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| Topic: Evolution Is it Compatible With THE BIBLE? - part 2 | |
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Edited by
Abracadabra
on
Sun 03/08/09 01:52 PM
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How is one's belief in Evolution any different than another's belief in the bible? To even ask this question suggests that you have absolutely NO CLUE how the scientific method of investigation actually works. All you're really attempting to do here is claim that Science is entirely "Faith-based". But that's asburd. You also seem to be looking at it from the opoint of view of uneducated students in a classroom that just place their faith in their teachers and text books. That's a TOTALLY ERRONEOUS representation of what science is. Science is NOT just a a bunch of students placing faith in what teachers say. Science is the ACTUAL PHYSICAL INVESTIGATIONS that lead up to the results that are printed in the textbooks. If science were merely faith-based, then we'd have a whole lot of scientists in disagreement with each other. In the case of something as well-established as the 4.5 billion year age of the Earth, there is no disagreement in the scientific communitity. It's not "Faith-based" at all. It's "Evidence-based". |
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If one's faith is in the Judeo/Christain God - the biblical authors have no reason to be doubted. That's an oxymoronic statement right there. The very fact that you've put FAITH in that picture is what prevents you from doubting it. But it doesn't change the argument. Perhaps you are unfamiliar with the number of times it has been posted that people just don't want the bible to be true. Check a few dozen of Abra's posts - he's not kept this a secret. And I don't understand what makes you think that someone who believes in the bible hasn't investigated it. This is also a total farce. It's true that today AFTER all my studies and realizations I would not want the Bible to be true. Why should I? If you believe in what the Bible says it's about a God who cast countless INNOCENT people into an eternal hell fire. It's about a God who places BETS with a supposedly demonic angel where human souls are the poker chips! It's about a God who is mean to people who supposedly already love him and are already his LOYAL SERVANTS. To believe in the Bible you truly need to believe that God is so egoistically hung up on TESTING whether or not people LOVE HIM that's it can't be described as anything other than truly SICK. Not to mention the FACT that according to the religion overall, God is supposed to already KNOW what's in our hearts and there is NOTHING we can hide from God! Can't you see the oxymoronic situation here? A God who is supposed to KNOW what's in your heart and yet he doesn't TRUST anyone?  But this wasn't the REASON that I gave up on the Bible. Actually back when I rejected it I WANTED to believe it! I didn't think about all these gory details at that time. It was my intention to TEACH IT! So you are way off base trying to portray me as a skeptic who never wanted to believe it. That's simply a completely fabrication on your part and you even KNOW IT. You've heard my history before, to try and portray me now as someone who never wanted the Bible to be true is downright deception and nothing short of dishonest. Originally I wanted the Bible to be truth, moreover I BELIEVED it was true! But that was BEFORE I READ IT! Yes, let's face it, it's NOT IMPORTANT to read the Bible to become a Christian. In fact MOST Christians have no clue what's even in the Bible. They just accept Jesus Christ as their Savior and go on their merry way. If they do read the Bible they DON'T QUESTION IT, then just say, "Well God must have his reasons, he knows best". But I wanted to TEACH the Bible! Telling people "Well God must have his reasons" every time someone asks me to explain something did not cut it for me. Besides people are always saying that the Bible contains ANSWERS to every question. Welll, surely if that's true then it must contain answer to questions that people might normally ask. The TRUTH it that it DOESN'T. That's the TRUTH. No one can even tell you why God can't forgive people unless they've butchered an animals. IT DOESN'T SAY in the Bible why God is APPEASED by blood sacrifices. Now that's a question that should be explained. I can explain it! It's because the authors weren't even being ORIGINAL when they made it up. It's no different than any other Mediterranean Mythologies. Also, there's the issue of why the "Jesus Story" was told hundreds of years before Jesus was born in so MANY different forms. The people who WANT the Bible to be true are trying to claim that the Devil had people make up these stories so that modern generations would see this and think that it's just a plagiarized myth. But that would mean TWO THINGS. First, it implies that Satan knows what God is going to do BEFORE God does it, and secondly it implies that God never KNEW that Satan had done that since he never bothered mentioning in the Bible that those stories existed. The only reason I take about not WANTING the Bible to be true is when people come at me from the point of view of pure FAITH. Why would anyone WANT the biblical story to be true? Why would you WANT it to be true? The story claims that all of humanity fell from grace from our creator and that he had to have his son slaughtered just to save our totally UNWORTHY butts. Why would anyone WANT such a story to be true? I think clearly any SANE person would be truly saddened if the Bible IS TRUE. There most certainly is nothing to 'Rejoice" about if it were true. If Jesus had to die on the Cross it's YOUR FAULT! That's what the Bible is saying! Why would you want to that to be TRUE ON PURE FAITH? That's a faith issue, that you have never addressed in all the times that I've asked it? Why do you WANT it to be true that you've failed your creator and he had to have his son brutally murdered and publicly humiliated to SAVE your butt? Why would you WANT that to be true? And would you be disappointed if you discovered that it wasn't true? If you found out today in no uncertain terms that the Bible is entirely made up by man would you be disappointed? If so why? Do you like the idea that a God had to have his son butchered to pay for your sinful ways? And if you don't like that picture then why believe it on PURE FAITH ALONE? Why fight so hard to support such an ugly picture of not only man, but of God as well? Surely you can see that MAJOR PROBLEM with the WHOLE PICTURE. You supposedly have an ALL-PERFECT creator creating a PERFECT world and then sin miraculously comes into this picture from NOWHERE! That's absurd already. If there was a perfect creator that created an imperfect universe he'd have no one to blame but himself. The idea that it's because he gave people FREE WILL just doesn't cut it. Giving people FREE WILL doesn't automatically create evil. In fact, if God's heaven was supposed to be PERFECT then why did a fully their of God's angels not like it? Clearly it must not have been PERFECT from their point of view. So now we're struck with a 'subjectively perfect' heaven that some people think is perfect and others do not. There can be no such things as ABSOLUTE PERFECTION if we have so many angels disagreeing that it's PERFECT. The whole story is an oxymoronic story Eljay. Trying to discredit people who recognize this by trying to claim that it's just because they don't want it to be true is truly a dishonest tactic. To the people who are interested in REASON I hold that the Bible and the Biblical God is UNREASONABLE. Therefore if we are to believe in the Bible we must believe that God is UNREASONABLE. When reading the Bible all we need to do is ask ourselves the following two questions? 1. Would a truly all-wise, loving God have written or done the things the Bible claims? 2. Would men who are trying to put fear into their readers make this stuff up? When I do that I find myself answering NO to the first question constantly, and YES to the second question all the time. So which question is more likely to be true based on REASON? To the people who claim that we must have FAITH, I say the following: Why would I want to have FAITH that our creator is at war with a measly fallen angel? Why would I want to have FAITH that all of mankind has fallen from grace from God? Why would I want to have FAITH that the only way to obtain the LOVE of this God is to believe that he had his son slaughtered on a pole to pay for my pathetic rebellious behavior? Why would I want to have FAITH that if I can't find the story believable this God will cast me into a pit of eternal damnation even though I'm actually a good person but just couldn't buy into this horror story? Why would I want to have FAITH that God is UNREASONABLE? Yes, you are right about that. Now that I look at this unreasonable book in GREAT DETAIL for over 40 years of LIFE, I've come to the final conclusion that I don't want it to be True. It's a horror story about a God who will send innocent people to hell just because they refuse to believe that God is an insane madman who's at war with a fallen angel, and keeps changing his mind about how he wants to deal with humanity (i.e. one moment he's flushing them away in a global flood, and the next moment he's having his son nailed to a pole so he can forgive them their sins). Hey, as far as I'm concerned BOTH of those solutions to his problems are EQUALLY SICK! This is a story about a supposedly FATHER IMAGE God who has failed MISERABLY as a father and now he's taking it all out on his children. If he were a human being he's be in jail on child abuse charges. And you expect me to accept this story ON PURE FAITH when there is NO REASONABLE reason to believe it? That's crazy. The story is as absurd as Greek Mythology if not more absurd. Yet you don't seem to have any problem at all chalking Zeus off as a lost cause. Why do you cling to this absurd picture when it's basically proven itself to be anything but divine. Abra; I did not say that you never wanted the bible to be true. I simply said you don't want the bible to be true. This post here demonstrates it by your own words - and it's not the first time you've said it. You're just the poster child for it. I really couldn't care less how you came about your conclusion - or whether you made the decision 30 years ago, or last year. You prove my point. You don't want the bible to be true. It matters not what pretextual arguments you attempt to create to support your view - it never comes from context anyway. So be it. |
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If one's faith is in the Judeo/Christain God - the biblical authors have no reason to be doubted. That's an oxymoronic statement right there. The very fact that you've put FAITH in that picture is what prevents you from doubting it. But it doesn't change the argument. Perhaps you are unfamiliar with the number of times it has been posted that people just don't want the bible to be true. Check a few dozen of Abra's posts - he's not kept this a secret. And I don't understand what makes you think that someone who believes in the bible hasn't investigated it. This is also a total farce. It's true that today AFTER all my studies and realizations I would not want the Bible to be true. Why should I? If you believe in what the Bible says it's about a God who cast countless INNOCENT people into an eternal hell fire. It's about a God who places BETS with a supposedly demonic angel where human souls are the poker chips! It's about a God who is mean to people who supposedly already love him and are already his LOYAL SERVANTS. To believe in the Bible you truly need to believe that God is so egoistically hung up on TESTING whether or not people LOVE HIM that's it can't be described as anything other than truly SICK. Not to mention the FACT that according to the religion overall, God is supposed to already KNOW what's in our hearts and there is NOTHING we can hide from God! Can't you see the oxymoronic situation here? A God who is supposed to KNOW what's in your heart and yet he doesn't TRUST anyone? But this wasn't the REASON that I gave up on the Bible. Actually back when I rejected it I WANTED to believe it! I didn't think about all these gory details at that time. It was my intention to TEACH IT! So you are way off base trying to portray me as a skeptic who never wanted to believe it. That's simply a completely fabrication on your part and you even KNOW IT. You've heard my history before, to try and portray me now as someone who never wanted the Bible to be true is downright deception and nothing short of dishonest. Originally I wanted the Bible to be truth, moreover I BELIEVED it was true! But that was BEFORE I READ IT! Yes, let's face it, it's NOT IMPORTANT to read the Bible to become a Christian. In fact MOST Christians have no clue what's even in the Bible. They just accept Jesus Christ as their Savior and go on their merry way. If they do read the Bible they DON'T QUESTION IT, then just say, "Well God must have his reasons, he knows best". But I wanted to TEACH the Bible! Telling people "Well God must have his reasons" every time someone asks me to explain something did not cut it for me. Besides people are always saying that the Bible contains ANSWERS to every question. Welll, surely if that's true then it must contain answer to questions that people might normally ask. The TRUTH it that it DOESN'T. That's the TRUTH. No one can even tell you why God can't forgive people unless they've butchered an animals. IT DOESN'T SAY in the Bible why God is APPEASED by blood sacrifices. Now that's a question that should be explained. I can explain it! It's because the authors weren't even being ORIGINAL when they made it up. It's no different than any other Mediterranean Mythologies. Also, there's the issue of why the "Jesus Story" was told hundreds of years before Jesus was born in so MANY different forms. The people who WANT the Bible to be true are trying to claim that the Devil had people make up these stories so that modern generations would see this and think that it's just a plagiarized myth. But that would mean TWO THINGS. First, it implies that Satan knows what God is going to do BEFORE God does it, and secondly it implies that God never KNEW that Satan had done that since he never bothered mentioning in the Bible that those stories existed. The only reason I take about not WANTING the Bible to be true is when people come at me from the point of view of pure FAITH. Why would anyone WANT the biblical story to be true? Why would you WANT it to be true? The story claims that all of humanity fell from grace from our creator and that he had to have his son slaughtered just to save our totally UNWORTHY butts. Why would anyone WANT such a story to be true? I think clearly any SANE person would be truly saddened if the Bible IS TRUE. There most certainly is nothing to 'Rejoice" about if it were true. If Jesus had to die on the Cross it's YOUR FAULT! That's what the Bible is saying! Why would you want to that to be TRUE ON PURE FAITH? That's a faith issue, that you have never addressed in all the times that I've asked it? Why do you WANT it to be true that you've failed your creator and he had to have his son brutally murdered and publicly humiliated to SAVE your butt? Why would you WANT that to be true? And would you be disappointed if you discovered that it wasn't true? If you found out today in no uncertain terms that the Bible is entirely made up by man would you be disappointed? If so why? Do you like the idea that a God had to have his son butchered to pay for your sinful ways? And if you don't like that picture then why believe it on PURE FAITH ALONE? Why fight so hard to support such an ugly picture of not only man, but of God as well? Surely you can see that MAJOR PROBLEM with the WHOLE PICTURE. You supposedly have an ALL-PERFECT creator creating a PERFECT world and then sin miraculously comes into this picture from NOWHERE! That's absurd already. If there was a perfect creator that created an imperfect universe he'd have no one to blame but himself. The idea that it's because he gave people FREE WILL just doesn't cut it. Giving people FREE WILL doesn't automatically create evil. In fact, if God's heaven was supposed to be PERFECT then why did a fully their of God's angels not like it? Clearly it must not have been PERFECT from their point of view. So now we're struck with a 'subjectively perfect' heaven that some people think is perfect and others do not. There can be no such things as ABSOLUTE PERFECTION if we have so many angels disagreeing that it's PERFECT. The whole story is an oxymoronic story Eljay. Trying to discredit people who recognize this by trying to claim that it's just because they don't want it to be true is truly a dishonest tactic. To the people who are interested in REASON I hold that the Bible and the Biblical God is UNREASONABLE. Therefore if we are to believe in the Bible we must believe that God is UNREASONABLE. When reading the Bible all we need to do is ask ourselves the following two questions? 1. Would a truly all-wise, loving God have written or done the things the Bible claims? 2. Would men who are trying to put fear into their readers make this stuff up? When I do that I find myself answering NO to the first question constantly, and YES to the second question all the time. So which question is more likely to be true based on REASON? To the people who claim that we must have FAITH, I say the following: Why would I want to have FAITH that our creator is at war with a measly fallen angel? Why would I want to have FAITH that all of mankind has fallen from grace from God? Why would I want to have FAITH that the only way to obtain the LOVE of this God is to believe that he had his son slaughtered on a pole to pay for my pathetic rebellious behavior? Why would I want to have FAITH that if I can't find the story believable this God will cast me into a pit of eternal damnation even though I'm actually a good person but just couldn't buy into this horror story? Why would I want to have FAITH that God is UNREASONABLE? Yes, you are right about that. Now that I look at this unreasonable book in GREAT DETAIL for over 40 years of LIFE, I've come to the final conclusion that I don't want it to be True. It's a horror story about a God who will send innocent people to hell just because they refuse to believe that God is an insane madman who's at war with a fallen angel, and keeps changing his mind about how he wants to deal with humanity (i.e. one moment he's flushing them away in a global flood, and the next moment he's having his son nailed to a pole so he can forgive them their sins). Hey, as far as I'm concerned BOTH of those solutions to his problems are EQUALLY SICK! This is a story about a supposedly FATHER IMAGE God who has failed MISERABLY as a father and now he's taking it all out on his children. If he were a human being he's be in jail on child abuse charges. And you expect me to accept this story ON PURE FAITH when there is NO REASONABLE reason to believe it? That's crazy. The story is as absurd as Greek Mythology if not more absurd. Yet you don't seem to have any problem at all chalking Zeus off as a lost cause. Why do you cling to this absurd picture when it's basically proven itself to be anything but divine. Abra; I did not say that you never wanted the bible to be true. I simply said you don't want the bible to be true. This post here demonstrates it by your own words - and it's not the first time you've said it. You're just the poster child for it. I really couldn't care less how you came about your conclusion - or whether you made the decision 30 years ago, or last year. You prove my point. You don't want the bible to be true. It matters not what pretextual arguments you attempt to create to support your view - it never comes from context anyway. So be it. If the bible were true that would be horrible. A god that kills babies and commands people to kill their own childern. You have to be a bit sick in the head to want the bible to be true. |
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Generally - one holds onto a belief system based on what they read, or hear. For example - every child in High School biology thinks that the world is 4.5 billion years old. Why is that? Because that is what the texts tell them, and the teachers reinforce it. It doesn't matter what the "truth" might be - their faith is in the honesty of the teachers and the editors of the texts. What school kid would ever believe a teacher would lie to them? Well, I don't know about you but I asked questions and never took anything the teachers told me as truth just because they said so. The FACT is that if you ask how they KNOW that the earth is 4.5 billion years old they will explain to you in great depth how they know that it's TRUE. The scientific evidence is overwhelming. It comes not only from methods of dating ancient rocks, but it comes from the observations of how geological processes unfold on the Earth. It's also verified by astronomical observations of how solar systems form. It's also verified by the processes of nuclear physics and how the sun works, and they clearly have that down pat beyond any shadow of a doubt. You can rest assurded that the Earth is indeed 4.5 billion years old. And if you question it all you need to do is study all the difference sciences and see how they arrived at their conclusions. In order to reject the evidence you'd basically have to denounce all of science and REASON. Either that or claim that God made the universe to purposefully decieve us. But then you'd be suggesting that God is decietful. First of all - it has to be demostrated that it is even "evidence" in the first place. How can that be done since there was no one there to even witness the emperical facts of the control substances. I've investigated all of the forms of "dating methods" - and continue to do so in order to understand why this is represented as "science" - and I find a tad too much conjecture there for my liking. The a priori's that must be accepted are not demonstratable. For instance - there is no way to determine the original content of radio-active material found within the control material to come up with anything empirical. Uniformality of environmental influences can be witnessed as obviously incredible. No one can possibly determine that the length of isotropic deterioration of any test subject is accurate - for the length of time it takes to even observe the presummed changes is beyond the lifetimes of an army of generations - so how can these supposed observations be extraolated back into time - based on their being no observation of the necessary controls to support the extrapolation being in evidence. Then there's the question of the flood - which must be unequivacally DENIED in order to even begin to support the premises. Evidence... what evidence. The scientific theory of dating sytems is built solely on a faith based structure. Period. That is not to deny them - it's just there's no justification to give them any more validity than the creation account of Genesis. To claim that science is a mere faith-based method of inquiry is truly ludicuous Eljay. I can't believe that you could even suggest such a thing. You mis-represent me Abra, I don't deny science - I deny it's extrapolations. I think it is rather obvious that there are mutations and changes within the DNA structures of material objects. I think that mere observations of the differences within species is overwhelming proof of that. However - this does nothing to prove the extrapolation of these observations into an evolutionary tree of origins. To ask me to believe that the observable facts of today prove the presumptions of millions of years of this occuring at the grand scale that Darwin conjectured is beyond a matter of faith. It defines it. And this comes from someone who's trying to sell a truly absurd picture of a God that has NO PROOF of DIVINE CONNECTIONS WHATSOEVER? I'm not trying to sell the picture of God and divine connections. I just point out the flaws in your idea's of it. I've never once announced what I believe about God or the bible. I've merely stated that I find the reasons put forth on this site to disprove it have no foundation. I make no claim to proof that it is absolute truth. That can only be demonstrated by faith. My position is that any belief system - be it Pantheism, Christainity, or Evolution is a pure faith based belief. It can be argued that any observation - from the big bang to the mutation of bacteria, can be used to support any one of these world views. You don't see me arguing that Pantheism isn't true because I have "evidence" of Christainity - do you? That is a strawman argument to what my posts are about. You can believe in unseen angels with wings. Demons with pointy tails that are at war with God. A God who supposedly inspiried a male chuavinistic book both throughout the Old Testament and then again though Paul in the New Testament? A God who supposedly had a son who DISAGREE with his previous teachings? All this is based on what? A book that was written by Isaelites and was clearly focused on having God be on THEIR side in all their wars and rejecting all other nations as HEATHENS? Oh please. These are the presumptions YOU have of the bible. They are not mine. I don't pretend to believe in what you disbelieve Abra - I have my own idea's of what the bible says, and they don't fall within your imaginations. So while you may assume to know what I believe about the bible and christainity - it is based on what you understand the bible to be presenting, and has nothing to do with what I believe. I just don't feel it necessary to explain t you exactly WHAT I believe, just that what you THINK I believe is not accurate. Similar to your belief in Pantheism is not based on what I don't believe about it. To give you perspective. And you still have never even addressed the question of why you would even WANT to put your FAITH in such a crazy picture of a jealous God who hates non-believers and will cast them into hell and had to have his son butchered on a pole to pay for YOUR willfull disobedience toward him. Surely since you are so vehement about placing faith in this story you could come up with a reason why a person should WANT it to be true? Why should we want to believe that we are at odds with our creator and that he had to have his son slaughtered to pay for our WILLFUL disobedience of him? Here - you are making the point I just made. I indeed have not stated my position on this conjecture of yours. For to me - any attempt to put "God" (the one of biblical reference) in a box is merely thinking too small. I don't attempt to justify God's working amoungst te creation in human terms. You claim he sends "innocents" off to hell. I look at this and ask - How do I know their innocent - and isn't it THEIR choice where they'll spend eternity? I know that I can examine my life and see I'm not innocent - and that the choice to believe in what the gospel writers wrote about Jesus is MY choice. I don't need to justify anyone elses choices, or their level of innocence. Suffice it to say that I have yet to meet anyone in my 50+ years who is "innocent" of injustice to either themselves or someone else. The day I do - maybe I'll start thinking like you do. But until that point, I find no evidence of any "innocence" anywhere on the planet. I don't even feel that I've been WILLFULLY disobedient to God so the idea that he had to have his son nailed to a pole for MY SAKE makes ABSOLUTELY NO SENSE to me, much less be something that I'd WANT to believe on pure faith when the evidence against it being true is totally overwhelming. Why should I WANT to have FAITH in this picture? And if I don't WANT to have FAITH in it, then what other reason could their be to put my FAITH in it? It's got to be a WANT-based religion. Unless you're just scared to death that it MIGHT be true and you're cowering down to the threat that if you don't put your FAITH in it you'll be eternally PUNISHED. But that would just be to confess that you worship it out of FEAR and not FAITH at all. Perhaps that is because you measure morality and obedience by your own standards. You are your own God. You set the limits of acceptable behavior - and by your own standards, you are innocent of any wrong doing. By this standard - why are you worried about what the christain God is about. Unless you find that should you be confronted by Him to give account for yourself - as the bible says, that you didn't find it up to your standards - what is it going to matter - because by your account, this God doesn't exist, and therfore you have no need to worry about giving an account. It causes me to wonder why you even bother to post so adamenty against something you don't believe could possibly exist? |
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Edited by
Eljay
on
Sun 03/08/09 03:18 PM
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How is one's belief in Evolution any different than another's belief in the bible? To even ask this question suggests that you have absolutely NO CLUE how the scientific method of investigation actually works. All you're really attempting to do here is claim that Science is entirely "Faith-based". But that's asburd. You also seem to be looking at it from the opoint of view of uneducated students in a classroom that just place their faith in their teachers and text books. That's a TOTALLY ERRONEOUS representation of what science is. Science is NOT just a a bunch of students placing faith in what teachers say. Science is the ACTUAL PHYSICAL INVESTIGATIONS that lead up to the results that are printed in the textbooks. If science were merely faith-based, then we'd have a whole lot of scientists in disagreement with each other. In the case of something as well-established as the 4.5 billion year age of the Earth, there is no disagreement in the scientific communitity. It's not "Faith-based" at all. It's "Evidence-based". You're making your first statement is evidence that you do not understand the question I am asking, not that I do not understand science. I know perfectly well what science is about, and I understand how the whole idea of "SCientific Theory" comes about - and this I get from the scientists who state that Christains do not know what is meant by scientific theory. What I want to know is how the observations of today justify the extrapolations of the past. This is NOT science. It defy's the very definition of science to state that these are "theory" and not "conjecture". A) DNA mutation is "scientific theory" B) Man and Ape sharing a common ancestor is "Conjecture". Perhaps you do not know what science is about. There is evidence for the "A" statement of abouve - no evidence for "B". So how does one equate them? |
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Three years at St Charles Bormino Seminary, five years in the Jesusits and I never, repeat never met anyone who took the Bible as literal truth or anything near truth, but only as faith (this is what we choose to believe)literature and poetry. And I met people who dealth with the boy in St Louis whom they based the book/movie The Excorist on. Yes they believe in a mystery and things beyond our comprehension, but not that the Bible is the unchangeable word of g-d.
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If one's faith is in the Judeo/Christain God - the biblical authors have no reason to be doubted. That's an oxymoronic statement right there. The very fact that you've put FAITH in that picture is what prevents you from doubting it. But it doesn't change the argument. Perhaps you are unfamiliar with the number of times it has been posted that people just don't want the bible to be true. Check a few dozen of Abra's posts - he's not kept this a secret. And I don't understand what makes you think that someone who believes in the bible hasn't investigated it. This is also a total farce. It's true that today AFTER all my studies and realizations I would not want the Bible to be true. Why should I? If you believe in what the Bible says it's about a God who cast countless INNOCENT people into an eternal hell fire. It's about a God who places BETS with a supposedly demonic angel where human souls are the poker chips! It's about a God who is mean to people who supposedly already love him and are already his LOYAL SERVANTS. To believe in the Bible you truly need to believe that God is so egoistically hung up on TESTING whether or not people LOVE HIM that's it can't be described as anything other than truly SICK. Not to mention the FACT that according to the religion overall, God is supposed to already KNOW what's in our hearts and there is NOTHING we can hide from God! Can't you see the oxymoronic situation here? A God who is supposed to KNOW what's in your heart and yet he doesn't TRUST anyone? But this wasn't the REASON that I gave up on the Bible. Actually back when I rejected it I WANTED to believe it! I didn't think about all these gory details at that time. It was my intention to TEACH IT! So you are way off base trying to portray me as a skeptic who never wanted to believe it. That's simply a completely fabrication on your part and you even KNOW IT. You've heard my history before, to try and portray me now as someone who never wanted the Bible to be true is downright deception and nothing short of dishonest. Originally I wanted the Bible to be truth, moreover I BELIEVED it was true! But that was BEFORE I READ IT! Yes, let's face it, it's NOT IMPORTANT to read the Bible to become a Christian. In fact MOST Christians have no clue what's even in the Bible. They just accept Jesus Christ as their Savior and go on their merry way. If they do read the Bible they DON'T QUESTION IT, then just say, "Well God must have his reasons, he knows best". But I wanted to TEACH the Bible! Telling people "Well God must have his reasons" every time someone asks me to explain something did not cut it for me. Besides people are always saying that the Bible contains ANSWERS to every question. Welll, surely if that's true then it must contain answer to questions that people might normally ask. The TRUTH it that it DOESN'T. That's the TRUTH. No one can even tell you why God can't forgive people unless they've butchered an animals. IT DOESN'T SAY in the Bible why God is APPEASED by blood sacrifices. Now that's a question that should be explained. I can explain it! It's because the authors weren't even being ORIGINAL when they made it up. It's no different than any other Mediterranean Mythologies. Also, there's the issue of why the "Jesus Story" was told hundreds of years before Jesus was born in so MANY different forms. The people who WANT the Bible to be true are trying to claim that the Devil had people make up these stories so that modern generations would see this and think that it's just a plagiarized myth. But that would mean TWO THINGS. First, it implies that Satan knows what God is going to do BEFORE God does it, and secondly it implies that God never KNEW that Satan had done that since he never bothered mentioning in the Bible that those stories existed. The only reason I take about not WANTING the Bible to be true is when people come at me from the point of view of pure FAITH. Why would anyone WANT the biblical story to be true? Why would you WANT it to be true? The story claims that all of humanity fell from grace from our creator and that he had to have his son slaughtered just to save our totally UNWORTHY butts. Why would anyone WANT such a story to be true? I think clearly any SANE person would be truly saddened if the Bible IS TRUE. There most certainly is nothing to 'Rejoice" about if it were true. If Jesus had to die on the Cross it's YOUR FAULT! That's what the Bible is saying! Why would you want to that to be TRUE ON PURE FAITH? That's a faith issue, that you have never addressed in all the times that I've asked it? Why do you WANT it to be true that you've failed your creator and he had to have his son brutally murdered and publicly humiliated to SAVE your butt? Why would you WANT that to be true? And would you be disappointed if you discovered that it wasn't true? If you found out today in no uncertain terms that the Bible is entirely made up by man would you be disappointed? If so why? Do you like the idea that a God had to have his son butchered to pay for your sinful ways? And if you don't like that picture then why believe it on PURE FAITH ALONE? Why fight so hard to support such an ugly picture of not only man, but of God as well? Surely you can see that MAJOR PROBLEM with the WHOLE PICTURE. You supposedly have an ALL-PERFECT creator creating a PERFECT world and then sin miraculously comes into this picture from NOWHERE! That's absurd already. If there was a perfect creator that created an imperfect universe he'd have no one to blame but himself. The idea that it's because he gave people FREE WILL just doesn't cut it. Giving people FREE WILL doesn't automatically create evil. In fact, if God's heaven was supposed to be PERFECT then why did a fully their of God's angels not like it? Clearly it must not have been PERFECT from their point of view. So now we're struck with a 'subjectively perfect' heaven that some people think is perfect and others do not. There can be no such things as ABSOLUTE PERFECTION if we have so many angels disagreeing that it's PERFECT. The whole story is an oxymoronic story Eljay. Trying to discredit people who recognize this by trying to claim that it's just because they don't want it to be true is truly a dishonest tactic. To the people who are interested in REASON I hold that the Bible and the Biblical God is UNREASONABLE. Therefore if we are to believe in the Bible we must believe that God is UNREASONABLE. When reading the Bible all we need to do is ask ourselves the following two questions? 1. Would a truly all-wise, loving God have written or done the things the Bible claims? 2. Would men who are trying to put fear into their readers make this stuff up? When I do that I find myself answering NO to the first question constantly, and YES to the second question all the time. So which question is more likely to be true based on REASON? To the people who claim that we must have FAITH, I say the following: Why would I want to have FAITH that our creator is at war with a measly fallen angel? Why would I want to have FAITH that all of mankind has fallen from grace from God? Why would I want to have FAITH that the only way to obtain the LOVE of this God is to believe that he had his son slaughtered on a pole to pay for my pathetic rebellious behavior? Why would I want to have FAITH that if I can't find the story believable this God will cast me into a pit of eternal damnation even though I'm actually a good person but just couldn't buy into this horror story? Why would I want to have FAITH that God is UNREASONABLE? Yes, you are right about that. Now that I look at this unreasonable book in GREAT DETAIL for over 40 years of LIFE, I've come to the final conclusion that I don't want it to be True. It's a horror story about a God who will send innocent people to hell just because they refuse to believe that God is an insane madman who's at war with a fallen angel, and keeps changing his mind about how he wants to deal with humanity (i.e. one moment he's flushing them away in a global flood, and the next moment he's having his son nailed to a pole so he can forgive them their sins). Hey, as far as I'm concerned BOTH of those solutions to his problems are EQUALLY SICK! This is a story about a supposedly FATHER IMAGE God who has failed MISERABLY as a father and now he's taking it all out on his children. If he were a human being he's be in jail on child abuse charges. And you expect me to accept this story ON PURE FAITH when there is NO REASONABLE reason to believe it? That's crazy. The story is as absurd as Greek Mythology if not more absurd. Yet you don't seem to have any problem at all chalking Zeus off as a lost cause. Why do you cling to this absurd picture when it's basically proven itself to be anything but divine. Abra; I did not say that you never wanted the bible to be true. I simply said you don't want the bible to be true. This post here demonstrates it by your own words - and it's not the first time you've said it. You're just the poster child for it. I really couldn't care less how you came about your conclusion - or whether you made the decision 30 years ago, or last year. You prove my point. You don't want the bible to be true. It matters not what pretextual arguments you attempt to create to support your view - it never comes from context anyway. So be it. If the bible were true that would be horrible. A god that kills babies and commands people to kill their own childern. You have to be a bit sick in the head to want the bible to be true. I hate to have to break this to you - but God kills everyone. This is a demonstratable - "SCIENTIFIC FACT". The bible says it is the "soul who sins who will die" - and that "all men sin" We observe that everyone dies. So what's your point? |
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Edited by
Eljay
on
Sun 03/08/09 03:24 PM
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Three years at St Charles Bormino Seminary, five years in the Jesusits and I never, repeat never met anyone who took the Bible as literal truth or anything near truth, but only as faith (this is what we choose to believe)literature and poetry. And I met people who dealth with the boy in St Louis whom they based the book/movie The Excorist on. Yes they believe in a mystery and things beyond our comprehension, but not that the Bible is the unchangeable word of g-d. So what you are saying is that your experience has been with Catholicism. Are you presuming that Catholicism is the authority on this matter? I never found it to be so in the many years I was a Catholic, and find it to be even less so today. I do not find Catholicism to be representative of Christainity. |
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If one's faith is in the Judeo/Christain God - the biblical authors have no reason to be doubted. That's an oxymoronic statement right there. The very fact that you've put FAITH in that picture is what prevents you from doubting it. But it doesn't change the argument. Perhaps you are unfamiliar with the number of times it has been posted that people just don't want the bible to be true. Check a few dozen of Abra's posts - he's not kept this a secret. And I don't understand what makes you think that someone who believes in the bible hasn't investigated it. This is also a total farce. It's true that today AFTER all my studies and realizations I would not want the Bible to be true. Why should I? If you believe in what the Bible says it's about a God who cast countless INNOCENT people into an eternal hell fire. It's about a God who places BETS with a supposedly demonic angel where human souls are the poker chips! It's about a God who is mean to people who supposedly already love him and are already his LOYAL SERVANTS. To believe in the Bible you truly need to believe that God is so egoistically hung up on TESTING whether or not people LOVE HIM that's it can't be described as anything other than truly SICK. Not to mention the FACT that according to the religion overall, God is supposed to already KNOW what's in our hearts and there is NOTHING we can hide from God! Can't you see the oxymoronic situation here? A God who is supposed to KNOW what's in your heart and yet he doesn't TRUST anyone? But this wasn't the REASON that I gave up on the Bible. Actually back when I rejected it I WANTED to believe it! I didn't think about all these gory details at that time. It was my intention to TEACH IT! So you are way off base trying to portray me as a skeptic who never wanted to believe it. That's simply a completely fabrication on your part and you even KNOW IT. You've heard my history before, to try and portray me now as someone who never wanted the Bible to be true is downright deception and nothing short of dishonest. Originally I wanted the Bible to be truth, moreover I BELIEVED it was true! But that was BEFORE I READ IT! Yes, let's face it, it's NOT IMPORTANT to read the Bible to become a Christian. In fact MOST Christians have no clue what's even in the Bible. They just accept Jesus Christ as their Savior and go on their merry way. If they do read the Bible they DON'T QUESTION IT, then just say, "Well God must have his reasons, he knows best". But I wanted to TEACH the Bible! Telling people "Well God must have his reasons" every time someone asks me to explain something did not cut it for me. Besides people are always saying that the Bible contains ANSWERS to every question. Welll, surely if that's true then it must contain answer to questions that people might normally ask. The TRUTH it that it DOESN'T. That's the TRUTH. No one can even tell you why God can't forgive people unless they've butchered an animals. IT DOESN'T SAY in the Bible why God is APPEASED by blood sacrifices. Now that's a question that should be explained. I can explain it! It's because the authors weren't even being ORIGINAL when they made it up. It's no different than any other Mediterranean Mythologies. Also, there's the issue of why the "Jesus Story" was told hundreds of years before Jesus was born in so MANY different forms. The people who WANT the Bible to be true are trying to claim that the Devil had people make up these stories so that modern generations would see this and think that it's just a plagiarized myth. But that would mean TWO THINGS. First, it implies that Satan knows what God is going to do BEFORE God does it, and secondly it implies that God never KNEW that Satan had done that since he never bothered mentioning in the Bible that those stories existed. The only reason I take about not WANTING the Bible to be true is when people come at me from the point of view of pure FAITH. Why would anyone WANT the biblical story to be true? Why would you WANT it to be true? The story claims that all of humanity fell from grace from our creator and that he had to have his son slaughtered just to save our totally UNWORTHY butts. Why would anyone WANT such a story to be true? I think clearly any SANE person would be truly saddened if the Bible IS TRUE. There most certainly is nothing to 'Rejoice" about if it were true. If Jesus had to die on the Cross it's YOUR FAULT! That's what the Bible is saying! Why would you want to that to be TRUE ON PURE FAITH? That's a faith issue, that you have never addressed in all the times that I've asked it? Why do you WANT it to be true that you've failed your creator and he had to have his son brutally murdered and publicly humiliated to SAVE your butt? Why would you WANT that to be true? And would you be disappointed if you discovered that it wasn't true? If you found out today in no uncertain terms that the Bible is entirely made up by man would you be disappointed? If so why? Do you like the idea that a God had to have his son butchered to pay for your sinful ways? And if you don't like that picture then why believe it on PURE FAITH ALONE? Why fight so hard to support such an ugly picture of not only man, but of God as well? Surely you can see that MAJOR PROBLEM with the WHOLE PICTURE. You supposedly have an ALL-PERFECT creator creating a PERFECT world and then sin miraculously comes into this picture from NOWHERE! That's absurd already. If there was a perfect creator that created an imperfect universe he'd have no one to blame but himself. The idea that it's because he gave people FREE WILL just doesn't cut it. Giving people FREE WILL doesn't automatically create evil. In fact, if God's heaven was supposed to be PERFECT then why did a fully their of God's angels not like it? Clearly it must not have been PERFECT from their point of view. So now we're struck with a 'subjectively perfect' heaven that some people think is perfect and others do not. There can be no such things as ABSOLUTE PERFECTION if we have so many angels disagreeing that it's PERFECT. The whole story is an oxymoronic story Eljay. Trying to discredit people who recognize this by trying to claim that it's just because they don't want it to be true is truly a dishonest tactic. To the people who are interested in REASON I hold that the Bible and the Biblical God is UNREASONABLE. Therefore if we are to believe in the Bible we must believe that God is UNREASONABLE. When reading the Bible all we need to do is ask ourselves the following two questions? 1. Would a truly all-wise, loving God have written or done the things the Bible claims? 2. Would men who are trying to put fear into their readers make this stuff up? When I do that I find myself answering NO to the first question constantly, and YES to the second question all the time. So which question is more likely to be true based on REASON? To the people who claim that we must have FAITH, I say the following: Why would I want to have FAITH that our creator is at war with a measly fallen angel? Why would I want to have FAITH that all of mankind has fallen from grace from God? Why would I want to have FAITH that the only way to obtain the LOVE of this God is to believe that he had his son slaughtered on a pole to pay for my pathetic rebellious behavior? Why would I want to have FAITH that if I can't find the story believable this God will cast me into a pit of eternal damnation even though I'm actually a good person but just couldn't buy into this horror story? Why would I want to have FAITH that God is UNREASONABLE? Yes, you are right about that. Now that I look at this unreasonable book in GREAT DETAIL for over 40 years of LIFE, I've come to the final conclusion that I don't want it to be True. It's a horror story about a God who will send innocent people to hell just because they refuse to believe that God is an insane madman who's at war with a fallen angel, and keeps changing his mind about how he wants to deal with humanity (i.e. one moment he's flushing them away in a global flood, and the next moment he's having his son nailed to a pole so he can forgive them their sins). Hey, as far as I'm concerned BOTH of those solutions to his problems are EQUALLY SICK! This is a story about a supposedly FATHER IMAGE God who has failed MISERABLY as a father and now he's taking it all out on his children. If he were a human being he's be in jail on child abuse charges. And you expect me to accept this story ON PURE FAITH when there is NO REASONABLE reason to believe it? That's crazy. The story is as absurd as Greek Mythology if not more absurd. Yet you don't seem to have any problem at all chalking Zeus off as a lost cause. Why do you cling to this absurd picture when it's basically proven itself to be anything but divine. Abra; I did not say that you never wanted the bible to be true. I simply said you don't want the bible to be true. This post here demonstrates it by your own words - and it's not the first time you've said it. You're just the poster child for it. I really couldn't care less how you came about your conclusion - or whether you made the decision 30 years ago, or last year. You prove my point. You don't want the bible to be true. It matters not what pretextual arguments you attempt to create to support your view - it never comes from context anyway. So be it. If the bible were true that would be horrible. A god that kills babies and commands people to kill their own childern. You have to be a bit sick in the head to want the bible to be true. I hate to have to break this to you - but God kills everyone. This is a demonstratable - "SCIENTIFIC FACT". The bible says it is the "soul who sins who will die" - and that "all men sin" We observe that everyone dies. So what's your point? Scientifc Fact?   There is nothing scientific or factual about a god. |
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I hate to have to break this to you - but God kills everyone. This is a demonstratable - "SCIENTIFIC FACT". The bible says it is the "soul who sins who will die" - and that "all men sin" We observe that everyone dies. So what's your point? Wow. I mean, really. Scientific Fact? That is laughable. Yes everybody dies, but it is more likely that the corrupt writers of the "holy" text noted that everyone died, and put their own reasons in there to explain it away. Since it is easier to take the ignorant approach, and say "God kills people" then it is to try to actually find the real reasons behind the cause of death. |
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If one's faith is in the Judeo/Christain God - the biblical authors have no reason to be doubted. That's an oxymoronic statement right there. The very fact that you've put FAITH in that picture is what prevents you from doubting it. But it doesn't change the argument. Perhaps you are unfamiliar with the number of times it has been posted that people just don't want the bible to be true. Check a few dozen of Abra's posts - he's not kept this a secret. And I don't understand what makes you think that someone who believes in the bible hasn't investigated it. This is also a total farce. It's true that today AFTER all my studies and realizations I would not want the Bible to be true. Why should I? If you believe in what the Bible says it's about a God who cast countless INNOCENT people into an eternal hell fire. It's about a God who places BETS with a supposedly demonic angel where human souls are the poker chips! It's about a God who is mean to people who supposedly already love him and are already his LOYAL SERVANTS. To believe in the Bible you truly need to believe that God is so egoistically hung up on TESTING whether or not people LOVE HIM that's it can't be described as anything other than truly SICK. Not to mention the FACT that according to the religion overall, God is supposed to already KNOW what's in our hearts and there is NOTHING we can hide from God! Can't you see the oxymoronic situation here? A God who is supposed to KNOW what's in your heart and yet he doesn't TRUST anyone? But this wasn't the REASON that I gave up on the Bible. Actually back when I rejected it I WANTED to believe it! I didn't think about all these gory details at that time. It was my intention to TEACH IT! So you are way off base trying to portray me as a skeptic who never wanted to believe it. That's simply a completely fabrication on your part and you even KNOW IT. You've heard my history before, to try and portray me now as someone who never wanted the Bible to be true is downright deception and nothing short of dishonest. Originally I wanted the Bible to be truth, moreover I BELIEVED it was true! But that was BEFORE I READ IT! Yes, let's face it, it's NOT IMPORTANT to read the Bible to become a Christian. In fact MOST Christians have no clue what's even in the Bible. They just accept Jesus Christ as their Savior and go on their merry way. If they do read the Bible they DON'T QUESTION IT, then just say, "Well God must have his reasons, he knows best". But I wanted to TEACH the Bible! Telling people "Well God must have his reasons" every time someone asks me to explain something did not cut it for me. Besides people are always saying that the Bible contains ANSWERS to every question. Welll, surely if that's true then it must contain answer to questions that people might normally ask. The TRUTH it that it DOESN'T. That's the TRUTH. No one can even tell you why God can't forgive people unless they've butchered an animals. IT DOESN'T SAY in the Bible why God is APPEASED by blood sacrifices. Now that's a question that should be explained. I can explain it! It's because the authors weren't even being ORIGINAL when they made it up. It's no different than any other Mediterranean Mythologies. Also, there's the issue of why the "Jesus Story" was told hundreds of years before Jesus was born in so MANY different forms. The people who WANT the Bible to be true are trying to claim that the Devil had people make up these stories so that modern generations would see this and think that it's just a plagiarized myth. But that would mean TWO THINGS. First, it implies that Satan knows what God is going to do BEFORE God does it, and secondly it implies that God never KNEW that Satan had done that since he never bothered mentioning in the Bible that those stories existed. The only reason I take about not WANTING the Bible to be true is when people come at me from the point of view of pure FAITH. Why would anyone WANT the biblical story to be true? Why would you WANT it to be true? The story claims that all of humanity fell from grace from our creator and that he had to have his son slaughtered just to save our totally UNWORTHY butts. Why would anyone WANT such a story to be true? I think clearly any SANE person would be truly saddened if the Bible IS TRUE. There most certainly is nothing to 'Rejoice" about if it were true. If Jesus had to die on the Cross it's YOUR FAULT! That's what the Bible is saying! Why would you want to that to be TRUE ON PURE FAITH? That's a faith issue, that you have never addressed in all the times that I've asked it? Why do you WANT it to be true that you've failed your creator and he had to have his son brutally murdered and publicly humiliated to SAVE your butt? Why would you WANT that to be true? And would you be disappointed if you discovered that it wasn't true? If you found out today in no uncertain terms that the Bible is entirely made up by man would you be disappointed? If so why? Do you like the idea that a God had to have his son butchered to pay for your sinful ways? And if you don't like that picture then why believe it on PURE FAITH ALONE? Why fight so hard to support such an ugly picture of not only man, but of God as well? Surely you can see that MAJOR PROBLEM with the WHOLE PICTURE. You supposedly have an ALL-PERFECT creator creating a PERFECT world and then sin miraculously comes into this picture from NOWHERE! That's absurd already. If there was a perfect creator that created an imperfect universe he'd have no one to blame but himself. The idea that it's because he gave people FREE WILL just doesn't cut it. Giving people FREE WILL doesn't automatically create evil. In fact, if God's heaven was supposed to be PERFECT then why did a fully their of God's angels not like it? Clearly it must not have been PERFECT from their point of view. So now we're struck with a 'subjectively perfect' heaven that some people think is perfect and others do not. There can be no such things as ABSOLUTE PERFECTION if we have so many angels disagreeing that it's PERFECT. The whole story is an oxymoronic story Eljay. Trying to discredit people who recognize this by trying to claim that it's just because they don't want it to be true is truly a dishonest tactic. To the people who are interested in REASON I hold that the Bible and the Biblical God is UNREASONABLE. Therefore if we are to believe in the Bible we must believe that God is UNREASONABLE. When reading the Bible all we need to do is ask ourselves the following two questions? 1. Would a truly all-wise, loving God have written or done the things the Bible claims? 2. Would men who are trying to put fear into their readers make this stuff up? When I do that I find myself answering NO to the first question constantly, and YES to the second question all the time. So which question is more likely to be true based on REASON? To the people who claim that we must have FAITH, I say the following: Why would I want to have FAITH that our creator is at war with a measly fallen angel? Why would I want to have FAITH that all of mankind has fallen from grace from God? Why would I want to have FAITH that the only way to obtain the LOVE of this God is to believe that he had his son slaughtered on a pole to pay for my pathetic rebellious behavior? Why would I want to have FAITH that if I can't find the story believable this God will cast me into a pit of eternal damnation even though I'm actually a good person but just couldn't buy into this horror story? Why would I want to have FAITH that God is UNREASONABLE? Yes, you are right about that. Now that I look at this unreasonable book in GREAT DETAIL for over 40 years of LIFE, I've come to the final conclusion that I don't want it to be True. It's a horror story about a God who will send innocent people to hell just because they refuse to believe that God is an insane madman who's at war with a fallen angel, and keeps changing his mind about how he wants to deal with humanity (i.e. one moment he's flushing them away in a global flood, and the next moment he's having his son nailed to a pole so he can forgive them their sins). Hey, as far as I'm concerned BOTH of those solutions to his problems are EQUALLY SICK! This is a story about a supposedly FATHER IMAGE God who has failed MISERABLY as a father and now he's taking it all out on his children. If he were a human being he's be in jail on child abuse charges. And you expect me to accept this story ON PURE FAITH when there is NO REASONABLE reason to believe it? That's crazy. The story is as absurd as Greek Mythology if not more absurd. Yet you don't seem to have any problem at all chalking Zeus off as a lost cause. Why do you cling to this absurd picture when it's basically proven itself to be anything but divine. Abra; I did not say that you never wanted the bible to be true. I simply said you don't want the bible to be true. This post here demonstrates it by your own words - and it's not the first time you've said it. You're just the poster child for it. I really couldn't care less how you came about your conclusion - or whether you made the decision 30 years ago, or last year. You prove my point. You don't want the bible to be true. It matters not what pretextual arguments you attempt to create to support your view - it never comes from context anyway. So be it. If the bible were true that would be horrible. A god that kills babies and commands people to kill their own childern. You have to be a bit sick in the head to want the bible to be true. I hate to have to break this to you - but God kills everyone. This is a demonstratable - "SCIENTIFIC FACT". The bible says it is the "soul who sins who will die" - and that "all men sin" We observe that everyone dies. So what's your point? Scientifc Fact? There is nothing scientific or factual about a god. Just in case you need a little help with your comprehensive reading. The "scientific fact" is that everyone dies. |
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I hate to have to break this to you - but God kills everyone. This is a demonstratable - "SCIENTIFIC FACT". The bible says it is the "soul who sins who will die" - and that "all men sin" We observe that everyone dies. So what's your point? Wow. I mean, really. Scientific Fact? That is laughable. Yes everybody dies, but it is more likely that the corrupt writers of the "holy" text noted that everyone died, and put their own reasons in there to explain it away. Since it is easier to take the ignorant approach, and say "God kills people" then it is to try to actually find the real reasons behind the cause of death. Same with you. Comprehensive reading. The scientific fact is that everyone dies. Please tell me that you figured this out. |
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Abra; I did not say that you never wanted the bible to be true. I simply said you don't want the bible to be true. This post here demonstrates it by your own words - and it's not the first time you've said it. You're just the poster child for it. I really couldn't care less how you came about your conclusion - or whether you made the decision 30 years ago, or last year. You prove my point. You don't want the bible to be true. It matters not what pretextual arguments you attempt to create to support your view - it never comes from context anyway. So be it. Oh but it absolutely does matter. You're trying to make it appear that I should just be chalked off as someone who doesn't want the Bible to be true because that's my motivation. But it's NOT my motivation. It's just a realization after I had already recognized that it can't be true anyway. So it's not relavent to the way that you were attempting to imply it should be relavent. You're arguments that science is faith-based are truly without merit at all and are clearly religiously motivated which is indeed a believe based on pure faith. If you were to attempt to teach your ideas in schools parents would indeed have every right to object to you teching such lies. Because they are indeed lies. Science is not faith-based. That's a lie. Religious beliefs are not on the same footing with science. That's also a lie. You can claim ignorance until the cows come home, but the things you are attemtping to pass off as 'truths' hold no truth whatsoever. They are indeed false by any rational standard. Science is not faith-based, and religion does not carry the same merit. Those are false claims. (i.e. outright lies actually) You can claim to "believe" those concepts yourself, but that doesn't give them merit. I can claim to believe in a purple people eater too. That doesn't give the idea merit. |
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Eljay,
I'd also like to point out that once again you've totally evaded my concern, as you always have. Why would anyone want the Bible to be true? Why would you want it to be true that mankind has fallen from grace from his creator and the only way to get back into creator is to have that God sacrifice his son to pay for your sins. In all honesty Eljay, I can't imagine anyone actually wanting the Bible to be true. You'd have to be an emotional sadomasochist to actually want the Bible to be true. Anyone who wouldn't be absolutely thrilled to discover that the Bible is false would necessarily need to be a seriously demented person. No one should actually want the Bible to be true. No one. That's would be utterly ludicous. And you have never even suggesting that you're happy about the idea that you've failed your creator and he had to have his son butchered on a pole to pay for youre bad behavior. I don't believe that you would WANT that to be true either. No sane person would want such a thing to be true. So surely you don't fight for the Bible because you want it to be true. You must be fighting for it because you FEAR that it MIGHT be true. That can be the ONLY reason. No sane person would want the BIble to be true. |
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Edited by
MorningSong
on
Mon 03/09/09 01:06 AM
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WHY did God give His only begotten son,
to die on a cross for us , in order that all mankind may be saved? Because it was a PLAN where God would NOT GO AGAINST HIS WORD !!!!! See...the thing is this: God CAN'T and WON'T EVER GO AGAINST His WORD!!!!!! EVER!! And so , God's plan of redemption for mankind was perfect...... cause God never went against His Word , to carry out His plan of salvation for mankind.  Oh...one more thing.... God ALSO can't and won't go against man's free will either... otherwise ,God also would be going against His Word!!!! That is why God leaves it up to man...... to either choose to accept Jesus....or choose to reject Jesus. The CHOICE is left up to US!! See...God sends NO one to hell...... IF God did that, He would be GOING AGAINST HIS WORD!!!!! Point being.... God does NOT send man to hell EVER.... man sends himself there....by rejecting God!!! Again...God will NEVER go against His Word. And one last time also..... If God said in His Word that all things reproduce after its own kind...that's it. It's settled. Because God's Word does NOT change...but REMAINS THE SAME..... YESTERDAY TODAY AND FOREVER!!! So..why did God do things the way He did? Simple. ALL THAT GOD DID..... LINES UP WITH GOD'S WORD. IF God did things any different, He would be a Liar.... and inconsistant....but God is not a Liar or Inconsistant.... but instead, God is PERFECT IN ALL HIS WAYS!!!!  Trust God today. READ the WORD...for REAL now..and LEARN. GOD and HIS WORD ARE ONE!!! There is a WEALTH of RICHES IN GOD'S WORD. Ask God to OPEN your spiritual eyes now....so that you may SEE..... the depth of riches that is contained in God's Word. Until then ,the Word will NOT make sense ,and understandably so. But the Word WILL make PERFECT SENSE, once your eyes have finally been OPENED!!! Promise!!! Be Blessed Now, Everyone!!! 
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The WORD is spiritual BREAD fro those who already are born of God.
The Word cannot be digested by those who are not yet born again. However, Faith can come by HEARING the Word... but after Faith to believe comes..... THEN the WORD becomes LIFE..the BREAD OF LIFE to the Believer. Once more.... Ask God to open your eyes....so you too , may SEE the vast riches and beauty , contained within the pages of that book, called the Bible...the WORD of GOD. Be Very Blessed Now..... |
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Edited by
MorningSong
on
Mon 03/09/09 01:53 AM
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WHEN ONE COMES TO CHRIST BY FAITH.....
OLD THINGS ARE PASSED AWAY... BEHOLD, ALL THINGS ARE MADE NEW. JUST IMAGINE..... A BRAND NEW LIFE IN CHRIST JESUS!!! NEW BEGINNINGS. NEW FOUND HOPE. AND JOY UNSPEAKABLE!!!! AND PEACE BEYOND ALL UNDERSTANDING. SO.....WHAT ARE YOU WAITNG FOR? 
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This thread really should be in the humour section
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I hate to have to break this to you - but God kills everyone. This is a demonstratable - "SCIENTIFIC FACT". The bible says it is the "soul who sins who will die" - and that "all men sin" We observe that everyone dies. So what's your point? Wow. I mean, really. Scientific Fact? That is laughable. Yes everybody dies, but it is more likely that the corrupt writers of the "holy" text noted that everyone died, and put their own reasons in there to explain it away. Since it is easier to take the ignorant approach, and say "God kills people" then it is to try to actually find the real reasons behind the cause of death. Same with you. Comprehensive reading. The scientific fact is that everyone dies. Please tell me that you figured this out. You really love twisting your words so that you are "right". When "God kills everyone. This is a demonstratable - "SCIENTIFIC FACT"." Is said, you aren't saying that everyone dying is the scientific fact, you are saying that God killing everyone is a scientific fact. This is the second time you have attacked my "reading comprehension" when I wasn't the only one to take your words as they were written. That should tell you it's not our reading comprehension that is the problem, but your ability to convey what you truly mean to say. But of course, you won't stop doing this, because you feel that by doing this it discredits us, and gives you the feeling of being better than us. But, the reality it you are only fooling yourself. |
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God ALSO can't and won't go against man's free will either... otherwise ,God also would be going against His Word!!!! You're truly living in a dream world MorningSong. According to the Bible the wages of sin is death. Sin is nothing more than disobedience of God. According to the Bible to even think of a sinful thing is the same as doing it. I think Jesus may have even said that. Therefore by God's "word" (assuming that the Bible is God's word), God has absolutley no responsibility to allow anyone to do anything that he does not approve of. Acording to "His Word" he has every right to strike anyone dead the very instant they so much as think about doing something he disappoves of. So your claim that God must allow men to have free will simply doesn't agree with that the Bible is saying. According to the Bible God can strike anyone dead just based on how they think even before they actualy act. Moreover, according to the Bible God has already done that to both the Egyptians and the Canaanites, not to mention doing it to the whole world during the Great Flood including innocent little babies the couldn't possibly disobey God since they wouldn't even know about him at that point. So your claim that God has to allow men to have free will and act on it just doesn't agree with the doctrine that you claim to be preaching. You're just making up your own fairytale. The Bible simply doesn't back up your claim. The wages of sin are death, and just the thought of disobeying God is sin. Therefore God has the right to kill anyone at any time and he has absolute no obligation to allow anyone to acutally carry out a bad thought. So you're just making up your own religion that doesn't agree with the Bible at all. But that's ok, that's what 99.9% or Christians actually do. That's why they have so many denominations and can never agree with each other on anything.  Nice try though with all the big bold blue letters in all CAPS. Is that supposed to be some kind of implication that you're actually speaking the "word of God" through a trumpet or something? I thought only the Pope could speak for God? Oh wait, you're one of those rebel prostesters. Nevermind. |
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