EDUCATE THE STUPID BARSTARDS SO THEY ALL REALIZE THE STUPIDITY OF ANY
FUKEN WAR IF YOU DONT HAVE ANY FUKEN GUNS AND NO FUKIN SOLDIERS YOU WONT
HAVE ANY FUKEN WARS.HUMAN BEINGS ARE STILL GROVELLING IN THE SWAMP OF
BARBARIZM.FIX EVERY MANS NEEDS WITH ALL THE WASTED MONEY ON WAR WATT THE
**** IS WRONG WITH EVERY BODY YOU WAR MONGERS AND GLORYFIERS MAKE ME SO
I WANNA PUKE ALL EVER THE FUKEN LOT OF YOU.

How about keeping the language on an intelligent level.

I can only speak for my three children, and they are all well educated.
My oldest son is attending college to become an architect. Your level of
maturity and education is demonstrated in your post, pal. Take the log
out of your own eye. By the way, you wouldn't happen to be one of shadow
eagle's multiple personalities, would you?

I dont think bibby wakes up with hatred..I think he's frustrated like a
lot of us..big difference

permenate bases? hmmm... have to look into that one. even if it is true
i'd say this, we have maintained bases in germany now for 62 years after
WWII, we have maintained bases in japan for 62 years after WWII. doesnt
mean we're plundering those countries resources, they allowed their
countries to be used or manipulated by crazed men, and when we defeated
those men we left a base there. why did we do that, well most of you
would know by your history studies that it took the US(mainly but with
some help from others)about 12 years AFTER the war to weed out the nazi
party who was engaged in a similar type insurgeny. It didnt take as long
in japan to weed out the insurgent types (they are honorable people
steeped with tradition- in my opinion). So why the bases- hell it was
part of the treaty they signed, and you would counter no one signed a
treaty in iraq- and i would say thats why we're still fighting, duh. Why
so many think that the Iraqi people are above the likes of the Germans
and Japanese is beyond me. The ones I have met who had honor were few
and far inbetween, lazy men for the most part who rest on the backs of
their women who do the work, and receive nothing but a demeaned
exhistance as a substandard human, because she is not a man. We have
been forced to fight the insurgency there with our hands tied behind our
backs all for the sake of political correctness. I truely wonder what
would happen there if we had some true gutted general types in the form
of a Patton or McAuthur who would and could and really should tell the
congress to shut the hell up and quit trying to run a war from the
capital building. You cant on one hand say that a problem needs fixed,
and then on the other say- but we're not going to let you fix it we only
want you to pretend to try and fix it. The day that we let people who
have NO vested intrest in seeing us succeed tell us what to do, was the
day that we ceased to be a sovereign nation with independent will. Sold
our souls so that we could participate in a popularity contest with
people that dont even like us. Its like sticking around at a party that
you know your not invited to, your not welcomed to be there sipping 5000
dollar glass champaigne with pretend people for the sake of
sounding/looking important. We could have been in and out of iraq, the
reason we werent i lay blame at the feet of the kennedy's, kerry's,
clitton's, and the rest of them who voted for it before against it, I'd
also blame the senior advisors who rushed into a war with no real clue
how to win it after the major battle for it was won(the insurgency
stupid people like a colin powell and yes even tommy franks). So now we
are there, weve been there, and a bunch of tree hugging spotted owl
loving carbon dioxide fearing beauty show pagent want to be's want us to
leave a job undone, to cut and run, and show the world that indeed
america is weak minded and can be pushed over like a little school girl
for the sake of making ourselves look as inept as the rest of them so
that they dont 'feel' so bad about themselves.
bltch moan and complain, voice your opposition all you would like, im
pretty sure that based on our track record as a country all you are
doing is actually strengthening our resolve- we will not cower to those
who wish us to fear them or who want us to be tilled under the soil like
a great civilization of the past ie. romans, greeks or hell even
britian. The troops are not coming home anytime soon, get used to it, a
base should be left there, hell I'd probably put about eight there
around the border with one huge one right in the middle. Yes the Iraqi
people have a huge amount of pride when it comes to how they are seen,
but not so much in how they act, bases would make them seem weak, well
guess whay, they are, is that our fault, no it is theirs. displaced
blame doesnt displace the truth. we will succeed with the mission of
stablizing the country of iraq, and the middle east in a whole, we will
carry you kicking and screaming as always, to that goals end, and in the
end will we be thanked or slapped by the ungrateful people who have
gained some more civility and stopped squat shltting in a hole whipping
with their hands. only time will tell.
thank you for reading this and for the onslaught of degradation that is
sure to follow. the republican combat medic.


doc

I understand. I'm sure we are all frustrated but running around flailing
our arms proclaiming the sky is falling offers nothing and solves
nothing, short of appearing to others to be slightly unhinged. (this
coming from me of all people)

Fire in the hole Doc! Yew con do eet!

mtironroses, I agree with you..and others. Lets support the troops and
give them everthing they need to accomplish their job , so they can come
home.
This is not a personal attack on Bibby, but I cant understand, since he
lives in canada, why he is so involved in the war in Iraq.. there are no
canadian troops in that country.. and If he was american, when did he go
to canada? In the 60s 70s...when a numer of american went there to
escape the draft?

Doc, I read every word of your unabridged 'set em straight' counter.
I would like to add to what you have said,

Not only do we continue to maintain bases in countries we were
previously at war with, but we have returned, in accordence with peace
treaties several lands and bases, in better condition than the wars left
them in. Not only that, but we did not CHANGE or eliminated any
religious convictions while there. In fact, in at least the case of
Japan, we learned a great respect for their culture, one so revered by
us that we hold it up for reference. We can change too. Sometimes a
contstant reminder of others, in close proximity, such as the poeple
living on a base, encourage others to know us as individuals, and find a
respect for us as a people, that they did not have before.

It is our troops, who, by their actions and presence, will endowe those
distant lands with a sense of us as a people. This is why we support
our troops.

As Doc said, they are there, they are going, and it doesn't seem to be
any difference in that situation any time soon. So impeach the
president for his wrong actions, but not simpley for the sake of ending
this conflict, but rather to fill the position with one who will
'proceed' with greater respect, logic and knowledger. In this way too,
we support our troops.

Who would be your choice redy?

zap you are an ignorant WAZZOCK so get fd

leave them in a better state red BULLSHHIITT.

Wazzok? Hmmmm. okay, I see on your profile that you like to read the
dictionary. So how's that workin' out for you? Wazzok eek zik form
jokka, per iggy u fart breath. Not sure what that means but I care about
it as much as I do your sad sad existence. Here's one to look up:
diatribe.

thanks red.

there is more important things to than impeach a morally convicted man
whom we elected and who has executed the job of the president just fine
for me. of course thats my opinion, you may have a different one.

forgot to mention that we didnt just take the land to build those bases
on, we actually pay the country we're in to be there, and in some cases
those bases support the mjority of the local economy and if we shut them
down then that area of the host country will colaspe. its the same in
the states too, you close a base and you shut down entire towns, its
crazy, so in a sense they are feeding themselves off of my dime which
you all and myself pay me. everyone wants something.

you are wacko doc there is absolutly nothing productive asociated with
the war machine blow it up, build it up, blow it up ,dig a hole fill the
hole?? do watt ya told by someone even more wacko than you ,then dig a
bigger hole and fill it with the dead.have a look at a few statistics
mate and see watt it cost to keep you in a uniform mate you and all your
mates are killing your country financially if you think you are doing
something productive, dream on

Hi, Red,

I read this thread a few days ago and have been giving your question
quite a bit of thought.

I think there is only one way, really, to 'support our troops', and that
is by telling the truth. All else will just be deluding.

I meet regularly with returning soldiers and to a person they ask simply
for the truth about why we invaded and now occupy Iraq, about the
consequences to the US of having done so, and about its impact on the
Iraqis themselves. They feel that over there they couldn't see the
forest for the trees, and they thirst to understand the larger picture.
They know that thir indoctrination doesn't square with the reality, but
just how and why is something that they only start to think about when
they get back. They want the truth, and part of their anger is that
they know they aren't receiving it from the Army.

I know this is sensitive, but the politicians and their egos be damned.
Don't the troops deserve the truth? Haven't they earned it with their
blood? Will we as a society, together with our returning troops, be able
to face squarely what we have done?

The Viet Nam vets were left hanging when they got back, with on one side
false assertions of heroism and on the other side false accusations of
being baby-killers. This left lots of these vets in a moral quagmire and
as we all know some have not been able to recover. I hope we do better
by our Iraq vets, but in my opinion this can only happen if we all
embrace the reality of what Iraq has come to be.

Does this make sense? I know there aren't any easy answers to your
excellent question.

Oceans

Oceans - yes you make a lot of sense. I remember quite well the whole
scene of the VN years you speak of. Maybe it's because I remember, that
I am so trying to find a way to keep peace between those who are, loyal,
active, deticated and daring, employees of this countries armed forces
and the rest of us citizens. Far too often we connect the 'reason' or
the 'logic' of our governing officials agenda with those who are it's
warrioriers.

During those VN years, I mostly listened and was profoundly affected. I
was young and had older friends who went, some who chose to leave this
country and friends whose relatives were there in VN. I saw, heard and
felt the axe that was driven between those who served and those who did
not.

It was not over, when it was over. The suffering of a great many of
those men and women, both physically, mentally and emotionally, was
exacerbated by the treatment they were given and continued to recieve by
those who felt those soldiers denied humanity to support the fraud of
our government.

I NEVER, want to see this happen again. So THIS TIME, we have to
BELIEVE those who serve, do so with honor, with loyalty,and dedication,
and IT IS OUR JOB, HERE, to see that this government SERVES US by doing
right by those who sign over their life to perform a job in the name of
freedom. That is what our focus, the perspective of this country should
be.

We allow those who serve to give us their lives, in return it is our job
to make sure they are doing so for a just cause.

DOC - that's what all this talk is about.
Ocean, I don't know that it's necessary for our troops to know all the
wheres and whyfor's of the political agenda. They have enough to think
about on their job. It is OURS to know the where's and why's, It is
OURS to assure that this government does the right thing.

AND NEVER, should we make those who serve, feel it necessary to leave
thier country. NEVER should we pass of the disgrace and shame of a
misgoverned democracy to those who would offer thier life, in exchange
for the protection this government OWES these loyal warriors.

This is not supporting the government, it is about supporting our
warriors, they have made a pact with us, in exchange for their lives, we
promise them the causes will be worthy. It is our commitment to them,
that we will make this governments agenda a proper one so there can be
no qustion that their fight is a cause understood and supported by the
majority.

Our job descriptions in this matter are not the same. Those that remain
behind have another job, it is to keep, with honor, loyalty, and
dedication, the commitment we have made to each other, to do the jobs
with our own special talents to that end.

This is the time to reclaim our government, this is the time WE serve
our soldiers.

Bush is not giving us the answers we need to keep our commitment,
impeach the bstrd. We need answers to keep some integrity with this
world. We need answers and a solid singular voice with which to
maintian our freedoms and continue to provide the best this country can
offer to all the populations of this world.

These things we can do together, as our warriors provde the shield that
allows us to continue to seek the truth and wright the wrongs.

We can not dally in this effort. Our talks here, continue to bleed into
each others path, as we seek to find the right thing to do.

The right thing must start. Are you satisfied with what this government
headed by Bush is doing? Then be happy your are free to feel that way.
But if there is shame when light shines on a different truth, I hope it
is only a few who feel the shame and not those who fought to provide you
with your opinion.

For those who feel differently, the top is the president. No judgement
of the man is required, only judgement of the job of the service he was
to provide, of the commitment he made to serve. When questions arise
regarding his part of this bargain, we get no proper answers. That
calls for only one course of action.

Red, you have the hair on the back of my neck standing as I salute you.
Very kind.

Oh geez, there we go with the impeachment talk again. It's okay red, I
still think you are pretty cool.