Which of course is way ok....post away...Like I have told so many in the past....I put out information what people do with it is up to them....

Now first if your talking Orthodox Jew.....this is what they believe.


Belief in Deity
There exists only one personal God Almighty--creator, all-powerful, ever-present, and all-knowing--formless, incorporeal spirit.

Incarnations
None, as only God is worshipped. Moses was the greatest of all prophets.

Origin of Universe and Life
They hold to the book of Genesis literally, that God created the universe/life from nothing, in less than 7 days, less than 10,000 years ago; Adam and Eve were the first humans. But, some hold that a “day” in the Bible is not defined as 24 hours, and some believe that scientific discoveries don’t contradict but attest to God’s awesome power.

After Death
Traditional Judaism believes in the World to Come, the coming of the messianic age heralded by the messiah, and a resurrection of the dead, but beliefs vary on the details. Some believe souls of the righteous go to heaven, or are reincarnated, while the wicked suffer from a hell of their own making or remain dead. Some believe God will resurrect the righteous to live on earth after the Messiah comes to purify the world. Judaism generally focuses on strictly following God's commandments rather than on details of afterlife or rewards after death.

Why Evil?
No original sin. Most believe God created Satan as evil inclination, a tendency that lies within everyone. People also have awareness of and inclination toward goodness. Thus, God provides free will as a test of obedience and faith.

Salvation
Salvation is achieved through faith and continual prayer to God, strict adherence to divine commandments (Jewish Law), including dietary restrictions, to give to the poor, "love your neighbor as yourself," bring God’s message to humanity by example (a responsibility of God’s "chosen people"). Confessions and repentances are expressed through Yom Kippur when one fasts, asks forgiveness from others and from themselves, and commits to do good deeds in the future.

Undeserved Suffering
Sometimes it is believed that suffering is caused by a weakness in one’s devotion to God. Generally, it is believed that God gave humans free will to feel pleasure and pain, and His purpose in allowing deep suffering of the innocent must be good even if mysterious. God suffers along with the sufferer. Some Jews (e.g. the Hasidim) believe that suffering is punishment for past-life sins. Knowing why God allows suffering is not as important as knowing that God will punish the perpetrators.

Contemporary Issues
Judaism holds that human life begins upon first breath, and Jewish law requires abortion if necessary to save the mother’s life prior to birth. Most believe that potential human life should never be terminated casually, but abortion is generally regarded as a personal decision, especially within the first 40 days of pregnancy.


Now this above is very very true.....with one exception...Even in the time of Jesus, why he was even cruxified is because the sadasees and pharasees lived in Old Testament and traditions. The biggest mistake in doing so was denying Christ. When God and Christ were in heaven.....God had two choices destroy the world again which he promised Noah he would not do hence the rainbow or send his only son to live fully as a man and planned before all the Jesus did...Also note in Old Testament the prophecy of all that Jesus did was foretold long before he did. So God did just that he sent his only son to die on the cross so that we (Gentiles) and all that come have everlasting life. Jesus is still God's son and hence the miracles through his father and all that he did in his 3 years of ministry...But a man 100%. He had to be a man and live as a man in order to make in the end the greatest sacrafice for his Father....When God looked away from His Son in those final moments it was not because he didn't love Christ, it was because God loved us so much and could not look on His Son as he took on the Sin of the world.


Christ had no limitations whatever he set out to do or show was done....He could heal the blind, make the lame walk and just with a brush of the sleeve of his clothing....through His Father God. It is not ever a contradiction if you put all into the context in which it was done. God doesn't do contradictions only people do.

John 13:31
Jesus Predicts Peter's Denial When he was gone, Jesus said, "Now is the Son of Man glorified and God is glorified in him.

Acts 2:22
"Men of Israel, listen to this: Jesus of Nazareth was a man accredited by God to you by miracles, wonders and signs, which God did among you through him, as you yourselves know.

Acts 4:10
then know this, you and all the people of Israel: It is by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom you crucified but whom God raised from the dead, that this man stands before you healed.

Romans 5:15
But the gift is not like the trespass. For if the many died by the trespass of the one man, how much more did God's grace and the gift that came by the grace of the one man, Jesus Christ, overflow to the many!

Timothy 2:5
For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,

No I believe he is referring to an Orthodox Christian viewpoint in his book there. He's just saying you could have had Jesus embody both qualities but not all of either which is what the Orthodox view specifically calls for.

'Single view', 'single minded', 'fundamentalist and dogmatic' 'christians' hold one single, exclusive and compulsive belief: ... the INERRANCY OF THE BIBLE...!!!

In the reality of such believers, the 'bible' is held to be ERROR FREE, regardless of any evidence to the contrary.

Thus, in the mind of a fundamentalist dogmatic 'bible inerrancy' believer, the Gospel of John can only be absolutely accurate when it presents Jesus Christ as a supernatural being, the Son of God, who was present at the creation of the universe, is the savior of humanity, and who came to earth so that believers "might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly." (John 10:10 KJV).

Here is the case of 'bad faith' IMO:

This is the 'general religion chat' forum. It invites those whom wish to discuss religion from a general perspective, rather than the single religion exclusive and dogmatic angle.
It is meant for those whom wish to explore in 'good faith', a number of perfectly legitimate general religion 'questions', all worthy of being DEBATED IN GOOD FAITH.

'...In good faith...' is simple in this case. Before participating in a thread such as this one, one should ask oneself:

'... I'm I allowed, do I wish, or I am interested in EXPLORING THIS QUESTION as proposed by the host/OP??? ...'

If one's religious dogma does not allow one to question certain aspects of the so-called 'received truth' (the inerrant part) of the dogma in which one believes, in good faith, one should refrain from participating in any given thread which raises such questions about one's religious 'inerrant' dogma.

Anything else can only result in 'threadbashing', with the intent of imposing and proselytizing one's exclusive religious or moral point of view, which derails and destroys any possibility of debating the OP.

I personnally do not believe in the christian dogma. Given that position of mine, I know better than to 'invade' and 'threadbash' the 'christian' café's discussions.
I respect the liberty and interest of those whom wish to exchange bible quotes, and discuss principles which they believe and share.

Is it too much to suggest that single religion, and 'bible inerrancy' believers could afford others the same courtesy, and stay clear of open minded, general religion chat 'debates', which simply seek to explore legitimate general religious questions???

We all know that a bible inerrancy fundamentalist has no intention to explore, or raise questions about the source or influence of the story of 'Jesus'. To act as though you are debating a question which you do not allow yourself toquestion in the first place, is squarely dishonest IMO.

To 'bash' the thread and state the obvious: '... I only believe in the bible because the bible is the only thing I believe in!!! ...' is redundant, disrespectful, and derails any chance of open minded debate.

It doesn't really matter what the origins of the Biblical stories are. The stories themselves are untenable.

It makes no sense to claim to have a supposedly blameless God who's so jealous that he hates anyone who refuses to worship him.

He's already flawed with the worst of human pitfalls, jealousy and hate.

Whether the story was original or plagiarized is irrelevant. It's a flawed story either way.

YES Abra!!!

I happen to agree with you on this particular view of the biblical stories, and all the attached dogma.

The point is however, neither you nor I would even think of 'bashing' the christian threads, and chant our 'ANTI-DOGMA' rethoric!!!

You and I, and many others here respect the people's right to different beliefs.

The line is drawn however, when one deludes oneself in believing that he is charged with a mission of imposing his beliefs above all others!!!

That is 'BAD FAITH' in every sense of the expression.

Its certainly not my position to criticize the beliefs of individuals. Thats an exercise in futility but what I dont fully understand is why Jesus (who there is absolutely no proof that he existed at all) is somehow placed on this pedestal as being the one true messiah put on this earth by god (yet he is god) and then all of these other different gods existed before him like Horus and Krishna and they have nearly the identical backgrounds and historical accounting of their lives? Why are they considered the "impostors" and not Jesus? I guess thats the million dollar question right there.

Futility is right 'Alverdine'!!!

And to elevate one's god and beliefs by pushing and dishonoring everyone else's god and beleifs, is equally fultile and disingeneous.


The host's topic raises the possibility of unifying people while respecting differences in beliefs.

If we were allowed to debate the host's question without the 'fundamentalists' dogmatic chorus line, we might have a chance to get to this fundamental and elevating concept.

IMHO, that is exactly the intent of this thread: to explore and debate questions which celebrate unity of the HUMAN FAMILY, regardless of beliefs, rather than proselytizing the corrosive, divisive and destructive dogma which only segragates it.

If I am wrong about the host's intent, I apologize, and invite him to bring me back to order.

Because regardless of what the truth may be, people have been programed from a young age to believe a certain way by people that have a vested interest in controlling the flow of information and what it contains.

Believing that the bible has gone untainted and unchanged for over 2,000 years is an incredible leap of faith.

Every time I hear of people blindly following words without question I get sick. Given everything that has happened, to do so and live like sheep is to spit in the face of every person that has truly lived as a Christian.

Faith that remains unchallenged is blind faith indeed.

If one still believes after opening their mind to other possibilities, they are truly spiritually strong.

No scholar today would except your conclusion.

How is the story of Jesus remarkable as compared to these other gods that lived before him? Thats the real problem. They all came BEFORE him which leaves the channel for plagiarism wide open.

Christian Scholars?

Are you kidding?

All respectable religious scholars are fully aware and openly confess that the story of Jesus is not at all unique.

Even the Christian clergy openly recognize this truth and simply claim that Satan is responsible for inspiring the previous stories in an attempt to confuse men.

Now that's a desperate claim!

But the mere fact that they make this claim proves beyond any doubt that they are in agreement that the story of Jesus is in no way unique and it would be futile to attempt to claim that it is.

Ok interesting here.....you have a post on Jesus vs. Krisna

Now I can't give you any other view then my own....so again call it a single view, single minded whatever...I can only post "MY" views. Did you not see where I also posted that anyone can believe anything they wish....So again same crap different day from you sir.

If I have ever received any "so called evidence the the bible is not true" then ok but thus far I have not...Every contradiction that has been brought to me I showed where they took a teeny piece of scripture out of context....so therefore again sir I can only go by what I know to be truth. I can't give you answer as a drakonian, I am not one, I can't give you answers as an Athiest, because I am not one....get the picture.

I cannot nor would not debate anything about Jesus, God, the Bible with anything other then what "I know" I can't answer as you Voil...because I am not you....If you have such an open mind will rooty tooty for you....I let others believe whatever gets them through the day....I have one single religion so therefore can only respond with answers that "I know to be truth for me"

And I find it rather rude that you think in your ever open mind that we can answer any other way then that which we know....So to say to be that the threads are "ONLY MEANT for those whom wish to explore in 'good faith', a number of perfectly legitimate general religion 'questions', all worthy of being DEBATED IN GOOD FAITH.

is lame

And you can answer any way you choose as I am entitled by the rules to do the same.....so again I say to you be very very careful before you cast stones my friend.

Now again I give all respect and kudos that you don't believe in the so called christian dogma......But am I not entitled to the same. And just FYI if this thread was krisna beliefs I never would of stepped in....But when Jesus....which is who and what I believe with all my heart, soul and mind is involved..then you can bet your sweet bippy I have every right to come in a voice my opinion and if you don't like it....oh well.....this is life sir....Bring up any thread with God, Christ and the Bible and I will here..

And again practice what you preach voil...because it's not you bashing the krisnas or the athiest or the drakodians but the Christian and if you do expect it to come back 10 fold.

It's also not a matter of exploring but the knowledge for me myself and I what I believe in. If people are wishy washy and don't know what it is they believe oh well I can't help that...But to think that I am going to come into a thread and say "Oh yes they are one in the same, when my Lord clearly states that "HE" is the only one then you sadly mistaken.

The following to me shows again the shallow single minded person that want himself to be right and damn what I so believe in....Well again not going to happen...and I find this disrespectful, of what I believe and furthermore you don't have that right.

Voil said:

To 'bash' the thread and state the obvious: '... I only believe in the bible because the bible is the only thing I believe in!!! ...' is redundant, disrespectful, and derails any chance of open minded debate.

I again can only speak for myself....I have studied many many religions. Circumstances led me to search and the Lord Jesus Christ was the one that answered...I was not young and as with my parents and my kids for me, nothing was ever shoved down my throat. I searched and found for myself. And through this searching and finding the Lord who I cried out to show me he was real....Which the Lord did. Now I don't care if people will come and say oh you think your that special that God spoke to you...I don't care because the fact of the matter is He did and He does. And for me to deny him and the faith I have in the Lord of Lords is through the search and my faith is unwavering.

I believe with all my heart, soul and mind, In God, Christ and the inate word of God the Bible...I do believe that God himself breathed life into the Bible and inspired every word from Genesis to Revelation. If people don't want this then ok.....but again for me....I will not deny the Lord his rightful place, and like in Acts I will go out into the world and make disciples of men.

Again I say to all who enters this thread. I do not follow the Lord my God blindly nor do I walk a path that is wide, but one that is narrow for the Lord has shown me and that is all I need. I have seen with my own eyes the miracles that are "His" right here on this sight I have seen athiest turn to God, cold hard unrelenting men, who through prayer and the word of God have seen the light. I have seen one so stricken with cancer here on mingle that the doctors said there was no hope....Again through prayer not only was there hope but complete healing and she has not only given her life to Christ but now is very involved in missions and the church. I have seen to much to ever deny that "He" is not exactly who "He" proclaims to be.

So call in Blind Faith or whatever you want....I see clear, I hear the Lord, so take a few minutes to ponder if perhaps the covering on your eyes is strong and the ears also, for it takes but a moment if it is truly of the heart for the Lord to take away the film of the eyes and the wax in the ears and stop and listen...truly listen.
Nothing will ever make sense, not the Bible not any of it...if like you said there is no open minds...but keep the covering over your eyes and ears and you could read the word millions of times and not have a clue. I give all the Glory to You Lord God and I humbly anoint and praise you for all that you do in my life, as well as on Mingle..In Your Mighty Name Lord AMEN.

I wouldn't have thought the story of jesus was a "teeny piece of scripture". The whole story of jesus was a plagiarism of several other religions that came thousands of years before.
I'm not calling you a liar, but I don't believe your story of the cancer healing. Cancer doesn't work like that. I think you will find that all claims of miraculous healing are either lies or just out of control rumors. This has been shown time and time again.

Well darling then look up madamx7315 and ask for yourself...and oh really.....well maybe of better understanding of how God works here. He is the mighty healer, through him anything is possible. It is said that when two or more gather in his name (prayer) that Mighty things happen...Tell the man at my church who the doctors gave months to live not once not twice but 14 different times when different cancers riddled his body. Tell that to me when the Lord healed my breast cancer.....go and ask the doctors that were not only dumbfounded but whose mouths were on the floor....And remember sweet Thomas I am a witness to these miracles so there are no fabrications there are none of what you speak of.

And what about all those people whose prayers go unanswered? What about the countless people who are/were in your situation, or that guys situation, and pray, but nothing happens, or they die quicker than the time they were given? Why doesn't god help all those starving children around the world, if he helped you with cancer?
Just because the doctors don't know what happened, doesn't mean that they can't find out, or that it was god.

God reaches to man in all ways... The beauty of a rose in early morning light, the sweetness in the air as you draw breath, birds singing...

Many ways that god reaches out to us... Yet most hear not.

While faith in the supernatural is not in itself usually considered to be the purview of science, claims of reproducible effects are nevertheless subject to scientific investigation. A Cochrane review of intercessory prayer found essentially no effect, and a recent study not included in the review found similar results for the effect of intercessory prayer on outcome for heart surgery. The American Medical Association considers that prayer as therapy should not be a medically reimbursable or deductible expense. Skeptics of faith healing offer primarily two explanations for anecdotes of cures or improvements, relieving any need to appeal to the supernatural.

The first is post hoc ergo propter hoc, meaning that a genuine improvement or spontaneous remission may have been experienced coincidental with but independent from anything the faith healer or patient did or said. These patients would have improved just as well even had they done nothing. The second is the placebo effect, through which a person may experience genuine pain relief and other symptomatic alleviation. In this case, the patient genuinely has been helped by the faith healer or faith-based remedy, not through any mysterious or numinous function, but by the power of their own belief that they would be healed. In both cases the patient may experience a real reduction in symptoms, though in neither case has anything miraculous or inexplicable occurred. Both cases, however, are strictly limited to the body's natural abilities.

There have been case studies of claims made. Following a Kathryn Kuhlman 1967 fellowship in Philadelphia, Dr. William A. Nolen conducted a case study of 23 people who claimed to have been cured during her services. Nolen's long term follow-ups concluded there were no cures in those cases. Furthermore, "one woman who was said to have been cured of spinal cancer threw away her brace and ran across the stage at Kuhlman's command; her spine collapsed the next day, according to Nolen, and she died four months later." In 1976, Kuhlman died in Tulsa, Oklahoma, following open-heart surgery.

There are also some cases of fraud (faking the condition) or ineffective healing (believing the condition has been healed immediately after the "healing", and later finding out it has not). These are discussed in following sections.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faith_healing

Like I said before....It's all God's timing not ours....He has a reason always for waiting until he feels the time is right or never at all. I know from again my own experiences that everyone has trials, including me.....if he doesn't answer is he testing my loyality and my faith....could be...But here is the big difference for me...I never doubt God I give him 100% of my life. Always when something is not answered it is later revealed why through some other circumstance. And sometimes it is not and it might take 1 year 5 years or 50 years....It's not up to us to decide...But the people that get angry at God for not doing what they think he should...What is that telling God? Why did Jesus heal the leaper, or the blind man, why did as you think Christ pick this one over that one...It is not for us to know, but to have the utmost Faith that He has his reasons..

Everyone on this planet is loved by God and it is arrogant to think that God owes anything to anyone. But I know with all my heart that what God does is what is truly best. Now again you can't take man made problems and think that just because you say GOD why are all those children suffering why are all these people homeless etc. There is God's way and we can't even phanthom what that is...and to think you should or could is just imo wrong...

Why is it that everyone wants to blame God for everything?

But how many wake each new day and say thank you God for all that you do in my life?