I know a couple of Democrats that voted for McCain because they didn't want a black man in the White House. That made me think less of them.

So far im not seeing a lot of promise on any of these fronts...

No, presidents don't make the laws, but they can use their publicity to get congress to do the right thing if they so choose...

Who decides what is the right thing, your idea of the right thing? mine? the politicians, the experts called in to work on a solution?

No offense to you Drivin, and not dismissing your idea, I'd probably want to try the experts first. I don't know that we as civilians have the entire picture that those in government have access to. Maybe if i had the luxury of tons of time and no personal responsibilities I would have the time to figure out how things work, but I don't, so I have to rely on media and public opinion, neither of which are always coherent.

Just before this character was elected there was a young woman on the news and she was dancing in the street because, "Obama gonna pay my rent and my gas and lights! Weeee!" What can I say?

Mmmmkay fair enough.

On that front i would have to ask, what constitutes one as an expert? And why are some "experts" agreeing with me, and some completely disagreeing?

I still accept the fact that i could very well be wrong.

But, if Bush was wrong, and Obama follows the same policies that destroyed G.W., should that not point us towards the same distrust we had in him? Or perhaps G.W. wasn't as bad as we all thought?

Hell, anything is possible.

As opposed to every other presidents promises they never kept?

Welcome to captialism, they don't care as long as they can make money. Your vote doesn't count, if it comes to money. Your voice makes no sound, if it comes to money. You're against it? They have enough money to make sure other people don't care. Kind of sucks...doesn't it?

This is where we find time to educate ourselves. It's amazing how much we can get done in a day, if we work. Perhaps more time listening to reasoning, and doing your own research instead of listening to public opinion or the media at all?

Until then;
Don't worry slave. Your masters will take care of you. You hope...

"Sometimes it is said that man cannot be trusted with the government of himself. Can he, then be trusted with the government of others? Or have we found angels in the form of kings to govern him? Let history answer this question."
Thomas Jefferson


I must say, why so many people were uncomfortable with the government running their lives a couple ears ago, and obviously support that concept now, is a mystery to me.

Perhaps we managed to replace all the corrupt powers with "angels in the form of kings" within a years time.

It's a good thing we have the media to do our thinking for us...

(BTW research the Councel on Foreign Relations)

Other peoples nutty actions have no reflection on Obama unless one prefer's to see it that way.

Your asking me what constitutes an expert. Ack!! Ok well, maybe a thorough knowledge of how things work in a particular area. Of course that could mean that those same experts use that knowledge to do the opposite... ugh so one never really knows. I also accept the fact that I could be wrong too and can only hope that there are very good reasons for some of their actions.

Bush was still useless to me, but Obama carrying out some of his policies doesn't mean bush was right, it just means that we can't back out the way Obama had originally thought. I suspect that he learned more of the inner workings when he was finally in there and there are reasons why some of Bush's policies have to be dealt with carefully. That said, I don't personally think we should be in Afghanistan at all, I think the leadership there is using us, but again I am no expert.

But that doesn't mean that I think Obama was a liar or incompetent because there had to be things he could not know until he was in.

If that makes me naive, so be it, just not willing, after only a few months to call his leadership anything until I see some results.

Hell I gave Bush a chance even though I thought he was completely wrong for this country.

Drivin, I do what I can, and you would not believe how much I can fit in a day. I don't suspect the media as much as some do, I can tell the difference between bs and logic in most cases and the media has enough if you look for it. Public opinion? You are saying that the public bloggers and posters are the experts, when they are as divided as Washington? At least in Washington they do have access to experts even if the experts turn out to be as corrupt as those seeking them.

Is this how we get educated. Ignore the media because we are suspicious, then go online and confirm our suspicions because some will post and agree with our suspicions?

If we as the public where that smart, we would have figured out how to govern ourselves with out Washington, though I suspect even that is not possible because we ultimately think too differently and in most cases don't even like each other enough to find common ground, Sadly.

You could be very right in you take on all this Drivin. And I could be completely wrong, the problem is that neither of us knows for certain. Can we at least agree on that? Or no?

I think that the woman is a nutcase living in la la land.

She was but the Palin / McCain campaign used it to prove Obama was inexperienced or worse, just didn't work.

It didn't work because it has nothing to do with Obama.

Of course but that did not stop them from making the association.

I'm sure her nutty reaction was due to one of Obama's eloquent speeches.

Hmm..don't expect the government to change anything. If you want things changed, you gotta do it, not the government.

If you think back in history, most revolutionary figures were not part of the government, many were actually anti-government. If Thomas Jefferson would be alive today, he would be labeled as a "right wing extremist" and he would be on the FBI's list of terrorists, I'm sure.

I saw him speak in St. Louis. 100,000 people were there.

He talked about hard work, change, responsibility, the economic crisis, work like our future depended on it, and more. He didn't say anything to make me feel like that nutty women felt.

Yes, i can say we agree that neither one of us have enough information to actually know anything for certain. What bother's me is the fact that the way things are run, you know, the mathematics behind it, seems to be kept secret.

But, i do think people should seek to govern themselves. If we always turn to our Uncle Sam, we will never learn anything as a people.

Life can never be perfect. It is a physical impossibility. but i think we will never reach our fullest potential if we always turn to a few to make decisions for us all.