Oceans you asked,

My question is about the Uniform Code of Military Justice. As I
understand it, it is applicable to all members of the US military, and
taught to each incoming member of the military. Among other things, it
asserts that engaging in torture is prohibited, and it instructs members
of the military to refuse to carry out illegal orders.

Does the UCMJ then not counter the important argument you make that
members of the US military are indoctrinated to blindly obey any order
given to them? Does the 'blind obedience' demanded of soldiers on the
one hand and the UCMJ on the other hand not leave soldiers in an
untenable position?

Yes it does counter the argument, and in many cases soldiers have found
it to be untenable. It is an instruction contained in the UCMJ that is a
public relations contradiction to the instruction also contained in the
UCMJ, to obey all orders. Isnt it? I think it is this untenable position
that finds many soldiers in a legal predicament like that of Abu'grave
and the recent Marine headlines of civilian deaths (murder?), or the
incidence of the same charge on the squad from the 101st where they shot
the Iraqi's and claimed he was trying to escape (who knows). We place
these young men in these positions, where they face life threatening
fear, with contradictions and choices to make that no 19 yr old man
should ever be faced with. We dont even expect them to be responsible to
buy alchol in most states. Therefore, we should not expect them to make
the responsible decision every time. The military might provide
excellent training, but they can not add maturity. That my friend takes
years of living. Who was it that said the most dangerous thing in the
world was a 19 yr old boy with a loaded weapon and a fear for his life?
(Vietnam era)

being intolerant of others, and fighting your cause with words, is still
fighting, and begets more fighting with words, then theres the peace
rallys, and protest, and marches, which leads to fighting with fist,
then knifes, then guns, then bombs, and all because you ranted your
words and we intolerant of others.

oh the hypocricy of it all...........woes me.

vibes? smoke? escaping reality

whatever.

Geneva Conventions!

A prisoner of war is entitled to certain conditions and treatement.

The United States signed those conventions.

Ah but some say! These are Terrorist some say! Scum and Worse! They
do not deserve that status some say!

I say WE WENT ON WORLD WIDE TELEVISION AND DECLARED WAR ON THEM That
makes any we capture Prisoners of War by our own words.

theres a lot to that geneva convention

to bad they dont hold the terrorist to the same standards as they do the
handcuffed nation trying to fight simply for the right to be ourselves.
isnt they why they hate us, we're the evil americans with all our
opulence and deserve to be 'taken down a few notches'

and yet we go on, OBEYING those convention rules of war.

then people want to bring up some , ooops , humilating photos that were
taken- hey its better than what they do, wasnt our guys headless body
just found, and he was a 'prisoner of war', oir they say, the guys at
gitmo are being treated unfairly because theyre not given the rights of
an american citizen...theyre getting more rights than people like john
mccain got during the five years he was in a vietnamese prison camp,
beaten , tortured by god only knows what kind of horrific means.

so yes, please do sympathize that the world has turned to crap, you can
even sympathize with the poor, poor, poor terrorist, and continue to
mark the uniforms of the headless with your spit, if thats what it takes
to show your humanity to the world. your hatred of a republican
president has in my opinion caused you to willingly sell your souls.
deny it three times doesnt matter, i really dont care anymore.

final post on this from me, yea's!!! im sure

Davinci,
That story was too real, we had a similar instance.
We were on an ambush training exercise, and while waiting for the enemy
to come. Someone decided to smoke a cigg., cupping it thinking they were
too smart to get caught. After the Ambush, the DI called us all to fall
in and *****ed. He had seen the cigg and obviously knew who it was, but
he wanted us to tell on the guy. We were in our 12 week at Ft. Benning
and knew the consequences of tatteling on a fellow soldier so no one
said a word.
Our punishment was to walk all night and all the next day without sleep
in a circle, maybe a mile per lap, and every time we made a lap we were
required to walk through a swamp, (better not get your weapon wet,)up to
our necks. The month was DEC., and although we were in Ga. the
temperature was 37 degrees. I dont know how many miles we walked that
night, but I'll never forget it.
When we finally were forgiving by the DI,(or he was satisfied we had
suffered enough) we road marched 25 miles back to Garrison. Never
sleeping this whole time, I know Marines think they are tough, but The
U.S. Army Infantry are not pansies either. Oh the memories!!!

Did not say I was sempathetic with them.

Most of the 'enemys' we have had do not hold to the Geneva Conventions.
To Bad So Sad.

We however should.

AB, for once I agree with you.

any one who considers any war any soldier to be worthy of space on this
planet is an idiot. it appears to me this planet is covered with
imbecilic,wazzock, morons with their heads up their arses,concerened
only with their own selfish greeds americans have sucked the guts out of
the earth and you still think it your right to take more go ahead
consume be silent and then die,idiots

get some rest... I hope you sleep well!!

you see me tonite with an ilegal [that a sick bird] smile, it dont cost
very much butt it lasts a long while. so will ya please tell the man i
didnt kill anyone,im just havin some fun well done.

Hey Kari. how's the hangover this morning?

armydoc you are so right on with your thoughts!! I saw many of the
veterans paperwork they had to fill out AFTER being let go from
CAPTIVITY by the vietnamese, the germans and many other incidents where
that Geneva Convention played no part in their treatment as prisoners.
The Geneva Convention is a lovely thing for sure but just sitting in my
living room watching hostages getting DECAPITATED by terrorists just
proves they dont give a rats arse about our "geneva convention".
No..thats just la la land to them. Those whining about horrible
treatment at our detention centers are getting free medical,
DENTAL..gee..i could really use a dentist but cannot afford one,
clothing, hot showers and HUMANE TREATMENT. What i read and what i
actually heard from VETERANS here at my va hospital was far from the
treatment these prisoners are whining about. Jimmy Carter was a blooming
IDIOT for giving away the PANAMA CANAL. Just ask any WW2 veteran. I may
not support alot of things but i DO support what bush is doing and I DO
support my troops fighting over there right now. Rock on armydoc. and
happy memorial day to all the veterans here!

thats the beauty of the herb superb zap i can smoke my head off never
had a hangover yet and ive been smokin pot since i was 17,drink any more
than half a bottle of wine and i turn into a legless gibbering idiot
like you mate and i get a fuken hangover t boot ive
only got 1 brain cell you know.

well sister you and i are like chalk and cheese your not my type dont
mail me please.

ok ...this is degenerating....ahahhahahhahahahhhaaa

Karizman...c'mon..we or at least enough of us KNOW you are in there, so
enough with the mad fool routine....ok? if i say pleeeease? lol

i've smoked enough of mother's sweet herb to also know, that it does not
need effect the nature of how you think or write, and if you smoke as
much as you try to make us think ,then you would be even more adept at
lucidity than not ....so we know you're messin with us

guys..yea even you doc.....look at the thread..let's all get a grip
here...

we are not going to solve whichever version is true in the moments it
takes to have a dialogue and exchange with one another here behind our
keyboards.....so rather than making a mini series of what's going on out
there , right here in our little virtual reality , let's chill with the
personal jabs....

we agree to disagree...













but i am always right

im not jokin alex im a basket case when it comes to
the herb superb hope ya dont hate me

naaaaaaaaaaaaaa i just don't believe you

that photo of yours still makes me go a bit wobbly at the knees

imagine.................

thats about all ican do i guess i guess i can
dream