Topic: Witchcraft and Shamanism - part 2
Ruth34611's photo
Thu 03/05/09 05:22 AM
Hi, Shannon. flowerforyou Welcome to the thread and thanks for sharing that. Abracadabra may very well have some good suggestions for you as far as continuing your studies on your own. It's always nice to have someone to learn under but I wouldn't give up due to not having a teacher right now. All the right information and the right teachers come as you need them and as you are ready if you really want to learn.

Abracadabra's photo
Thu 03/05/09 03:58 PM

I studied Shamanism for a couple years in my teens. I also studied some books on wicca. As far as chakras and whatnot go, would do the visualization exercises to open them and channel energy. I found it to be extrememly interesting, and very familiar.


Hi Shannon,

I could talk for hours on Shamanism and Chakras and I've only been studying it for about four months now, although it's been a pretty instense study.

I must confess though that my views have indeed been guided by my own intution. I was very fortunate that Ruth pointed me to some good starter books. The first one was by Scott Cunningham. I really liked this openness to doing your own thing and basically insisted that to do Wicca correctly you must follow your own instincts actually. It's very much a spirituality that is based on following your own path.

Having said that, there are, of course, traditions and folklore that help illuminate the many pathways. But like the rabbit in alice in wonderland, the caverns you decide to explore must be your own.

From Cunningham's very basic introduction I quickly moved onto Penczak's books on Witchcraft (also recommended by Ruth). I find the Penczak books to be very helpful. Each one is designed as a year-and-a-day course. I've actually started in on three of them simultaneously.

1. The Inner Temple of Witchcraft
2. The Outer Temple of Witchcraft
3. The Shamanic Temple of Witchcraft

As both Cunningham and Penczak suggest, I'm continuing on my studies in a way that feels intuitively correct for me. Even though I'm using three of Penczak's books as foundational guidelines, there is far more to it than what is presented in his books. In fact, his lessons include doing your own research.

So to complete a Penczak course is to do much more than he has written in his books.

I wish I could share much of what I have done. Unfortunately, even though I'm only four months into it, there is far too much to share quickly already. And much of it would be difficult to put into writing.

One thing I found for myself is that the keeping of journals is paramount. I am currently keeping six journals.

The Inner Temple Journal - Llewellyn Tarot - Heart chakra
The Outer Temple Journal - Rider Waite Tarot - Solar Chakra
The Shamanic Temple Journal - Dragon Tarot - Mind Chakra
The Chakra Healing Journal - Renaissance Tarot - Spirit Charka
The Spiritual Garden Journal - Mystic Faerie Tarot - Life Chakra
The Journal of Art, Music, & Creativity - Enchanted Tarot- Voice Chakra.

Notice that I associate each Journal with a tarot deck and a specific Chakra. This is something that came into being on its own. It just fell into place for me naturally out of the blue. I wouldn't even begin to suggest this is right for anyone else, but it all stemmed from a strong desire to organize my thoughts. And this system is working very well for me.

I went to the "Dollar Tree" store and bought a bunch of blank hardcover books. Those are what I use for my journals. I always write in them using a special caligraphy pen. I also use extensive use of symbols which I write quite often when journalling.

I almost forgot, I use different names for the chakra than most people so let me give you my convention here:

Standard naming - My naming

Crown - Spirit
Brow (or Third Eye) - Mind
Throat - Voice
Heart - Heart
Solar Plexus - Solar
Sacral - Love
Root - Life

I have reasons for my name changes that I won't go into. But you may notice that I have a chakra associated with each of my journals. I actually did that after I had started the six journals, and they chakras matched up very well. But alas I had one chakra left over with no journal. Actaully that was quite the epiphany. The chakra that is left over is the love chakra. Specially romantic love. I've been single all my life, and I'm quite the hermit, and this has indeed indicated to me that this element of my life has indeed been missing, not only from my journals, but from my entire life as well.

At first I was going to make up a seventh journal, "The Love Journal". But I decided to hold off on that for now. I simply have nothing to write on those pages as this point in my life. Perhaps someday that will change.


I had a tape I bought at a second hand spiritual store called "The soul retrieval journey" by sandra ingerman.


I recently bought one of her books with a shamanic drumming CD. I've already read the book and I've been journying to her drumming. Quite interesting. So as you see, I'm doing more than just the Penczak lessons, but in a sense this is part of that.

Another thing that you might find strange is that I've also been watching a lot of Deepak Chopra Videos, and I've been studying Buddhism and reading about it in depth. Buddhism and Shamanism are very closely related, as is witchcraft. Again, I can't get into all that, but my pathway is as much "Eastern Mystiscism" as it is "Celtic", or "Wiccan".


Unfortunately, I never found someone to make me their apprentice, and that just kinda went on the back burner ever since.


The thing I've learned is that you don't need live human gurus. You can be lead by the spirits in the spirit world. You find them in your shamanic journeys, as well as in your everyday life.

I must go now as I always blab too much and Jill gets on my case about it. laugh

But really I have things to do, but I could rattle on here forever.

Just before I go let me also say that I'm building a labrinth garden associated with all of this, and it's quite an involved project. I've recently bought a bunch of fairy statues for in the labyrinth garden. I've named them all and I talk to them everyday.

I would have never thought that I'd be doing this as I am quite the pragmatic scientist actually. I've studied and taught physics and mathematics all my life. And now I'm talking to stone fairies. laugh

But my cottage has really come to life with this fae. I've also been getting lots of cyrstals, and I just bought a whole lot of house plants. There were like 3 in a pot and I bought about 10 of them (plus a few odd ones here and there). I just got done transplanting them into seperate pots and now I have over 30 house plants sitting all round the fae. I can catch the fairies smiling every once in a while (if you turn to look at them real quick)

These plants are growing so quickly it's unbelievable. Sometimes I swear I can actually SEE them growing!

So I already have the fantasy garden in my cottage. And I journey through it in my dreams. These same fae are in the dreams but in the dreams they come alive and talk with me.

There's so much more too. I just can't tell it all. Too much happening. And the only point I really wanted to make is that you can find your spirit guide in your dreams. You don't need a live human to guide you. And don't forget the journals!

Gotta run! Nice meeting you! waving

Jill298's photo
Thu 03/05/09 04:00 PM
I must go now as I always blab too much and Jill gets on my case about it.

:laughing: 1 time!! 1 time!! and it was a joke:laughing: :laughing: :laughing:

Donn1's photo
Thu 03/05/09 05:13 PM
At the risk of being pretentious... I would suggest a very intensely good book to begin shamanic studies would be, The Underworld Initiation by R.J. Stewart.
this is from the traditional European perspective, not wiccan or native american.


Abracadabra's photo
Thu 03/05/09 06:53 PM

At the risk of being pretentious... I would suggest a very intensely good book to begin shamanic studies would be, The Underworld Initiation by R.J. Stewart.
this is from the traditional European perspective, not wiccan or native american.


That looks like a really good book Donn. I wouldn't mind reading it myself. I don't following any tradition specifically, but I find all traditions interesting.

Even though I'm studying "Penczak's" courses, his courses are designed for the free-thinker. He just tries to describe the possiblities and suggests to the reader to delve in deeply to the parts that hit home, and just gloss over the parts that don't seem to fit. He's also really big on encouraging the reading and studying of other materials. So he's definitely not trying to 'steal the show'. :smile:

I just looked,... Penczak actually cites R.J. Stewarts books in his bibliography in the Shamanic Temple book. So he has it on his list of recommended reading.

I never would have believed in "faeries" being a scientist. But that's because I was looking at them as being part of THIS WORLD. They aren't. They are in the Underworld. That's precisely what Stewart is saying.

They are spirit.

So really they are out of the realm of science anyway because science is only concerned with the Middle World.

Another thing that I found facinating as I study this stuff is that this isn't just restricted to specific traditions. I mean, some people like to believe that, and that's fine if that helps them. But where one culture see faeries, another cultures sees angels. They both attribute them to a spirit world, and they think they are totally different things because they envision them differently. But they aren't really.

From my studies what I'm finding is that spirits will appear to us in whatever form we 'allow' them to exist in our imagination. We need to build the 'vehicle of manifestation' for them. But then they will gladly occupy it.

I imagine that what Stewart does is build a really solid backdrop for this manifestation process to unfold. And for this reason alone I think I would find his books quite useful on a psychic level.

One thing that has truly excited me recently has to do with my study of Buddhism. In some of it's forms the Mahayana Buddhists believe in becoming bodhisattva.

A bodhisattva is a person who has decided to postpone nirvana in favor of remaining available to help other humans find their way.

This is taken very seriously by Mahayana Buddhists. And basically what they are talking about is becomeing "Spirit Guides" to help other humans after they die, and before they move on to nirvana.

Some people have suggested that when all humans die they are automatically given this choice anyway. Others believe that it may not even be a choice, but a necessary 'rite of passage' to nivrana.

In any case, these seemingly unrelated beliefs of totally different cultures often come together to make sense. In other words, the fae in the Underworld are actually "helper spirits" who have chosen to help people find their way.

Do fae exist outside of our imagination? Well, my answer to that question would be both yes, and no.

Yes, helper spirit exist, which will take the appearance of fae if we make that option available to them.

And No, faeries don't exist outside of our imagination. But helper spirits do! And helper spirits can use our imagined fae as vehicles through which to communicate with us. Thus bringing the faeries to LIFE.

Some people perfer to imagine angels, other's prefer to imagine fairies. I believe that anything can work. Whatever the shaman finds most easy to believe in and is most attracted to will probably work the best for that shaman.

I personally perfer faeries over angels simply because I associate angels with a religion that I'd rather not think about anymore. laugh

In any case, I think I'd enjoy reading that book. I'll have to look into picking up a copy. Thanks for bringing it to my attention.

Donn1's photo
Thu 03/05/09 08:04 PM
there is a danger of confusion when mixing various cultural archetypes and traditions.
magick is a language of symbolism, when mixing symbolism's, you create a sense of confusion.
language is about communication, you do not communicate adequately when mixing metaphors so to speak.
this is not to say that mixing various systems won't work, I am speaking more in terms of efficiency.
I too have a background in the sciences, studied Anthropology in school, as well as physics.
to my mind magick is a jungian approach to symbolic manipulation with the subtlties of quantum mechanics describing the interactions.
assuming that one cultural symbolic tradition is the only model would be rather foolish, however, understanding that the symbolisms are truly only effective at full efficiency when the symbolisms are instinctively unconsciously understood, this only comes from immersion in the culture that created the symbolism being applied. Ie "growing up" in the environment controlled by the symbolism.
some ideas do not translate at all. a good example would be the idea of reincarnation, which prior to the 19th century period of colonialism, was unknown in European culture prior to the conquest of the Indian sub continent. the ancient Europeans, based upon the burial customs as well as myths, believed in transmigration, a form of spiritual evolution, culminating in existence as "human" followed by the afterlife, Hades, Valhalla, Hel, Tir nan na Gogh etc.
the point being, the two Ideas, reincarnation, and transmigration are actually quite disparate.
the mixing of those ideas cannot be efficient, the terms and variables are radically different.


Abracadabra's photo
Thu 03/05/09 09:22 PM

there is a danger of confusion when mixing various cultural archetypes and traditions. magick is a language of symbolism, when mixing symbolism's, you create a sense of confusion. language is about communication, you do not communicate adequately when mixing metaphors so to speak.


Yes, I fully understand what you are saying, and I totally agree.

Magick (and psychic communication with spirits) does indeed need to be coherent within a cultural archetype. I do understand this and I even understand why it must be so as the subconscious mind does indeed use symbolism as its language. So mixing metaphors would be like attempting to speak to someone using many different languages within each sentence. It would confuse anyone because they would be trying to figure out which language you are speaking.

So I'm in total agreement that a book like Stewart's would be a very useful guide indeed because it would convey the language of the fae which is what a person needs to learn if they are to communicate with fae.

I'm actually looking to find a copy of the book. It appears to only be available through used book sources, and it ranges from about $30 to over $100.

When I was comparing the different cultures, I didn't mean to suggest to take all that garbage into a shamanic journey with you. :wink:

I was just making an observation of how the beliefs of different cultures actually support each other in many ways.

But yes, everyone I've read thus far, Cunningham, Penczak, Ingerman, even Chopra a Buddhist, have suggested the importance of choosing a specific mythology or pantheon and sticking to it.

I have only recently realized that the Faerie realm is for me, so I will be very interested in Stewart's book and I'm definitely going to see if I can get my hands on a copy of it.

Abracadabra's photo
Thu 03/05/09 09:29 PM
In fact, Ruth was just telling Shannon that guides come along to share information with us just as we need it.

In a very real sense Donn, you are sharing with me something that I need at this particular point in time by mentioning Stewart's book.

So there you go Shannon. Guides are all around you, and you never know who they will be. :wink:

Donn1's photo
Fri 03/06/09 09:22 AM
Abracadabra, if you truly wish to learn of the fae, understand that the Tuatha de Dannaan, or Daoine Sidhe, both the same people, were in fact a people, the megalithic culture. primarily the urnfield/beaker culture.
It is my belief, that the megalith culture was the basis for the legends of Atlantis.
Gerhard Herne has an excellent book called The Celts that I would also recommend. There is also the papers of Dr. Raimund Karl, an anthropologist specializing in the Celts. you can google him and find his stuff on the net.
I believe he is currently teaching at the university of north Wales...
He used to be director of Celtic studies at the University of Vienna. and has an informative discussion list called Celtic L,
Ben Dydd Y Llev Velus!


Abracadabra's photo
Fri 03/06/09 10:34 AM
Thanks for the information Donn.

I am indeed very interested in learning more about the fae. My personal geneaology goes back to the Welsh. I confess that I'm not well-verse in the Welsh culture, but I do believe that they also retained many of the ancient Celtic beliefs.

One thing I've noticed is that I found the Llewellyn tarot to hit very close to home. It is based on Welsh folklore, which I didn't even realize when I was first drawn to it. The other tarot that drew me in is the Mystic Faerie Tarot, once again based on traditions that must be somewhat along these lines.

Penczak, whom I find as a great "generic" teacher, has suggested that the reader should pick a mythology or pantheon and study it in depth. He didn't point to any particular tradition as he feels that will be different for each shaman.

Well, for me personally this was a bit of a problem because initially I didn't know what to choose. Any mythology is open game, even the seemingly dogmatic Mediterranean mythologies. In fact, according to Penczak many withces have indeed incorporated much of Greek Mythology into their traditions and symbology. Even Christian themes have been adopted by many witches, especially with respect to Catholicism which is deeply ritual-based, and often times accepts mystical concepts.

You may of heard of "Catholic Witches". I think there's on lurking nearby actually. laugh

So it was difficult for me to just pick a mythology not really knowing how to go about it. Should it be arbitrary? Or does it come to us intuitively if we give it time? These questions were heavy on my mind for a while. But slowly things began to unfold for me. Again, using Penczak's suggestions I finally began to realize which mythologies and pantheons were calling to me.

I don't mean to sound like I'm worshiping Penczak here, but I would highly recommend him to a newcomer who is trying to get a handle on this form of spirituality from scratch.

In any case, for me, the Faerie World is one of the folklores that is calling to me. But that's certianly not the only one.

I agree with you that mythologies should not be "mixed", especially within a journey. However, at the same time I feel that more than one tradition may be calling. I also feel drawn to the anceint Chinese Toaists, as well as the early Indian pantheists.

I don't view this as being an 'either/or' situation, like in "which one is really for me?". From my point of view that's the wrong question. They are all for me. They just represent different periods in history. As a soul I may have reincarnated from India, to China, and eventually into the Celtic culture before finally becoming a modern day American.

So all of those various traditions would be equally valid and worthy of learning about. I also believe that I can journey into any of those realms. But like you say, when journeying into a particular realm, only the language and traditions of that realm should be used.

This is not unlike visiting different cultures and cities in the middle world as we do all the time. We try to adjust for the culture and languages of the place we're visiting.

So yes, the faerie world is definitely part of my own personal heritage I do believe, and I feel a very strong calling to it. So I will be interested in looking into these books that you have mentioned and taking what they have to say very seriously.

Donn1's photo
Fri 03/06/09 11:50 AM
I am most likely about to offend a lot of people, however, facts are facts!
The Idea of catholic witches is right on.
The real survival of traditional European pagan practices and beliefs can be found in the dogma and rituals of the catholic church.
a great many of the saints are in fact pagan deities, from holy sites, attributes to feast days.
This is not intended to belittle, insult or attack in any way. so if I offended anyone I had no real intention of that.


Abracadabra's photo
Fri 03/06/09 12:52 PM

I am most likely about to offend a lot of people, however, facts are facts!
The Idea of catholic witches is right on.
The real survival of traditional European pagan practices and beliefs can be found in the dogma and rituals of the catholic church.
a great many of the saints are in fact pagan deities, from holy sites, attributes to feast days.
This is not intended to belittle, insult or attack in any way. so if I offended anyone I had no real intention of that.


I personally believe that any truly respectable and unbaised historian would agree with you completely.

Abracadabra's photo
Fri 03/06/09 02:04 PM
Well this is rather interesting. I looked up Raimund Karl on Google and I ran across the following book. Unfortunately it cost $100. frown


However, the really interesting thing is the map on the front cover:



It appears that they are placing the Celtic civilization basically in the area that is outlined in red, and then further to the East at an earilier period.

This is quite exciting for me because in my mind's eye I had already seen this map. Not verbatim. But basically I've seen a bird's eye view of this land in my shamanic journeys. I knew full well that I was looking at Europe, but the really strang part is that I was drawn precisely to the area outlined in Red here. Even though there were no actaul markings on the landscape in my mind.

None the less I was drawn to this area intuitively as being the place that is calling to me.

At the same time, I also felt drawn toward the east as the place from whence this culture came (that would evenutally lead me to China and then south to India).

But I am awestruck at how the red area that is being outlined is precisely the area of Europe that I feel called to in my shamanic journeys. And I have never seen this map before or anything else that indicated where the Celtics might have lived.

So that's pretty amazing. bigsmile

I'm definitely going to have to order Stewart's book on the land of the fae. That one's $30 as is. This spiritual stuff can be costly. laugh

I've already spent $100 on Penczak books and CDs alone. It was a good investment though, I think. I'm sure Stewart's book will be too. I think I'll have to pass on the $100 atlas though, as much as I would find it quite interesting.




Ruth34611's photo
Fri 03/06/09 06:09 PM


You may of heard of "Catholic Witches". I think there's on lurking nearby actually. laugh




*lurking* :wink:

Donn1's photo
Fri 03/06/09 11:38 PM
the point of origin for the celts is in fact the coastal plains on the north of the black sea. (kurgan culture)
The indo aryan peoples spread out north south east and west!
to the east they were known as the Jian or Xian by the Chinese and in fact founded the first kingdoms to the dismay of the Chinese, nat geo has a neat special showing the opening of jian cullture tomb! a sixfoot plus redhead man in plaid! and his wife a six foot strawberry blond!
so your intuition is on!
it was the indo aryans that destroyed the mohenjo daro/ indus valley culture, and conquered india, creating the caste system, and is why for example krishna in the bagavadgita is blond and fought from a chariot.
now before you think I am implying some sort of racial superiority or any such garbage, let me be clear, I most emphatically am not! the proto celts and indoaryan people had better weapons, armour, and horses, not to mention were somewhat taller and more aggressive due to their red meat diet, they were a pastoral people, the other civilizations they came in contact with were physically smaller due to their diets, were agricultural, and built cities, Which is superior? I cannot tell, they are radically different, that is all.
anyway, also check out Herodotus, Tacitus, and Diodorus Siculus, eye witness contemporaries to the celts. Julius Caesars accounts of the conquest of Gaul is also informative.
another mind blowing book is The Key by John Philip Cohane. and America B.C. by Dr. Barry Fell, what we are generally taught and what is actually known are two different things!
Ben Dydd Y ceridwen.



Abracadabra's photo
Sat 03/07/09 09:13 AM
This is all quite interesting. A person could end up becoming a historian instead of a shaman. laugh

MirrorMirror's photo
Sat 03/07/09 01:13 PM

This is all quite interesting. A person could end up becoming a historian instead of a shaman. laugh



:smile: Maybe they arnt so different.:smile: A shaman is a repository of cultural lore for his/her tribe.:smile:Not much different than a historian.:smile:

Abracadabra's photo
Sat 03/07/09 01:38 PM
The Celts

I'm just totally amazed and a bit peeved actually.

I just when to my local library to see if I could find information on the Celtic Culture. I only found one serious book on the subject called, "The Archeology of the Celtic Society"

But what ticked me off is that they have this listed under FICTION! It's clearly a book on Archeology, it's NOT a book on fiction!

It amazes me how people will just randomly call anything 'fiction' that they don't want to believe in!

Then I found some videos, one of them is called "The Celtic Culture: A Christian Perspective", by the Mormon Church of the Latter day Saints.

What the hell is that all about? huh

There's a limit to how much I can borrow at a time so I passed on that one for now.

Fortunately I found a complete 6-volumn VHS video doctumentary that appears to treat the Celtic society as though it has merit. Again this was listed under FICTION! But I'm sure the people who made this documentary don't view it that way.

I haven't watched it yet. I can only borrow 3 tapes at a time. I got the first to volumes, and the 5 volumn. I'll watch them all eventually but I wanted to see the fifth one because it sounds interesting.

The volumes I got are:

Vol 1: The Celts : In the Beginning

Vol 2: The Celts: Heroes in Defeat

Vol 5: The Celts: Legend and Reality

There are other volumes available that I'll get next week.

This appears to be a very serious documentary with archeological evidence to support it as well.

It says the following on one of these tapes:

"The Celts were peoples of strong religious beliefs, living at a time of great internecine warfare. They developed a complex social structure where women were not excluded from the ruling classes and many tribes had female leaders. Warrior, bards, druids, artists, and craftsman likewise all had special status in Celtic society."

I'm looking forward to learning more about this civilization.

Unfortunately the library had nothing on faeries, fae, or fairys outside of true fiction. THey also didn't have any books by Stewart. So I'll need to buy that one I guess.

I guess I was really fortunate to have found this video documentary series. I'm looking forward to watching it. But it still irks me that this was listed under FICTION.

What are we teaching out children in America? Are we teaching them that everything that doesn't agree with the Mediterranean culture is fiction? huh

I still believe that the Celts, were indeed the people that the authors of the Bible were calling the Canaanites, and all the bad things they had to say about the Canaanites was just demagogurey to excuse their mass murdering of them.

That's what I'm beginning to piece together here.

I may well have been a Canaanite in a past life! Or at least a Celtic anyway. I don't think I came from the Mediterranean Region genetically. In fact, I know that my genealogy goes directly back to the Welsh at least. That much I'm certain of. Prior to that I have no clue, but intuitively it seems to be China and India, not the Mediterranean region. I think my ancestor to the long way around from Africa. laugh

Abracadabra's photo
Sat 03/07/09 01:43 PM


This is all quite interesting. A person could end up becoming a historian instead of a shaman. laugh



:smile: Maybe they arnt so different.:smile: A shaman is a repository of cultural lore for his/her tribe.:smile:Not much different than a historian.:smile:


This is true. After I figure out my history owl have to see if I can find my tribe. bigsmile

Abracadabra's photo
Sat 03/07/09 06:12 PM
Well, I've watched the first two volumes of "The Celts". I'm beginning to see the problem here. It's not so much an argument about whether or not "The Celts" existed, but more of an argument of who should and who shouldn't be classified as a 'Celt'.

Clearly there were cultures living in central Europe that could be referred to as "Celtic" but the problem is that they were so diverse and disorganized that it's almost impossible to treat these various tribes as if they were one culture. About the only thing that historians seem to be in agreement on is the fact that these cultures were quite disorganized and could never rightfully be called an "Empire" or single consistent civilization.

They do have them covering the entire continent of Europe at one time, but again this is more of an evidence of the influence of specific traits and artifacts and traditions than evidence for a single homogeneous kingdom. It also appears that often times these tribes were fighting among themselves, which indicates even more vividly their lack of a central authority.

There also seems to be quite a diverse way of defining what is meant by 'Celtic'. The documentary that I'm watching is quite good with good interviews with historians, archeologists and even biological scientists working with DNA and genealogy trees. The following seems to be the three different criteria for determining if people are "Celtic", or of "Celtic" origin.

1. The language and dialects they speak.
2. The artwork found in their historical sites.
3. Historical evidence of any other culture actually referring to the people as "Celts".

It seems that the Celtic language is quiet common in many parts of Europe, but the DNA genealogy doesn't place the people that speak these languages as being genetic dependence of the people who were actually called "Celts" by the Romans and Greeks specifically.

Celtic-influenced artwork also seems quite prevalent in many places in Europe, but again that appear to be the only connection to the actual "Celts". However, they do say that the artwork is specifically Celtic and it carries with it a lot of religious or philosophical meaning, so the cultures that adopted the artwork most likely also adopted many of the religious beliefs of the original Celts.

Even the criteria of using the Greeks and Romans as a marker for who they actually called "Celts" is a bit vague since it appear that they may have been calling any enemy from the north a "Celt". So it's a bit vague there too.

In short, it appears the civilization in this area of Europe was, at best, very loosely defined and may have actually been a lot of different tribes with different, yet similar beliefs. Clearly they were influencing each other. So the mystery of the Celts appears to boil down to the fact that it's a blanket term that probably refers to many very similar tribes that lived in close proximity with each other and were probably closely related genetically.

As loosely defined as the history is, it's still quite interesting.

It does seem that the further back they go the more coherent their society was. Going back to very early times (several hundred years B.C.E.) it appears that there were two major types of power leaders. These leaders may have coexisted. One is the War Lords, and the other were the Peace Lords.

The War Lords ruled by strength and power keeping people in line via the sword. The Peace Lords were the shamans (often women) who gained their power by their ability to speak with the spirit world, their psychic power is what gave rise to their social power. I won't say that they were always women, because I certainly don't know that, but the examples given in the video were of female priestesses. These were discovered by the burial chambers. Their tombs contained the things that gave them power and the Peace Lords were buried with nary a sword. But lots of wine bottles and chalices. laugh

It is believed that alcohol was a large part of the psychic rituals.

Even back in those early times there was still evidence of trading with the Greeks as Greek objects (particularly wine chalices) were found in with the Celtic objects. The Celtic art was influenced by the Greeks, but was clearly unique in its own right as well.

As time moved forward the Celts multiplied and actually raided bother Greece and Rome. They had the upper hand in the early going most due to the large size of their armies. A Celtic army could be as many as 3 or 4 hundred thousand strong. They weren't very well disciplined and they often drunk when they went into battle. They pillaged and raped rather than conquer, and they would often string the heads of the men they killed hang them on their horse's necks. This was both a sign of their proficiency as a warrior and as a warning to their enemies that their heads could be next.

The Celts were much larger than either the Greeks or the Romans, standing an average of 6 ft tall. The Roman were much shorter closer to just over 5 ft. However, the Romans were much more disciplined, and remained sober in battle. They were forward-looking and learned the weakness of the Celts. The Celt's really had no structure or real organization and were eventually slaughtered by the Romans even though they outnumbered them 4 to 1. Of course, this was getting into more recent history by now, A.D.

But that was really the story of the more southerly "Celts". There were northerly cultures of from the same civilization that become more Earth-friendly. These people became farmers and were more versed in the psychic traditions of the Peace Lords, this is probably where the Druids became popular. I'm just guessing on that.

All of this is just my rough perception from the first two videos that I've watched from this documentary series. Based on the physical locations of these tribes, I still believe that the Canaanites that were mentioned in the history of the Israelites may have well been an early encounter with these 'Celts' or at least someone closely related. After all, who else was in the area? huh

It does appear that the early Celts did indeed make human sacrifices to the Gods. And that certainly fits in with the biblical claim that this is what the Canaanites were doing. Human sacrifice is known to exist in many cultures.

We know that the Mayans sacrificed humans as well, they even orchestrated war "games" where they actually killed each other off just for the purpose of sacrificing souls to the Gods. But in the case of the Mayans, their strategy was not to appease the Gods. They actually believed that there were only so many souls available. Therefore they believed that they had to kill of some of their people to make souls available to go into the bodies of new babies being born.

People are all nuts. That's the only thing I know for sure. laugh

Just the same these so-called 'Celts' living in Europe are interesting. I'd like to learn more about the peaceful farmer crowd, the Peace Lords (or priestesses) and the Northern Druids. I'm not so sure if I'm interested in the idiot warriors. laugh

I'd like to find a peaceful place in history to journey back to, if that's even possible. It sure sounds like that might have been the case with the Northerly Celtic Group. Clearly there's much to learn and even the historians seem to be guessing and trying to piece things together as best they can. One problem with the peaceful farming cultures is that they typically don't leaven much evidence behind to tell their stories. Battlefields filled with broken iron swords are easy to discover and analyze. Large tombs of elite priests and priestesses are also quite telling. But it's hard to piece together the remains of a peaceful farming community to get a good story because there just won't be much evidence to find. And there won't be any conflicts of war being recorded by other cultures either. Uncovering peaceful heritage is a difficult thing to do.

There is evidence though of settlements that created structures that appear to be designed for sacred rituals rather than as fortresses. That is one thing that they did mention briefly in this video. I guess I'm hoping that I came from a peaceful tribe. :smile:

I'm just not one to make war. It just isn't in me. flowerforyou