DOES ANYBODY KNOW THE ANSWER TO THE FOLLOWING QUESTION: .. Given that, clinically speaking, Consciousness is Awareness + Responsiveness to surroundings -- that is synonymous with Mind which seems to arrise from an interplay of processes in the brain (i.e. thoughts, perceptions, emotions, memory, imagination and will) -- WHY CAN'T THE SCIENTISTS MAP OUT THE ORIGINS OF CONSCIOUSNESS IN THE BRAIN, YET??? ********************************** ******************

Forget to eat lately?

Because brains don't fossilize. All we can tell from fossils is the size and shape of the skulls.

Knowing the minds of long dead critters is currently not possible.
Heck knowing the minds of living critters that don't speak is a pretty daunting task.

It always makes me laugh when non-scientists try to guess at the difficulty of a task.

Its like someone who has never coded a program trying to criticize a program for not having certain features, many times they do not understand the structure and function of the database that the program relies on and do not realize that some things just don't work . . .


Well it seems everyone just jumps to a conclusion willy nilly around here.

That is what I will not do. I am not saying you did not experience what you experienced. I ask questions to try to determine why you have come to the conclusion you have, and highlight why I would not conclude the same thing.

I have ridiculed no one.

If you feel bad becuase someone does not share an unsupported conclusion, then its YOU who needs to grow up along with HANDLEWITHCAUTION

never beleived in them till i was 18 and had a inncident, and that was not a figment of my imagination unless the same imagine was in others at the same time seeing the same stuff later on in my yrs there were other things in a different house that happened often, i told people they didnt beleive till they saw or heard it happen also at the same time the same things...

Things happen. When its verifiable that is called facts.

This still does not mean we get to come up with a conclusion. IE Ghosts. Facts don't equate to conclusions, and unknown does not equate to paranormal.

****Anytime someone here in this thread tries to allude to my experience they are only showing there own ignorance, YOU CANNOT POSSIBLY KNOW MY EXPERIENCE, NOR I YOURS. (PK, and HANDLEWITHCAUTION)

So please do us all a favor and stop with the unsupported assertions, its really demeaning and useless in the context of sharing experiences.

If all you want to do is share your experience then that's easy, just do that, if you want to convince someone then its apparent in follow up replies, after all why try to continue a conversation and start with personal attacks if your only goal is to share your experience.

Its clear that many people have experiences they cannot explain rationally, and when this experience, or there conclusion of the experience is questioned they get defensive and respond by attacking the person doing the questioning.

This is childish.

This is a science and philosophy forum, if you do not want to discuss science (that which we know and can be demonstrated) then you really need to ask yourself why you keep posting. Science is asking questions and presenting possible alternative conclusions.

If your motive is to share, then you have done that in your first post that explains the experience as you know it.

After that you must ask yourself what is your motive in continuing, if its to somehow understand then I applaud you and that requires setting up tests to explore these issues, many people wouldn't know where to start, I am happy to help if only people will stop with the name calling and actually realize MY MOTIVATIONS are to help myself, and others understand or find a way to accept the unknown without coming to an unsupported conclusion.


__________________________________________


A question for PK.

PK at first you said that this experience was a one time thing, not something you could setup tests or recording equipment.

But then later you said that friends would come over and become convinced . . .

So which is it, one time thing, or a reoccurring thing?

sometimes or once in a while while in bed I feel a presence Unknown ofcourse hovering over my bed. It scares me and i want it to leave. It usually happens a little passed midnight.

[A question for PK.

PK at first you said that this experience was a one time thing, not something you could setup tests or recording equipment.

But then later you said that friends would come over and become convinced . . .

So which is it, one time thing, or a reoccurring thing?






It was ongoing for a majority of the time I lived in the home until I left. The occurences didn't start until I had lived in the home for around three months. Before then, there was nothing. Occurences happened on a daily basis. It did not follow me and instances were specific to that location only. That's what I meant by one time.

I wish I had a location like that.

Do you still live there, or near there?




AHHHH, I think I understand the guts of your question. You mean where in the brain lies the seat consciousness, as if it has to be one specific part of the brain . . ..


The answer is that there is no seat of consciousness within the brain.

Consciousness is not a single thing. Its a patch quilt of a definition. Just as in your leading statement, consciousness is more then awareness, it includes all the facets of cognition, I liked your use of a "+" sign, very appropriate.

Read Julian Jaynes- the Origin of Consciousness in the breakdown of the BiCarmel Mind.

I will have to check that out, I have been reading Dan Dennett's "Consciousness Explained".

Finally, BETTER LATE THAN NEVER! I knew that men are slow...
... BUT YOU STILL DON'T GET IT
The question which most of the greate scientists are challenged with (WHO OBVIOUSLY FORGOT TO CONSULT WITH MR."KnowItAll", aka Bushidobillyclub) has nothing to do with the specific location! But rather with the the origin (although the terms are synonimous).

Judging from your initial response, you too are jumping to conclusions before comprehending the gist of a matter -- and then have the audacity of accusing others of being simple-minded...
I WISH YOU JUDGE YOURSELF AS HARSH AS OTHERS...

Why are you so abrasive?

I have never called you names, or made fun of you. Nor ever claimed to know it all.

When someone does not understand the meaning of a sentence that can be taken multiple ways the right thing to do is to try to reiterate using more descriptive language, most times its the fault of the ex plainer not the listener, language is far too general to be used flippantly and achieve any kind of detailed accuracy.

Quote me where I called you or anyone else simple minded.

Your just trying to get a rise . . .

I have answered both contexts of the question of origin that I can think of, perhaps you could explain what you meant by the question if I have failed to guess at it . . .

Really nice comback!

******** Frankly, dear, you've managed to disqualify yourself in my eyes -- WITH YOUR INITIAL DISRESPECTFUL MANNER (HAVING ASSUMED TO BE THE ONLY ONE IN HERE) AND BY BELITTLING EVERYBODY, OR SUGGESTING THEY STOP POSTING ALTOGETHER.. -- because, in your opinion, they aren't scientific enough -- I.E. WITH YOUR NASTY ATTITUDE!!! I MAY EXAGGERATE YOUR CALLING EVERYBODY "SIMPLE MINDED",
BUT YOUR DEMEANING EXCLAMATION, "LOVE THIS CROWD", MEANS THE SAME...

AND NOW YOU HAVE THE AUDACITY OF PLAYING A POLITE AND INTELLIGENT MEMBER? ? ? (AFTER MY EXPOSING YOUR ROTTEN NATURE...)

JUST BECAUSE YOU MISUNDERSTOOD MY QUESTION (AND, INITIALLY, TRIED TO SHRUG IT OFF) AND THEN SAYING

AHHHH, I think I understand the guts of your question

, doesn't mean my excusing you... (or care enough to clarify it for you!)

THUS, DON'T BE CONCERNED WITH MY POSTS ANYMORE BECAUSE, FRANKLY, I DO NOT CARE FOR YOUR PARTICULAR INADEQUATE OPINION -- SINCE YOU DO NOT HAVE ONE YET! ! ! * * * (MAY BE IN 10+ YEARS... as pkd1220 correctly noted!)

* * * THERE ARE MANY MORE MEMBERS YOU DON'T DESERVE BEING IN THE SAME SITE WITH ! ! ! * * *

Your problem my dear is that you see this as a conflict between me and you (or even the whole of the paranormal believing community). I still see it as just a thread on the paranormal, something worth discussing the facts.

I would be quite pleased if you no longer responded to my posts.

So thank you.

My comment about changing your point of view could apply to everyone. I certainly don't have the same opinion or views from 10 years ago. Everything we experience and learn is processed on an ongoing basis. That knowledge- then requires us to come to a conclusion based on our experiences to that point. We are ever evolving in our thoughts.

pkd1220:

How right you are, dear!
I only hope the skepticizm is also affected by time:
Going through life with a closed mind -- explaining every new phenomenon with the same pre-packaged conception -- and demeaning others because they dare sharing a point of view.. that's a huge hump to get off one's back (i.e. changing His nature)!

Nevertheless, it seems, progress wouldn't be possible without skeptics, who empower creative people proving their points...

Hey, looks like we owe Him a gratitude(?)!!!

Looks like a sound reflection to me...

I remember the time that I tried to bring my Thanksgiving turkey back to life with jumper cables