The Amish are Christians who have rejected technology and believe in living close to nature. They have held this belief thoughtout American history and still adhere to it today refusing to become a part of modern technological society.

This brings up a very interesting question. If all Christians had been Amish when they settled in America would that have changed the way these settlers interacted and got along with the native indians who also respected nature and living close to the land with respect for nature?

Also, what caused mainstream Christianity to reject the natural world in favor of embracing mammon?

What are your thoughts?

I'm a Jew

I'm a nothing.

Yet I can still speculate and inquire about the human condition and history.

Your pro tells me u r a buddist

I'm studying Buddhism. I am not a Buddhist.

I checked that box on my profile to enable me to read and post to the Buddhism forum.

I'm also studying Wichcraft and Shamanism, yet I am neither a witch nor a shaman.

I'm also studying Taoism yet I'm not a Taoist.

I'm also studying Christianity in spite of the fact that I already know it inside and out as I was raised into the religion and studied that tradition all life. Yet I am not a Christian.

I study the North American Indian philosophy of Wanka Tanka too, yet I am not an Indian.

I am simultaneously all of these things and none of them.

Ah, but throughout it all I am a human. Therefore I must be a humanist.

I think what u really need is a friend. Someone
To help u ease up a bit and not be so stuffy
At 3:23 on Monday afternoon. Have a shot and
Relax. Watch an episode of family guy and
Laugh your butt off my friend!

We are not men, we are DEVO

creature comforts

Thank you my friend, in addition to being a Jew I see that you are also a great psychiatric philanthropist who analysis’s via instantaneous perceptions and offers prescriptions pro bono.

I won’t be needing the shot or the show as you have provided me with great humor by just being yourself.

Thank you for the comedy.

I consider your course of spiritual studies to be very wise indeed.

We are first and foremost spritual beings. Various spiritual beliefs teach us different avenues to reach principled constructive lifestyles and the principles taught are predominately the same in most teachings. Religion, however, is the practice of traditions that may or may not be spiritual in nature.

When reading from Buddhist teachings I may intellectualize the exact same principles that are taught by the Native American spiritual guides, but in a manner that may hit my heart more effectively. And yet, some of the manners of teaching the same principle in another "religion" may be more effective still.

And so, I read on Buddhism, Native American spirituality, Christianity, and would like to study more avenues of spiritual growth.

One of the best pieces I have read referrencing the changes in the Catholic church during the very early Celtic practices versus the Roman Catholic practices and the eventual "demise" of the celtic tradition is called "Listening for the heartbeat of God". I thought it a shame that the Celtic Catholics were dimished as they were.

Another book that is very inspirational to a person such as myself is called "Living Buddha, Living Christ" and gives me the opportunity to see from the author's perspective how closely our principles, when spiritually applied instead of religiously applied, are related.

When one thinks of the benedictine monks, the native americans, and the celtic practices, there is such similarity that one cannot help but to believe we are all spiritually connected and have the same spiritual wants and needs.

Altruism, what a concept!

Yes, I believe you're right.

Ok, that explains it.

Next thread please,...

Thank you so much my friend and remember men really are devos!

Yes, the similarities in spirituality are profound amongst all the different traditions. A man by the name of Michael Harner had studied religions throughtout the world and come up with a concept he calls 'Core Shamanism' which is nothing more than a collection of the ideas that are common to all forms of spirituality.

One thing that is common to all religions is that spirits can indeed communiate to us through dreams and visions. The important to thing realize that this is open to everyone, not just select indvidiuals.

Shamanism in general is the art of learning how to commune with the spirit world.

There are many things that sadden me about world religions, two fo the most profound are the following.

1. Religions that recognize 'saints' tend to believe in them as external beings or something other than themselves. In fact, it is almost considered blaspheme to suggest that we might actually be a saint. That is truly sad. Especially when those religions demand that eveyone is a 'sinner' and has failed their creator. Those kind of thoughts are certainly not common to all religion. On the contrary most religions do not recognize such negative thoughts.

2. The other thing that I find truly sad is the lack of serious information and recognition of witchcraft and shamanism as a valid repectable religion that has merit. Wicca is certainly a modern attempt to bring respect to this spirituality. However, in truth, the concepts and ideas that reside in these traditions have every bit as much merit as any other religious system.

I find it truly strange how people can laugh at the concept of faeries yet take the concept of angels seriously. One ideal is certainly not more or less credulous than the other. If one can be taken seriously, then so should the other.

Many atheists resolve the problem by simply dismissing all religions and spiritualities, but I personally feel that they are toss out the baby with the bath water. It is far better to study them all and recognize the core shamanism that links them all.

In this way we can see the truth in all of them, and the falsities in all of them. They are all guidelines and none should be taken as 'literal' truth. Yet at the same time they all contain truth of the human spirit.

Do we find solution in looking for the cause?

Perhaps if we work backwards and adopt a way of life that is void of all technology, we will see a reversal in man's atrocities.

Perhaps this will be done for us, not by our choice. It could begin with the exiting of commerce. Natural disaster could also have a hand in it.

I say I'm okay with eating twigs, bugs and living like Survivor Man. But, in all honesty... it scares the **** out of me.

Great post Abra!

Being a hippie at heart. I feel that ALL of us are connected to Mother Earth whether we like it or not.

I feel that every generation is getting farther and farther away from Mother (Earth) with all this new technology and computers. And...Ma doesn't like it.

I think the Amish might just be onto something here...adapting the Native American way of life (i.e. living off the grid...and living off of OUR LIFE SOURCE....the Earth).

That might be the only passage from the bible that only holds true merit is "the meek shall inherit the Earth".


Just a thought....

All the great religions have underlying similarities. There is personal motivation for religious development, the human desire for stability, hope, and the need for social alliance. Those seeking power are likewise motivated, however, their desire is to control and instill obedience from their followers, or subjects, through manipulation of religious beliefs. Another common aspect of all the great religions is they share the same emergent qualities. The differences between the great religions are most apparent on the surface. Below the surface, however, lies a root system from which the most common elements of all the worlds great religions stem.

For nomadic and semi-nomadic people, life was unpredictable, unstable and uncontrollable. The early development of civilization attracted people because it offered more stable conditions. However, this proved just as unpredictable and unstable an environment. War and civil struggles for power led to slavery, massacre, and constant change. These environments motivated people to seek rational explanations and some measure of control in their lives, through religion. (try to figure the 'rational' in that!)

The people, or individuals, wielding the greatest influence understood the role of religious beliefs in people’s lives. Manipulating these beliefs could inspire commonality, creating a more obedient and stable realm while instilling a bond, or alliance, within the social structure. People that accept their role in society, and support the ruling class, are much easier to rule over.

The Egyptians created religions for the purpose of uniting their people under one rule as the Pharaohs became god-kings. The Greeks, while allowing the worship of personal gods, relied on mandatory ritual observances to bring people together, a quasi religion that served to unify their common alliance; support for their state no matter what else was believed. In China a split religious faction caused unrest, but when the Buddhist faction won, Prince Shotoku reformed beliefs, and made the ruler of Yamato equal to heavenly status. His rule was to be considered even above family priority. At the time of the Roman reconstruction period, Constantine decided to legitimize Christianity, even before professing his conversion. Persecution of Christians was no longer acceptable. The size of the Christian community, if made safe and protected, offered a number of resources to be utilized for reconstruction. Smart ruler!

Furthermore, it was 'trade' that evolved through the settling of communities. Missionaries from every religious faction tagged along on these trade journeys. Not only to pass word of their own religion, but also to bring back word of other religions. The best concepts, usually determined by a ruler, would then be incorporated into the religion of that society. (yes this included Christianity and it's more contemporary offshoots)

We can see why the great religions developed, and we can see how their growth was supported by various factions that utilized religions for control. The other similarity is their emergent qualities. There is no single religious concept that exists today as it did when conceived.(no-sorry, not one) Through all the interactions, trade, war, reconstruction and ruler manipulation, religion was fluid, being drawn, assimilated and absorbed becoming a virtual tide of merging and relenting.

The surface we see today reflects only some of the similarities, as acceptance of devotees has been so complete as to deny the roots from which they came. These great religions continue to evolve today, as they always have, to meet the human desire for stability, hope, and the need for social alliance.

As in the past, those who seek power and control are the main source of divergence both within and between the factions of the worlds great religions.

Wars and civil strife will be left in the wake of the fluid emergent processes that continue to grow beneath the surface of these religious ideas.

So Abra, in the end, what causes religions, even the Judeo-Christian ones, to change are the manipulations of people that 'assume' power and control the followers. The subjects that reinforce that power through their "desperate" desire for stability, hope, and the need for social alliance. Yet through all of recorded history, those that 'believe' can not comprehend, it is through their beliefs that change itself is facilited. My how they hate change, but how willing they are to accept it while proclaiming its stable nature.

Just had to post this - how odd that this thread just happened to coincide with a short history essay I had to write last week. (I aced it - so I must right)

When Columbus landed in America there were more than 15 million native Americans in what is now the U.S. By 1890 there were 300,000, a 97% death rate. Our nation sits on the bones on one of the greatest genocides in human history.

I hardly doubt the Armish where at peace with the Native Indians.

And if they were it was short lived.

I shed a tear to the innocent lives of the natives that endured the harsh tactics of being eliminated or having their children displaced from a religious belief system that they didn't embrace as their own.



Interesting articles to read:

http://thirtylettersinmyname.blogspot.com/2008/11/real-story-behind-american-thanksgiving.html


http://www.countercurrents.org/us-ford271106.htm

Many Amish own and drive cars and some even believe it ok to cell phones.

You can view and post to any board if you know the url of that board. Hint: The url of each board is variation of this: http://mingle2.com/forum/forum/XX. XX being a number. I don't remember what numbers go with what board, but with a little trial and error it isn't hard to find the one you want.

we have always commited atrocities, no matter how primitive we live we are still human and will always kill each other.
But in the last 100 yrs. or so we can do it on a massive scale.