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| Topic: When religion creates ignorance... | |
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Please look at the original post on this
While he allowed Daniel to stay with his parents, the judge gave the Hausers until Tuesday to get an updated chest X-ray for their son and select an oncologist. If the evaluation shows the cancer had advanced to a point where chemotherapy and radiation would no longer help, the judge said, he would not order the boy to undergo treatment. Seems to me the decision was to address the growing tumor Doctors have said Daniel's cancer had up to a 90 percent chance of being cured with chemotherapy and radiation. Without those treatments, doctors said his chances of survival are 5 percent. Daniel's parents have been supporting what they say is their son's decision to treat the disease with nutritional supplements and other alternative treatments favored by the Nemenhah Band. The son has a learning disability "My son is not in any medical danger at this point," Colleen Hauser testified at a court hearing last week. She also testified that Daniel is a medicine man and elder in the Nemenhah Band. a. The parents names are Colleen and Anthony, does this mean the kid himself is a "medicine man and elder"? b. She is right in saying he is not in medical danger as he was not being treated medically The family's attorney, Calvin Johnson, said Daniel made the decision himself to refuse chemotherapy, but Brown County said he did not have an understanding of what it meant to be a medicine man or an elder. This is basically saying the kid is treating the cancer by himself... Court filings also indicated Daniel has a learning disability and can't read. Great, so this kid can't read so whatever he is fed by the Mom becomes the truth? Again, he's the medicine man and elder? As to the Nemenhah Band themselves, they are new organization that hold beliefs similar to that of local Native Americans as well as the Mormon Church — although neither group recognizes the Nemenhah Band as a part of them. Their leader, Philip “Cloudpiler” Landis has a criminal past and spent a few months in jail several years ago for charges of fraud. After leaving jail he started the group which he allows others to join for a small fee of $250. To top it off, whenever members of the Nemenhah Band get sick they also have to pay Landis for the natural medicines too. What church allows you to "join" for a fee? Oh, that's right, they're usually cults or con games. Now, from the update on the story where they have disappeared... "She should have gone to court," Landis said. "It's how we work these things out. You don't solve anything by disregarding the order of the judge." For some reason, she decides she does not want to listen to her spiritual guide? Anthony Hauser now agrees that Daniel needs to be taken back to a doctor for re-evaluation for the best treatment, said Calvin Johnson, an attorney for the parents. So now, having evaluated the situation, the Father even wants to reconsider. Seems to me he wants the kid to have a better chance of surviving. The family's doctor, James Joyce, testified by telephone that he examined Daniel on Monday, and that an X-ray showed his tumor had grown to the size it was when he was first diagnosed. "He had basically gotten back all the trouble he had in January," the doctor said. Joyce testified that he offered to make appointments for Daniel with oncologists, but the Hausers declined. He also said he tried to give Daniel more information about lymphoma but the boy, his mother and lawyer Susan Daya left in a rush. Since when does the damned lawyer go to the doctor with the patient. Before the conspiracy theory comes out, the lawyer could've been in the front of the office if there was a concern about a Gestapo like squad coming to take away "Elian" Daniel Hauser. This whole thing stinks. The father even wants things to be thought out now. Let me see, since you've argued about rights and gov't, will you now argue that the mom should have rights over the dad? What about neglect in the point that the kid can't read, yet believes he knows chemo will kill him and he's a medicine man? |
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Edited by
Redykeulous
on
Thu 05/21/09 06:44 PM
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Neglect Neglect is frequently defined in terms of deprivation of adequate food, clothing, shelter, medical care, or supervision. Approximately 21 States and American Samoa, Puerto Rico, and the Virgin Islands include failure to educate the child as required by law in their definition of neglect.5 Seven States further define medical neglect as failing to provide any special medical treatment or mental health care needed by the child.6 In addition, four States define as medical neglect the withholding of medical treatment or nutrition from disabled infants with life-threatening conditions. Nowhere in these definitions has anyone defined what "SPECIAL MEDICAL TREATMENT" is? The parents were providing special medical treatment. Point two: No state, no state supreme court can crass the boundaries of the U.S. Constitution. If the parents are, in effect, claiming sanctuary under the freedom of religion act then no state can be justified in prohibiting a parent from treating thier own child as they would treat themselves under similar condtions (based on thier religious beliefs). Point three: Any government web site that upholds that all AMA (American medical association) and FDA approved medical treatments are the only and best ones available is conforming to the FDA and the AMA. And if any of you buy the idea that the AMA and FDA function in YOUR best interest - then YOU are welcome to follow thier instructions implicitely. However, you would be the wiser if you did a lot of research at who runs those institutions, who they're in bed with and how often they change partners between themselves. Just for starters: pharmaceutical companies – the chemical companies (GMO, Monsanto, Dow, Dupont, etc) – the radiological industries. They ALL fund their OWN research and the FDA and the AMA add their approvals to their research - without conducting their own. Furthermore, outside research is almost always dispelled by all of these industries. Of course some very well known names have been known to use a revolving door - earning wages from one institution, then another, back to the first, to another and right into - government office... imagine that! This is why it takes so many years for the word to get into the mainstream and for people to complain - by then some NEW medical miricle treatment is being offerd, with the appropriate approval (of course). Now I don't expect the parent of this child to know all this - most people believe in the "system". So those of you who think any child under the age of 18 has a chance in h e ll in making an informed decision is not being realistic. But it shouldn't matter, the point is that every parent, barring known abuses, has a right to determine for themselves the forms of medical treatment they will deem appropriate for their own children. No other person, group, or government has the right to decide what is appropriate medical treatment for your children. In fact, I would personally say that every parent that feeds their children boxed and otherwise 'processed' foods are committing child abuse. But the FDA and the AMA think that genetically altering food, through radiation, and chemically treating crops, fields and feed for livestock causes no harm. If you agree with them, that there is no harm from these foods, even though there's no real nutritional value in them either - then keep feeding it to you kids. Because I don't have the right to take you to court and make you change how you 'treat' (feed) your child. Just as I don't right to detemine how you will 'treat' them medically when they become obese, diabetic, asthmatic, or have cancer. |
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Edited by
YouAndImake1
on
Thu 05/21/09 07:32 PM
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Nowhere in these definitions has anyone defined what "SPECIAL MEDICAL TREATMENT" is? Nice spin there, give it a name that you do not understand. The definition for what they are doing is "Naturopathy" The parents were providing special medical treatment. Special medical treatment is defined as when someone gets preferential treatment above and beyond due to wealth or stature. Point two: No state, no state supreme court can crass the boundaries of the U.S. Constitution. If the parents are, in effect, claiming sanctuary under the freedom of religion act then no state can be justified in prohibiting a parent from treating thier own child as they would treat themselves under similar condtions (based on thier religious beliefs). So let me get this straight here,,, if the parents believe through religion that using rattlesnake bites and hemlock will cure them of their ills, they have a right to give their child the same "cure". What if the proclaimed disease is human suffering in general and the only cure is death? That would make Jamestown ok? Point three: Any government web site that upholds that all AMA (American medical association) and FDA approved medical treatments are the only and best ones available is conforming to the FDA and the AMA. And if any of you buy the idea that the AMA and FDA function in YOUR best interest - then YOU are welcome to follow thier instructions implicitely. However, you would be the wiser if you did a lot of research at who runs those institutions, who they're in bed with and how often they change partners between themselves. Just for starters: pharmaceutical companies – the chemical companies (GMO, Monsanto, Dow, Dupont, etc) – the radiological industries. They ALL fund their OWN research and the FDA and the AMA add their approvals to their research - without conducting their own. Furthermore, outside research is almost always dispelled by all of these industries. Of course some very well known names have been known to use a revolving door - earning wages from one institution, then another, back to the first, to another and right into - government office... imagine that! This is why it takes so many years for the word to get into the mainstream and for people to complain - by then some NEW medical miricle treatment is being offerd, with the appropriate approval (of course). Now I don't expect the parent of this child to know all this - most people believe in the "system". So those of you who think any child under the age of 18 has a chance in h e ll in making an informed decision is not being realistic. But it shouldn't matter, the point is that every parent, barring known abuses, has a right to determine for themselves the forms of medical treatment they will deem appropriate for their own children. No other person, group, or government has the right to decide what is appropriate medical treatment for your children. In fact, I would personally say that every parent that feeds their children boxed and otherwise 'processed' foods are committing child abuse. But the FDA and the AMA think that genetically altering food, through radiation, and chemically treating crops, fields and feed for livestock causes no harm. If you agree with them, that there is no harm from these foods, even though there's no real nutritional value in them either - then keep feeding it to you kids. Because I don't have the right to take you to court and make you change how you 'treat' (feed) your child. Just as I don't right to detemine how you will 'treat' them medically when they become obese, diabetic, asthmatic, or have cancer. OK, so you say because parents are feeding their kids cereal, it's abuse but basically sentencing the kid through beliefs to death is ok... Gotcha...   |
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Naturopathy Principles
Naturopathic ideology focuses on naturally-occuring and minimally-invasive methods, trusting to the "healing power of nature." Such treatments as "synthetic" drugs, radiation, and major surgery are avoided, and rejection of biomedicine in favor of an intuitive and vitalistic conception of the body and nature is common. Prevention through stress reduction and a healthy diet and lifestyle is emphasized. The philosophy of naturopathic practice is self-described by six core values. Multiple versions exist in the form of the naturopathic doctor's oath,various mission statements published by schools or professional associations, and ethical conduct guidelines published by regulatory bodies: 1. First, do no harm; provide the most effective health care available with the least risk to patients at all times (Primum Non Nocere). 2. Recognize, respect and promote the self-healing power of nature inherent in each individual human being. (Vis Medicatrix Naturae, a form of vitalism). 3. Identify and remove the causes of illness, rather than eliminate or suppress symptoms (Tolle Causum). 4. Educate, inspire rational hope and encourage self-responsibility for health (Doctor as Teacher). 5. Treat each person by considering all individual health factors and influences. (Treat the Whole Person). 6. Emphasize the condition of health to promote well-being and to prevent diseases for the individual, each community and our world. (Health Promotion, the Best Prevention) This would be as vital to living a good life as living by the teachings of the Bible. It is a set of guidelines. It is not medicine by definition |
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besides everyone in my congregation knows that you can't cure cancer without rattlesnake venom
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besides everyone in my congregation knows that you can't cure cancer without rattlesnake venom I heard the side effects are killer... 
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COLUMBIA, S.C. (May 21) — A 555-pound South Carolina teen who disappeared with his mother after she was accused of neglecting his health was found with her Thursday at a laundry in Baltimore, authorities said.
Paramedics checked Alexander Draper, 14, before turning him over to the Maryland Department of Social Services, police said. http://news.aol.com/article/555-pound-boy-on-run/494733?icid=main|main|dl2|link4|http%3A%2F%2Fnews.aol.com%2Farticle%2F555-pound-boy-on-run%2F494733 http://mingle2.com/topic/show/225175 ---------------------------------------------------------------- imagine that when will it end i think someone may have said it will get worse if it is not stopped earlier in this thread hhhhhhmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm wonder who will be next (someone you know) [or maybe even someone in your family] |
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"The agency doesn't get involved in such cases based on a child's weight alone, but will take action in "cases where health care professionals believe a child is at risk of harm because a parent is neglecting to provide necessary medical care," DSS spokeswoman Marilyn Matheus said in a statement."
Imagine that - a country that protects its children. |
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Edited by
adj4u
on
Fri 05/22/09 10:30 AM
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Authorities said the teen was at a "stage of critical health risk," but wouldn't provide details about his medical condition beyond his weight, said Greenville County Sheriff's Lt. Shea Smith.
imagine that they wont tell what those things are maybe risks brought on by the weight yet the weight alone is not the issue |
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repost
 adj just said the same thing I did someone thinking like me....scarey Actually I usually think along the same line as you Rose. In this case, refusing to provide standard medical care is considered neglect. Subjecting the child to something that could injure him would be considered "endangerment". There is some overlap. Sitting a child near the edge of a cliff could be considered either. like I have said...I would do what I had to for my son....but there are people that think alternative medicine is healthier and better...and in some cases it is i am on the fence on this one and what should be done....i can see both sides i would suggest when the thought is borderline it is best to go by the rights as protected by the constitution do you want the state to run your medical treatment regardless of what you want this is a step in that direction if you need blood but the only blood available is from an advanced aids patient should you be forced to accept that blood (you could be under the state having the right to force medical care on you) The blood issue isn't a good analogy to me. We're talking about the life of a dependent child here. and who is the child dependent on |
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A child is depends on everybody.
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Edited by
smiless
on
Fri 05/22/09 11:35 AM
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When a child cries do we not try to soothe the mind,
instead we make things complicated when only one has to be kind When a child doesn't know do we not try to inform, but instead we are like sheep that follow the norm and when a child asks for a extra day of life do we not try to make it so without any strife Let us reflect on the kind and gentle smile of a child the heart innocent, unexperienced, helpful, and mild Sometimes the best decisions are those who don't guess but those who live and love them and don't think any less may we stop complicating life for a child when it just wants to play for life is truly short if you think about it so stop wasting this day Learn to love and learn to live for that is what we have to give |
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I still don't see this as neglect though IMO...but just throwing in more definitions lol
Alternative medicine: Healing arts not taught in traditional Western medical schools that promote options to conventional medicine that is taught in these schools.. An example of an alternative therapy is using a special diet to treat cancer instead of undergoing surgery, radiation, or chemotherapy that has been recommended by a Western physician. Complementary medicine is different from alternative medicine. Whereas complementary medicine is used together with conventional medicine, alternative medicine is used in place of conventional medicine. See also complementary medicine, conventional medicine. Conventional medicine: Medicine as practiced by holders of M.D. (medical doctor) or D.O. (doctor of osteopathy) degrees and by their allied health professionals, such as physical therapists, psychologists, and registered nurses. Other terms for conventional medicine include allopathy and allopathic medicine; Western medicine, mainstream medicine, orthodox medicine, and regular medicine; and biomedicine. from medterms.com |
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The Federal Office of CAM has spent over $90 million and has yet to publish one successful study indicating that CAM is useful.
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Consumers, complementary and alternative medicine (CAM)
i had to look up what that was lol |
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A child is depends on everybody. no that is not correct and you know it if it was then your neighbor could discipline your child without worry of being in trouble yer really reaching with that one the child is dependent on the one responsible for them and that is their parents |
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if this article is correct
the freedom of religion argument is gone and yes the court has a right to intercede msnbc news story ------------------------------------------------------------ ........... The parents had allowed a round of chemotherapy to be given, and that had proven very effective in shrinking his tumors. But now that his mother has seen that chemo is tough to endure, she wants to follow the beliefs of the Nemenhah Band, http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/30889308/ ........... ------------------------------------------------------------- you cant permit a treatment then because you do not like it stop the treatment and say it is against your beliefs if not chemo was permitted by the parent because of their religious belief i would still side with them but you can not argue belief for convenience and if you go back and read earlier post i made you will see i said basically the same thing way back in this thread in this case the mother is defiantly in the wrong if hte report of earlier treatment with chemo was permitted |
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The Federal Office of CAM has spent over $90 million and has yet to publish one successful study indicating that CAM is useful. because it is counter productive to the fda and the fda is usually run by former pharmaceutical company officers |
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Edited by
Lynann
on
Fri 05/22/09 10:53 PM
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So, the kid had one chemo treatment. Treatments for this type of cancer cures it around 90% of the time...okay..
Wonder what the win percentage is for the alternate therapy they are using. If the kid cannot read at his age (unless there is a learning difficulty* or some other issue) I would count that as abuse. But then, why bother learning to read when someone can tell you what to think? I don't feel like reading through this thread again so I have to ask. Have or do the parents now or in the past availed themselves of conventional medical treatment? *a learning disability...the phrase and diagnosis is highly over used these days. Many times the disability is lazy a$$ parents, tv, crappy diets and overcrowded schools. |
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Religion doesn't create ignorance. Ignorance creates religion, or at least what the ignorant call religion. Ignorance creates the perceived NEED for religion to explain that which there is no current explanation for.
The Chemo issue or any medical treatment versus so-called religious beliefs issue has nothing to do with God or religion, by anyone's deinition. It is simply a question whether spreading one's legs and squeezing out a creature, gives the one excreting the creature total and unfettered ownership and disposal rights over that creature as one has over a 2 x 4 purchased at Home Depot. The answer, in this country and culture is, NO it does not. One can buy a dog but may not legally torture that dog. One cannot leave a child in a closed car in Florida in July, even if they made that child and a person can not escape culpability for the death of a child by simply watching that child eaten by ants and not removing that child from the ant hill. It is not a religious question at all, but a simple matter of the limit of property and or parental rights. |
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