Topic: Four days in a row!
Fanta46's photo
Tue 03/17/09 09:19 PM


Bush gave a 1.6 trillion dollar tax-cut to the wealthiest Americans.

This just brings them back to where they were before that,
and "THAT" did't work!noway



Article 1 Section 8 of the Constitution...

The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes, duties, imposts and excises, to pay the debts and provide for the common defense and general welfare of the United States; but all duties, imposts and excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;

To borrow money on the credit of the United States;

To regulate commerce with foreign nations, and among the several states, and with the Indian tribes;

To establish a uniform rule of naturalization, and uniform laws on the subject of bankruptcies throughout the United States;

To coin money, regulate the value thereof, and of foreign coin, and fix the standard of weights and measures;

To provide for the punishment of counterfeiting the securities and current coin of the United States;

To establish post offices and post roads;

To promote the progress of science and useful arts, by securing for limited times to authors and inventors the exclusive right to their respective writings and discoveries;

To constitute tribunals inferior to the Supreme Court;

To define and punish piracies and felonies committed on the high seas, and offenses against the law of nations;

To declare war, grant letters of marque and reprisal, and make rules concerning captures on land and water;

To raise and support armies, but no appropriation of money to that use shall be for a longer term than two years;

To provide and maintain a navy;

To make rules for the government and regulation of the land and naval forces;

To provide for calling forth the militia to execute the laws of the union, suppress insurrections and repel invasions;

To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the militia, and for governing such part of them as may be employed in the service of the United States, reserving to the states respectively, the appointment of the officers, and the authority of training the militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress;

To exercise exclusive legislation in all cases whatsoever, over such District (not exceeding ten miles square) as may, by cession of particular states, and the acceptance of Congress, become the seat of the government of the United States, and to exercise like authority over all places purchased by the consent of the legislature of the state in which the same shall be, for the erection of forts, magazines, arsenals, dockyards, and other needful buildings;--And

To make all laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into execution the foregoing powers, and all other powers vested by this Constitution in the government of the United States, or in any department or officer thereof.




And Congress at the time was overwhelmingly Republican! While it was, for 6 years, Bush didn't use a Presidential veto 1 time. Not Once.
When the Dems gained a small Majority, the last two years, he used it more than 2 dozen times. Knowing the slim majority had no chance of over-riding his veto.
The entire 8 years and everything Obama, and America, was left to deal with is all on the Republican Party.
We will be seeing, feeling, and correcting the damage they did to America for years!

AndrewAV's photo
Tue 03/17/09 10:47 PM

Five days.......... way to go Obama........and team! He may just save capitalism from itself


So a few good days means it'll all be over? Fact is, we won't know if this all worked for at least 5-10 years. Even if the recession ends this year, we still won't be able to say his policies worked

nogames39's photo
Tue 03/17/09 10:51 PM
Doesn't matter, man, they will still be dancing bananas and chanting victory, whether or not anything Obama does actually works as promised.

It is not the result that matters, but those acted out actions.

If it was in real life, the mechanics would be able to charge for simply promising the repair, and then diving under the hood! It would not matter if the car actually was repaired, and for how long.

Dragoness's photo
Tue 03/17/09 10:58 PM



Bush gave a 1.6 trillion dollar tax-cut to the wealthiest Americans.

This just brings them back to where they were before that,
and "THAT" did't work!noway



Article 1 Section 8 of the Constitution...

The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes, duties, imposts and excises, to pay the debts and provide for the common defense and general welfare of the United States; but all duties, imposts and excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;

To borrow money on the credit of the United States;

To regulate commerce with foreign nations, and among the several states, and with the Indian tribes;

To establish a uniform rule of naturalization, and uniform laws on the subject of bankruptcies throughout the United States;

To coin money, regulate the value thereof, and of foreign coin, and fix the standard of weights and measures;

To provide for the punishment of counterfeiting the securities and current coin of the United States;

To establish post offices and post roads;

To promote the progress of science and useful arts, by securing for limited times to authors and inventors the exclusive right to their respective writings and discoveries;

To constitute tribunals inferior to the Supreme Court;

To define and punish piracies and felonies committed on the high seas, and offenses against the law of nations;

To declare war, grant letters of marque and reprisal, and make rules concerning captures on land and water;

To raise and support armies, but no appropriation of money to that use shall be for a longer term than two years;

To provide and maintain a navy;

To make rules for the government and regulation of the land and naval forces;

To provide for calling forth the militia to execute the laws of the union, suppress insurrections and repel invasions;

To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the militia, and for governing such part of them as may be employed in the service of the United States, reserving to the states respectively, the appointment of the officers, and the authority of training the militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress;

To exercise exclusive legislation in all cases whatsoever, over such District (not exceeding ten miles square) as may, by cession of particular states, and the acceptance of Congress, become the seat of the government of the United States, and to exercise like authority over all places purchased by the consent of the legislature of the state in which the same shall be, for the erection of forts, magazines, arsenals, dockyards, and other needful buildings;--And

To make all laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into execution the foregoing powers, and all other powers vested by this Constitution in the government of the United States, or in any department or officer thereof.




And Congress at the time was overwhelmingly Republican! While it was, for 6 years, Bush didn't use a Presidential veto 1 time. Not Once.
When the Dems gained a small Majority, the last two years, he used it more than 2 dozen times. Knowing the slim majority had no chance of over-riding his veto.
The entire 8 years and everything Obama, and America, was left to deal with is all on the Republican Party.
We will be seeing, feeling, and correcting the damage they did to America for years!


Right and some people act like Obama has been office long enough for the results of anything he has done to be gauged. Not.

He has been in office two months, not enough for the market to even react yet or any of the other things mentioned to reflect.

AndrewAV's photo
Tue 03/17/09 11:03 PM
exactly. that's the part of this nobody seems to understand. it's very possible to spend our way out of this recession and I believe that we will eventually do that. The problem is at what cost? China is already getting weary of our borrowing and I don't believe there is any more than maybe another trillion on that line of credit before they say 'enough.' If we again double our national debt, what if we cannot get any more money? As it sits, even when/if Obama ever halves the deficit as promised, it will still sit significantly above the deficit of the first 7 years of the Bush administration (6 of which were completely Republican controlled). What do you do when you increase the size of government and run out of money?

The fact of the matter is, even if we do buy our way out of this, it still can be an utter failure. Postponing a problem (like we are now doing) is not success. Success would be fixing the root of the problem. We are not doing that. Obama's adminsitration is just perpetuating the failed methods of the past and in the end, we will have the exact same problem as before.

I guess the bright side is that if we pull out on his watch, the ignorant will credit him immediately and he'll be re-elected. Then, when the recession comes around again and it's just as bad or worse, we can fully pin it on his policies.

Another note, with economic cycles, you have a 6 month minimum reaction time. So if we start pulling out now, for the next few months, it's not because of Obama's policies. Nothing is that immediate in economics. Also, the blue chips are a weak indicator of the economy as a whole. The thing to look for is unemployment falling - not slowing, falling - as that usually follows the economy by 3-4 months and that will mean we are in the upswing.

Dragoness's photo
Tue 03/17/09 11:32 PM

exactly. that's the part of this nobody seems to understand. it's very possible to spend our way out of this recession and I believe that we will eventually do that. The problem is at what cost? China is already getting weary of our borrowing and I don't believe there is any more than maybe another trillion on that line of credit before they say 'enough.' If we again double our national debt, what if we cannot get any more money? As it sits, even when/if Obama ever halves the deficit as promised, it will still sit significantly above the deficit of the first 7 years of the Bush administration (6 of which were completely Republican controlled). What do you do when you increase the size of government and run out of money?

The fact of the matter is, even if we do buy our way out of this, it still can be an utter failure. Postponing a problem (like we are now doing) is not success. Success would be fixing the root of the problem. We are not doing that. Obama's adminsitration is just perpetuating the failed methods of the past and in the end, we will have the exact same problem as before.

I guess the bright side is that if we pull out on his watch, the ignorant will credit him immediately and he'll be re-elected. Then, when the recession comes around again and it's just as bad or worse, we can fully pin it on his policies.

Another note, with economic cycles, you have a 6 month minimum reaction time. So if we start pulling out now, for the next few months, it's not because of Obama's policies. Nothing is that immediate in economics. Also, the blue chips are a weak indicator of the economy as a whole. The thing to look for is unemployment falling - not slowing, falling - as that usually follows the economy by 3-4 months and that will mean we are in the upswing.


Actually, I heard that the government has not thrown enough money at the problem. They say we need to spend a trillion or more to really get the recession to reverse. Financial experts have said this but I know all of us are hoping we can pull through with the amount they used instead of throwing more money at it.

scttrbrain's photo
Tue 03/17/09 11:59 PM
Edited by scttrbrain on Wed 03/18/09 12:00 AM

Just trying my luck
Kat

Huh...well I'll be damn.
I mean darn.

Giocamo's photo
Wed 03/18/09 03:25 PM



Bush gave a 1.6 trillion dollar tax-cut to the wealthiest Americans.

This just brings them back to where they were before that,
and "THAT" did't work!noway



Article 1 Section 8 of the Constitution...

The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes, duties, imposts and excises, to pay the debts and provide for the common defense and general welfare of the United States; but all duties, imposts and excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;

To borrow money on the credit of the United States;

To regulate commerce with foreign nations, and among the several states, and with the Indian tribes;

To establish a uniform rule of naturalization, and uniform laws on the subject of bankruptcies throughout the United States;

To coin money, regulate the value thereof, and of foreign coin, and fix the standard of weights and measures;

To provide for the punishment of counterfeiting the securities and current coin of the United States;

To establish post offices and post roads;

To promote the progress of science and useful arts, by securing for limited times to authors and inventors the exclusive right to their respective writings and discoveries;

To constitute tribunals inferior to the Supreme Court;

To define and punish piracies and felonies committed on the high seas, and offenses against the law of nations;

To declare war, grant letters of marque and reprisal, and make rules concerning captures on land and water;

To raise and support armies, but no appropriation of money to that use shall be for a longer term than two years;

To provide and maintain a navy;

To make rules for the government and regulation of the land and naval forces;

To provide for calling forth the militia to execute the laws of the union, suppress insurrections and repel invasions;

To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the militia, and for governing such part of them as may be employed in the service of the United States, reserving to the states respectively, the appointment of the officers, and the authority of training the militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress;

To exercise exclusive legislation in all cases whatsoever, over such District (not exceeding ten miles square) as may, by cession of particular states, and the acceptance of Congress, become the seat of the government of the United States, and to exercise like authority over all places purchased by the consent of the legislature of the state in which the same shall be, for the erection of forts, magazines, arsenals, dockyards, and other needful buildings;--And

To make all laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into execution the foregoing powers, and all other powers vested by this Constitution in the government of the United States, or in any department or officer thereof.




And Congress at the time was overwhelmingly Republican! While it was, for 6 years, Bush didn't use a Presidential veto 1 time. Not Once.
When the Dems gained a small Majority, the last two years, he used it more than 2 dozen times. Knowing the slim majority had no chance of over-riding his veto.
The entire 8 years and everything Obama, and America, was left to deal with is all on the Republican Party.
We will be seeing, feeling, and correcting the damage they did to America for years!


my point is...you keep laying everything from tax cuts to the war in Iraq at the feet of George W. Bush...but...as we know...the Congress...regardless of who's in control...pulls all the strings...

yellowrose10's photo
Wed 03/18/09 03:31 PM
i was thinking the same thing

ok....just curious here. why is it all Bush's fault for everything....but with clinton or obama...it's congress???

madisonman's photo
Wed 03/18/09 03:46 PM




Bush gave a 1.6 trillion dollar tax-cut to the wealthiest Americans.

This just brings them back to where they were before that,
and "THAT" did't work!noway



Article 1 Section 8 of the Constitution...

The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes, duties, imposts and excises, to pay the debts and provide for the common defense and general welfare of the United States; but all duties, imposts and excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;

To borrow money on the credit of the United States;

To regulate commerce with foreign nations, and among the several states, and with the Indian tribes;

To establish a uniform rule of naturalization, and uniform laws on the subject of bankruptcies throughout the United States;

To coin money, regulate the value thereof, and of foreign coin, and fix the standard of weights and measures;

To provide for the punishment of counterfeiting the securities and current coin of the United States;

To establish post offices and post roads;

To promote the progress of science and useful arts, by securing for limited times to authors and inventors the exclusive right to their respective writings and discoveries;

To constitute tribunals inferior to the Supreme Court;

To define and punish piracies and felonies committed on the high seas, and offenses against the law of nations;

To declare war, grant letters of marque and reprisal, and make rules concerning captures on land and water;

To raise and support armies, but no appropriation of money to that use shall be for a longer term than two years;

To provide and maintain a navy;

To make rules for the government and regulation of the land and naval forces;

To provide for calling forth the militia to execute the laws of the union, suppress insurrections and repel invasions;

To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the militia, and for governing such part of them as may be employed in the service of the United States, reserving to the states respectively, the appointment of the officers, and the authority of training the militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress;

To exercise exclusive legislation in all cases whatsoever, over such District (not exceeding ten miles square) as may, by cession of particular states, and the acceptance of Congress, become the seat of the government of the United States, and to exercise like authority over all places purchased by the consent of the legislature of the state in which the same shall be, for the erection of forts, magazines, arsenals, dockyards, and other needful buildings;--And

To make all laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into execution the foregoing powers, and all other powers vested by this Constitution in the government of the United States, or in any department or officer thereof.




And Congress at the time was overwhelmingly Republican! While it was, for 6 years, Bush didn't use a Presidential veto 1 time. Not Once.
When the Dems gained a small Majority, the last two years, he used it more than 2 dozen times. Knowing the slim majority had no chance of over-riding his veto.
The entire 8 years and everything Obama, and America, was left to deal with is all on the Republican Party.
We will be seeing, feeling, and correcting the damage they did to America for years!


my point is...you keep laying everything from tax cuts to the war in Iraq at the feet of George W. Bush...but...as we know...the Congress...regardless of who's in control...pulls all the strings...
and the whole time Bush was pres the repubs had a majority in congress.jeeeeze

AndrewAV's photo
Wed 03/18/09 07:01 PM


exactly. that's the part of this nobody seems to understand. it's very possible to spend our way out of this recession and I believe that we will eventually do that. The problem is at what cost? China is already getting weary of our borrowing and I don't believe there is any more than maybe another trillion on that line of credit before they say 'enough.' If we again double our national debt, what if we cannot get any more money? As it sits, even when/if Obama ever halves the deficit as promised, it will still sit significantly above the deficit of the first 7 years of the Bush administration (6 of which were completely Republican controlled). What do you do when you increase the size of government and run out of money?

The fact of the matter is, even if we do buy our way out of this, it still can be an utter failure. Postponing a problem (like we are now doing) is not success. Success would be fixing the root of the problem. We are not doing that. Obama's adminsitration is just perpetuating the failed methods of the past and in the end, we will have the exact same problem as before.

I guess the bright side is that if we pull out on his watch, the ignorant will credit him immediately and he'll be re-elected. Then, when the recession comes around again and it's just as bad or worse, we can fully pin it on his policies.

Another note, with economic cycles, you have a 6 month minimum reaction time. So if we start pulling out now, for the next few months, it's not because of Obama's policies. Nothing is that immediate in economics. Also, the blue chips are a weak indicator of the economy as a whole. The thing to look for is unemployment falling - not slowing, falling - as that usually follows the economy by 3-4 months and that will mean we are in the upswing.


Actually, I heard that the government has not thrown enough money at the problem. They say we need to spend a trillion or more to really get the recession to reverse. Financial experts have said this but I know all of us are hoping we can pull through with the amount they used instead of throwing more money at it.


Well, either way, if we keep spending, we reach the point where our creditors will likely just say no and then be 'persuaded' by the US to keep lending.

The main thing to take away from this is that just because we get out of the recession by spending, that does not make anything a success until you see how all the cards play out. That will likely be a decade down the road.

madisonman's photo
Thu 03/19/09 12:52 AM
7 dayslaugh

AndrewAV's photo
Thu 03/19/09 01:14 AM

7 dayslaugh


apparently you missed the day it dropped. Either way, the stock market means absolutely d*ck in the grand scheme of things. it's one of the weakest factors of the economy IMO as it's only a handful of companies. Get happy about it all you'd like. The fact is unemployment is still rising, credit is still frozen, and in the end, we'll have put a several trillion dollar band-aid on the economy's bullet wound and I guarantee unless there is real reform, we'll end up here by the middle of the next decade. again.

The problem with the current mindset is 1. the here and now, and 2. the incorrect ideals are being pushed for in the long term. Right now, our short term goal is to get out of the recession and get jobs. Our long term goal is to promote green energy, education, healthcare, and infrastructure. The problem is, green energy, education, healthcare, and infrastructure are not the root problems of the financial crisis...well education, yes, but not as they're trying to "fix" it. By concentrating on these issues that have nothing to do with our stability and blinding themselves to the root and the future repercussions from their mass spending, we are doomed to relive history.

madisonman's photo
Thu 03/19/09 01:19 AM
I agree somewhat with your comments yes we need to rebuild our manufacturing base that is the core for prosparity.

AndrewAV's photo
Thu 03/19/09 05:33 PM
Edited by AndrewAV on Thu 03/19/09 05:34 PM

I agree somewhat with your comments yes we need to rebuild our manufacturing base that is the core for prosparity.


No, manufacturing is not the core of our prosperity. I said nothing of the sort. We need to rebuild our fiscal base. We must stop living above our means just because we can. If manufacturing can be done overseas, so be it. If it's less expensive to businesses, then our costs will stay low. if you import those jobs here and they cost more to do, well, then you're going to see a hike in the cost of that good too.

Outsourcing is an absolute necessity in today's economy. Without it, cost-push inflation shows it's ugly head and the cost of everything goes up. Bringing those jobs back now is not the answer to our problem. unemployment is normal in a recession - what we truly need to do is fix the base of the pyramid - fiscal responsibility across the board. Doing that will lessen the fall next recession and unemployment will not rise nearly as far.


As much as you may disagree, I believe our outsourcing and globalization has saved us from the next great depression. Though if you disagree, back it up. i have to go visit my mom at the hospital and will explain later.

madisonman's photo
Thu 03/19/09 06:40 PM


I agree somewhat with your comments yes we need to rebuild our manufacturing base that is the core for prosparity.


No, manufacturing is not the core of our prosperity. I said nothing of the sort. We need to rebuild our fiscal base. We must stop living above our means just because we can. If manufacturing can be done overseas, so be it. If it's less expensive to businesses, then our costs will stay low. if you import those jobs here and they cost more to do, well, then you're going to see a hike in the cost of that good too.

Outsourcing is an absolute necessity in today's economy. Without it, cost-push inflation shows it's ugly head and the cost of everything goes up. Bringing those jobs back now is not the answer to our problem. unemployment is normal in a recession - what we truly need to do is fix the base of the pyramid - fiscal responsibility across the board. Doing that will lessen the fall next recession and unemployment will not rise nearly as far.


As much as you may disagree, I believe our outsourcing and globalization has saved us from the next great depression. Though if you disagree, back it up. i have to go visit my mom at the hospital and will explain later.
wondering how well the economy will do if we all sell pizzas and big macs to each other

Logan1976's photo
Thu 03/19/09 07:36 PM
Government is not the solution to the problem it is the problem. Obama,Polosi,Emanuel,Reed are all srewing America and shifting blame to "greedy companies". They are attempting to destroy free market capitalism while they lie to the American people. They are Socialists and so are many of you. What are you gonna do when you run out of other peoples money? Capitalism has created the opportunity for everone reading this to not have to stand in line for government cheese or toilet paper. America has the best healthcare system in the world bar none. You are all being fed a pack of lies. Most of you are believing every one of them. The stimuls(PORK)plan has 9000 earmarks of wich no one person knows. Obama did'nt even read it. The AIG bonuses were coverd. Now that we all know about them the government is blaming everyone but themselves. Our founding fathers knew this would happen. We need to all return to conservative values before its too late.

madisonman's photo
Fri 03/20/09 01:03 AM
Edited by madisonman on Fri 03/20/09 01:27 AM

Government is not the solution to the problem it is the problem. Obama,Polosi,Emanuel,Reed are all srewing America and shifting blame to "greedy companies". They are attempting to destroy free market capitalism while they lie to the American people. They are Socialists and so are many of you. What are you gonna do when you run out of other peoples money? Capitalism has created the opportunity for everone reading this to not have to stand in line for government cheese or toilet paper. America has the best healthcare system in the world bar none. You are all being fed a pack of lies. Most of you are believing every one of them. The stimuls(PORK)plan has 9000 earmarks of wich no one person knows. Obama did'nt even read it. The AIG bonuses were coverd. Now that we all know about them the government is blaming everyone but themselves. Our founding fathers knew this would happen. We need to all return to conservative values before its too late.
Isnt this the same Mantra that created this crisis? I dont have much time but our health care system isnt all that great but it is the most expensive in the world and america ranks near the bottom in terms of care in the western democracies.

no photo
Fri 03/20/09 01:24 AM
ok that just hurt my head!!!noway

madisonman's photo
Fri 03/20/09 01:25 AM
Edited by madisonman on Fri 03/20/09 01:27 AM
The World Health Organization's ranking
of the world's health systems.
France
2 Italy
3 San Marino
4 Andorra
5 Malta
6 Singapore
7 Spain
8 Oman
9 Austria
10 Japan
11 Norway
12 Portugal
13 Monaco
14 Greece
15 Iceland
16 Luxembourg
17 Netherlands
18 United Kingdom
19 Ireland
20 Switzerland
21 Belgium
22 Colombia
23 Sweden
24 Cyprus
25 Germany
26 Saudi Arabia
27 United Arab Emirates
28 Israel
29 Morocco
30 Canada
31 Finland
32 Australia
33 Chile
34 Denmark
35 Dominica
36 Costa Rica
37 United States of America
38 Slovenia
39 Cuba
40 Brunei
41 New Zealand
42 Bahrain
43 Croatia
44 Qatar
45 Kuwait
46 Barbados
47 Thailand
48 Czech Republic
49 Malaysia
50 Poland
This is from 2000 imagine if they had done this last year or t his year with the millions of americans with no health care at all we would probably be at the bottom

http://www.photius.com/rankings/healthranks.html