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| Topic: I Create Evil | |
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said God
Isaiah 45:7 |
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would stand to reason...
If he created ALL things. |
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let me set you straight, he says..... i create all things good.
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let me set you straight, he says..... i create all things good. Guess I'll never be set straight... IF he is as has been said... All things. Good is only half the equation. Evil must be part of all things or exist not. |
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let me set you straight, he says..... i create all things good. No, it says "I form the light, and create darkness; I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things." KJV Doesn't say anything about creating evil as part of all things good. |
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Edited by
Bushidobillyclub
on
Wed 07/22/09 04:06 PM
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let me set you straight, he says..... i create all things good. No, it says "I form the light, and create darkness; I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things." KJV Doesn't say anything about creating evil as part of all things good. I find "true believers" tend to stop at what they are told and rarely crack open the actual book unless told which page by some authority. This also included not knowing other bibles with different translations exist. What I found interesting is that far more translations use evil instead of an alternate reading AND the only versions that do not use the word evil are the American versions . . . hmmm. New International Version (©1984) I form the light and create darkness, I bring prosperity and create disaster; I, the LORD, do all these things. New American Standard Bible (©1995) The One forming light and creating darkness, Causing well-being and creating calamity; I am the LORD who does all these. GOD'S WORD® Translation (©1995) I make light and create darkness. I make blessings and create disasters. I, the LORD, do all these things. King James Bible I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things. American King James Version I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things. American Standard Version I form the light, and create darkness; I make peace, and create evil. I am Jehovah, that doeth all these things. Bible in Basic English I am the giver of light and the maker of the dark; causing blessing, and sending troubles; I am the Lord, who does all these things. Douay-Rheims Bible I form the light, and create darkness, I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord that do all these things. Darby Bible Translation forming the light and creating darkness, making peace and creating evil: I, Jehovah, do all these things. English Revised Version I form the light, and create darkness; I make peace, and create evil; I am the LORD, that doeth all these things. Webster's Bible Translation I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things. World English Bible I form the light, and create darkness. I make peace, and create calamity. I am Yahweh, who does all these things. Young's Literal Translation Forming light, and preparing darkness, Making peace, and preparing evil, I am Jehovah, doing all these things.' Here is a classic apologist "reason" for this passage, note the contradictions Why does Isaiah 45:7 say that God created evil? Isaiah 45:7 God create evil Question: "Why does Isaiah 45:7 say that God created evil?" Answer: Isaiah 45:7 in the King James Version reads, “I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.” How does Isaiah 45:7 agree with the view that God did not create evil? There are two key facts that need to be considered. (1) The word translated “evil” is from a Hebrew word that means “adversity, affliction, calamity, distress, misery.” Notice how the other major English Bible translations render the word: “disaster” (NIV, HCSB), “calamity” (NKJV, NAS, ESV), and “woe” (NRSV). The Hebrew word can refer to moral evil, and often does have this meaning in the Hebrew Scriptures. However, due to the diversity of possible definitions, it is unwise to assume that “I create evil” in Isaiah 45:7 refers to God bringing moral evil into existence. (2) The context of Isaiah 45:7 makes it clear that something other than “bringing moral evil into existence” is in mind. The context of Isaiah 45:7 is God rewarding Israel for obedience and punishing Israel for disobedience. God pours out salvation and blessings on those whom He favors. God brings judgment on those who continue to rebel against Him. “Woe to him who quarrels with his Master” (Isaiah 45:9). That is the person to whom God brings “evil” and “disaster.” So, rather than saying that God created “moral evil,” Isaiah 45:7 is presenting a common theme of Scripture – that God brings disaster on those who continue in hard-hearted rebellion against Him. Anyone who can note the contradiction win the game! |
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 "GOD" is above humans petty notions of good and evil
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Edited by
Redykeulous
on
Wed 07/22/09 08:27 PM
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This is just another picture which presents the parodox existing in the Devine Command Theory.
God is good - this is all that God is, there is no room in the dogmatic view of God for there to be anything but good. So when God does anything it must be good, becasue all that can come from God is good. So if God creates “adversity, affliction, calamity, distress, misery or woe, its all good and hense the paradox takes shape. God thinks these things are good, we see them as evil but God cannot create evil therefore rationalization is required to calm the dissonance and the dogmatic responce is that evil is what man does. But there is an even bigger problem with this rationalization, God created man - man must be good, for God can only create good!!! Now those who say man has free will, are being extremely selective in reading scripture, for one only has to read the rest of Isaiah to realize, God interferes and preempts free will on a regular basis. Oddly, this is rarely recognized, but then again when one must maintain the number of rationalizations required to hold Biblical beliefs, I'm sure it can all be quite confusing. |
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"GOD" is above humans petty notions of good and evil Do not kill! Kill the disbelievers! |
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and we created the bible. go figure.
people = #1 producer of evil prejudice, hate, scorn, malice - all of these are bi-products of human emotions. thus, if humans did not exist, there would be no prejudice. the bible, once again, the most misinterpreted book EVER. |
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Evil and Sin by their true definitions are anything that is against the will of GOD. GOD does not create evil in the way that the OP is suggesting. But GOD will allow evil to come upon a person or nation if they turn away from him.
If we are hell bent (pun intended) on finding some "inconsitency" with the Bible, there are a number of places to find those. I suspect that people who make these threads are not seeking any real truth or explanation. I'm not the type to say "I will pray for you" or " I hope the Holy Spirit opens your eyes" I say: "How ironic that the one you dont belive in gave you the free will to not believe in him...or his Word" |
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Evil and Sin by their true definitions are anything that is against the will of GOD. GOD does not create evil in the way that the OP is suggesting. But GOD will allow evil to come upon a person or nation if they turn away from him. If we are hell bent (pun intended) on finding some "inconsitency" with the Bible, there are a number of places to find those. I suspect that people who make these threads are not seeking any real truth or explanation. I'm not the type to say "I will pray for you" or " I hope the Holy Spirit opens your eyes" I say: "How ironic that the one you dont belive in gave you the free will to not believe in him...or his Word" Ironic? I'd call it evil, making sentient lifeforms w/ free will knowing full well that a certain percentgage will, as you say, turn away from him, and roast in Hell forever and ever. |
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Evil and Sin by their true definitions are anything that is against the will of GOD. GOD does not create evil in the way that the OP is suggesting. But GOD will allow evil to come upon a person or nation if they turn away from him. If we are hell bent (pun intended) on finding some "inconsitency" with the Bible, there are a number of places to find those. I suspect that people who make these threads are not seeking any real truth or explanation. I'm not the type to say "I will pray for you" or " I hope the Holy Spirit opens your eyes" I say: "How ironic that the one you dont belive in gave you the free will to not believe in him...or his Word" Ironic? I'd call it evil, making sentient lifeforms w/ free will knowing full well that a certain percentgage will, as you say, turn away from him, and roast in Hell forever and ever. I agree with you,in the the sense that GOD does allow things to happen that I know full well he could stop. I dont claim to understand dammnation (hell). We burn in hell (or just plain suffer) for erternity? Thats harsh! Even I say: "Why cant a person(who is not saved) just die and be gone?" That seems fair at least. There are questions that I just dont have a good answer for. I would say to you: That you, just like me, have heard the good news (The Gospel of Christ)and we have the option of accepting or rejecting that gift. So both of us cant say that GOD did us wrong or was evil to us. We both have the means for salvation. |
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Evil and Sin by their true definitions are anything that is against the will of GOD. GOD does not create evil in the way that the OP is suggesting. But GOD will allow evil to come upon a person or nation if they turn away from him. If we are hell bent (pun intended) on finding some "inconsitency" with the Bible, there are a number of places to find those. I suspect that people who make these threads are not seeking any real truth or explanation. I'm not the type to say "I will pray for you" or " I hope the Holy Spirit opens your eyes" I say: "How ironic that the one you dont belive in gave you the free will to not believe in him...or his Word" Well then... We can not know the diference between evil and good by this reasoning... WE HAVE NO CLUE WHAT THE WILL OF GOD IS. |
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Evil and Sin by their true definitions are anything that is against the will of GOD. GOD does not create evil in the way that the OP is suggesting. But GOD will allow evil to come upon a person or nation if they turn away from him. If we are hell bent (pun intended) on finding some "inconsitency" with the Bible, there are a number of places to find those. I suspect that people who make these threads are not seeking any real truth or explanation. I'm not the type to say "I will pray for you" or " I hope the Holy Spirit opens your eyes" I say: "How ironic that the one you dont belive in gave you the free will to not believe in him...or his Word" Ironic? I'd call it evil, making sentient lifeforms w/ free will knowing full well that a certain percentgage will, as you say, turn away from him, and roast in Hell forever and ever. I agree with you,in the the sense that GOD does allow things to happen that I know full well he could stop. I dont claim to understand dammnation (hell). We burn in hell (or just plain suffer) for erternity? Thats harsh! Even I say: "Why cant a person(who is not saved) just die and be gone?" That seems fair at least. There are questions that I just dont have a good answer for. I would say to you: That you, just like me, have heard the good news (The Gospel of Christ)and we have the option of accepting or rejecting that gift. So both of us cant say that GOD did us wrong or was evil to us. We both have the means for salvation. If your assumption is true, that merely hearing about this God person defines whether or not someone gets to choose to accept and go to Heaven or not accept and go to Hell, then I submit that all true believers should do the honorable thing and destroy all references and depictions of this God from the whole of the history of mankind and then commit suicide. That way, all succeding generations will never have heard of this God and therefore get a free pass unto Heaven. If you don't, then ipso facto, every time you tell someone about God, and they don't "see the light", as it were, you are sentencing them to Hell, via God. |
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"Out between right doing and wrong doing there is a field, Ill meet you there."
Rumi |
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Ive never seen anyone change their views on GOD, spiritual things, etc based on what someone else told them on the internet. I like to pitch in my two pennies, maybe respond to a question about my views and then leave it at that.
I know many of the things I say make people want to claw their own eyes out with frustration, sometimes. So far, the people responding to my posts have been very civil. I appreciate that. |
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Strange! that no one has ever been persecuted by the church for believing God bad, while hundreds of millions have been destroyed for thinking him good. The orthodox church never will forgive the Universalist for saying "God is love." It has always been considered as one of the very highest evidences of true and undefiled religion to insist that all men, women and children deserve eternal damnation. It has always been heresy, to say, "God will at last save all" |
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Edited by
Bushidobillyclub
on
Mon 07/27/09 04:55 PM
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If your assumption is true, that merely hearing about this God person defines whether or not someone gets to choose to accept and go to Heaven or not accept and go to Hell, then I submit that all true believers should do the honorable thing and destroy all references and depictions of this God from the whole of the history of mankind and then commit suicide. That way, all succeding generations will never have heard of this God and therefore get a free pass unto Heaven. If you don't, then ipso facto, every time you tell someone about God, and they don't "see the light", as it were, you are sentencing them to Hell, via God. I second this! I agree with you,in the the sense that GOD does allow things to happen that I know full well he could stop. I dont claim to understand dammnation (hell). We burn in hell (or just plain suffer) for erternity? Thats harsh! Even I say: "Why cant a person(who is not saved) just die and be gone?" That seems fair at least. There are questions that I just dont have a good answer for. I would say to you: That you, just like me, have heard the good news (The Gospel of Christ)and we have the option of accepting or rejecting that gift. So both of us cant say that GOD did us wrong or was evil to us. We both have the means for salvation. As far as worrying about changing someones beliefs on the internet, that is an appeal to consequences, I try to ignore logical fallacies myself and present my arguments without such appeals in mind. I posted this only as a means to explore the words in the bible and the VERY apparent logical inconsistencies that arise from common beliefs. All believers I know shrug off such inconsistencies with the magic wand of god works mysterious ways, feel free to do the same . . . |
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Strange! that no one has ever been persecuted by the church for believing God bad, while hundreds of millions have been destroyed for thinking him good. The orthodox church never will forgive the Universalist for saying "God is love." It has always been considered as one of the very highest evidences of true and undefiled religion to insist that all men, women and children deserve eternal damnation. It has always been heresy, to say, "God will at last save all" |
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