That's my point.

The parent's attorney stated they were seeking money for damages, what damages??? For learning some lyrics from a country song.

fran....some people think country is enough for therapy (i'm a fan myself) - maybe that's their problem....do away with country music lol. I do see your point. I am religious but I don't think any belief should be in the schools due to the numerous beliefs. But I do see that this is extreme....no matter what belief was song about (even if it's to a rock song lol) it was addressed....explain it to your child...move on with life. JMO

I respect that you have a differing opinion on this, as I do, I wouldn't automatically assume it's about the buck just because much of todays suits are about that. And I wouldn' be suprised if it was about the buck but that would not have been what I would find issue with, as i have already discribed. Anyway not wanting to start something. The itsy bitsy spider, yes that is trivial to me, but the other isn't, To me of course..

boo...as I just stated I don't think any belief were only one side is used is right in public schools. even teachers have moments of not thinking things through. she may have heard the song and thought it was catchy. I'm saying who knows. I don't find it extreme to sue though.

(country music) (explain it and move on)

I respect your opinion, but please maybe you can help me understand it:

Teacher teaches the song - In God We Still Trust
2 - parents of 3rd graders - complained about the song
the song was pulled from program
parents file a suit seeking damages - what damages?
I could be wrong but I doubt their kids were damaged in any way, shape or form.

Like yellowrose stated, parents could have just sat their kids down, explained why they felt or dont feel it's an appropriate song and leave it alone. (jmo)

I absolutely get your point of view, I really do. I do take exception in a world that is so constantly referring to religion that any Teacher of all people would unthinkingly not notice the controversy, is all I am saying.

We agree that no religion should be taught on public school if that is what you are saying. I also don't find it extreme enough for a suit, but I am also not a parent with a child in that school and don't know all the details or how it came about etc, so I can't answer why they in particular found it might be necessary to sue. Some times it's the lawyers that are pushing for the damages, and the parents might not have thought of it immediately, so we do agree for the most part. I think.. ack bad storm coming..

my aunt is a teacher (and very intelligent) but even she didn't catch i at first either. I called her about this and she loves the song....but it didn't occur to her that it could be taken that way until she thought about it....and she's not religious

Where did that song come from, I never heard of it in school or out, course I might not be in the places that would use it either.

You say teachers teach the song In god we still trust? Is that standard in a public school?

Parents complained, it was then pulled, that satisfies me but still leaves me with the question as to the teachers' motives.. just a though, why did she find it necessary to use this particular song, and was it being sung all long? I certainly can't help but wonder about such things especially because I have a problem with organized religion, and were the parents just now finding out?.

I don't think we can say what damage is done or not with any real confidence depending on how many times they sang it, and it would take a full week to explain what the catholic religion did to my head for over 30 years.

The point for me is some believe in god, and others do not. If one can't not show me proof that God exists then I do not want the suggestion given my kid in public school. Thats if I have any control at all over what my kid is taught? Again I have no kids, and am just learning now what kids are exposed to that I was not aware of in some cases. So this is not for me just a case of arguing to hear myself argue, I am curious as well.


I agree that parents can sit their children down after the fact, it's the fact that they had to in the first place that concerns me.

Children are taught the Pledge of Allegiance in schools too

Well I am sure there are other topics I might not be at all phased by initially, but you know me fairly well by now that this is a sore spot for me, though I don't want it to become a battle between those who believe and those that don't. Lets give her the benefit of the doubt that she didn't realize this. Meaning that teacher.. if the song was only sung once or twice and then pulled, ok no problem for me. I take my kid home and ask the child what they thought of the song, if they say what song, don't remember it, I won't waste more time on it.

this is a country song. it is not sung in all schools and even the pledge of allegiance isn't said in alot of schools

Yes and I recited it daily in catholic school for many years, and under god was added after the fact, no? It seems somone wanted religion good and ingrained in people.

I found this interesting but might not be the complete or accurate story.. http://history.vineyard.net/pledge.htm

POint for me is that it was added.. but this is probably another thread by it self. Would be an interesting topic if someone wants to start it.

Well just for giggles, I like country music even if i think some of it is corny even now. But I am not an impressionable child. I would not let my kids listen to certain rap either, but am aware that the time will come when I will have little control of that so I would only hope to get the child prepared to think about words used and how they affect their communications with people.

Ahh the joys of school lol

I remember being taught the pledge of allegiance...I never once said it beyond the day they taught it to us.

I also remember walking out of music class when they tried to make me learn a religious song.....I also walked out when they wanted me to sing god bless america...

Of course that led to parent teacher conferences...which led to me dropping the class (I couldn't sing anyways so I probly did them a favor lol).

Franshade,

You are missing THE POINT!!!

'Itsy Bitsy Spider' doesn't contravene the first amendment of the Constitution of the USA.

The song you posted most squarely and obviously goes smack against the First amendment of the Nation's Constitution.

Teachers in the public school system are our the nations's ambassadors in front of our kids, to educate the on the 'rule of law' for which we are all responsible.

A teacher proposing such lyrics as you posted, to students, cannot possibly be naive enough to think it is just a song in the same line as 'itsy bitsy'.

More likely, we are talking about religious zealots whom keep 'testing' the constitutional wisdom of the land; '... seperation of church and state...', regardless of the very clear public school system legislation warning against it.

These 'teachers' are promoting their own religious opinion and perspective on the matter of US Constitution, when their first obligation is to respect the Constitutional law of the land, and their first 'duty' is to teach, and promote it as it stands. If they have disgreements with the law of the land, then they should approach members of congress and follow appropriate demacratic channels. This is what demacracy is for everyone. The last a teacher should do is putting his or her own personal views above the law of the land when acting as a teacher.

In that sense, the lawsuit is perfectly justified, considering that 'religious zealots' do not seem to understand any other language. Without a legal gesture, and the deterrent that must come with it, zealots would disregarding the law, and keep having a blast simply keep 'testing' the system as THEY see fit.

The question isn't whether or not the lawsuit is justified. It is more than justified. It could be said that there is no other means for parents whom are tired of 'calling' teachers and schools back to order. Without serious and clear deterrents, zealots will keep hypocrytically 'testing' the system.

The real question IMHO, which will remain unanswered, is ...
... 'what will it take for religious zealots and fundamentalists to wake up and start respecting the wise and very real laws of the land, as opposed to their personal and often delusional dogma???...'

Teaching is huge matter of trust and responsibility. When that trust is broken, as it often is, people have the obligation to take the means at their disposal to have what is right prevail.

voil...1. I am already aware of your feelings. 2. people can sue for anything that might offend them. 3. it WAS dealt with. 4. if everyone sues for every little thing (which is their right to) it clogs the courts

BTW...athiests are just as bad at pushing their belief as anyone else in life. just as other religions. not everyone is a zealot because they believe in a higher power. there are patisans everywhere. the point is that this is extreme

Oh sweet Louise. I am the last person to promote nor excuse any sort of religious force feeding fanaticism whatsoever, but that clearly is not the case here.

Religion was not introduced, nor was religion being forced onto any student.

Now dont get me wrong what you or I call "God" is entirely up to us, whether we worship or we don't again up to us, but this is suit beyond ridiculous, want to make a statement fine, want others to know how you feel great, but to clog up the already backed up court sytem while seeking monetary compensation for 'damages' (in this instance) is beyond ridiculous to me.

As a parent if you feel your child shouldn't be exposed to a song you find inappropriate contact and handle it with the school, who removed the song and respected their wishes.

But what do I know

fran...we seem to be in agreement and we are from opposite ends of beliefs.