No offense...I really couldnt compare the value of a human life to a car..and I have let my papa who is a BACKYARD mechanic service my car many many times.

but i really wasn t tryting to compare the two jobs...just discuss employment terms and agreements..

and reasons why I would not like to be a union. and why I would not agree with nurses being in a union.

and a union run hospital..is not gonna guarantee that you GET the best nurse for the job...just whoever has the most senority. that being said I cant imagine even how surgeons could be unionized.

unions arent horrible. My x works for teamsters, my papa retired truckdriver from teamsters, my uncle retired from Ford....

Im saying with the economy, these companies need to restructure there employment terms....especially given the near (inevitable) collapse of the auto industry.

You are right about these companies need to be restructure, but they can do that through chapter 11, I am not in support of giving them money to bail them out from bad decisions.

Compare MY DAUGHTERS LIFES to a car. Where the he!! did you read that. I was stating that I would be putting my daughters live on the line putting her in a car that was manufactered by cheap labor. Maybe your ok with your daughter riding around in a car made by the lowest bidder. Personally I would think twice

No where did I say anything about unionizing and
hospital or nursing care.

You get what you pay for!!! Personaly I would pay alittle more for a better product.

I agree. We should have never bailed out the banks either. Its not helping the economy and will only make the "Depression' we are heading in even worse. We are not that far from it.

I have spoken out against the bailouts and continue to do so. I also speak out against "Stimulus" packages as the do not stimulate and create no long term solutions!!!!

There you go I will say what I think is wrong or right no matter who is in office.

Here in Florida we have a 10% unemployment rate. If those numbers were factored the same way as in the Great Depression we would probably around 16-18%.......So in my opinion we are not far off!!!JMO

so this jsut makes me wonder how much money I should spend on my daughters first vehicle.

and how do you feel about the price of brand new vehicles being so outrageous...that many people cant afford to drive around in a 'quality' car.

personally, i agree with you...and I would rather pay more and know the job is going to be done right. BUT affordability has become a factor. with automobiles and insurance....and healthcare.

and I guess we werent talking about a nurse's union..that was earlier in this thread.

unions remain a stumbling block in some of these hurdles..and well insurance companies remain a burden to ALL people having excellent healthcare.

HEALTHCARE is the biggest expenditure!

I think the quality of cars has increased in the last 10 years. Maybe jobs that pay more than $10-$14 an hour would help people afford better cars but that is where the majority of job growth has been in the last 10 years. A family of 4 with both parents working would be? Look at what you make and Im sure its not always easy.

Nationalized health care is not the answer...and all those union jobs would pay squat if they did nationalize it...that is for sure..

You are brainwashed by the propaganda thrown at you by those who intend to create one world economy.

BTW, here is a very formidable way of fighting Unions. It's very simple, and it kills them.

BUY FOREIGN

That's what I do. Not out of "love" to foreign or of "hate" to domestic manufacturers. I just don't like when folks gang up on me, demanding wages before they even learn how to spell.

If you are looking at a product, and you know it is made by a union, take your choice elsewhere.

Of course you wouldnt be able to call the police or fireman or send your kids to public schools or watch a pro game on tv. Probalby wouldnt be able to use your tap water or sewers either. wiat now that I think about it everything written for TV is union. wow good luck with all that

Of all that you have mentioned, I only use the sewers.

What you underestimate here is that you don't need to completely destroy a commie to conquer him. You only need to reduce his revenue. He will destroy himself and other with him.

In practice, this means that even though you can't refuse to use the sewers (not that you can't live without a union, but that they have unionized your only choice), you can cut their commie revenues everywhere else. Being commies, they will try to load the sewer union to help out the others who are failing, and will go down together. Communists refuse to localize the responsibility, and thus they are showing us the secret to their destruction.

What is important here is that they will go down. That is all I need. I'd be fine watching on the history channel, them going down in all the glory.

danceing bannanas for that

I agree its as if people wish to work for little pay and no benefits and are jelouse of us who have good pay and benefits

What an UnAmerican thing to do........

Do you think America is the only place Unions exist?

A lot of replies to cover so here it goes...



In base pay, yes. figure in the benefits without the legacy expense and you're $9 different. with the legacy, it becomes $22. That will not go away and the import companies will not catch up anytime soon.

$9 doesn't sound like a lot but that's the average difference in hourly wage. On a typical 40 hour week, that's an additional $360 a week or $18k a year. multiply that by the total employees and that's over a billion dollars in additional costs for GM alone. And that's without legacy costs.

As with any job especially yours you get what you pay for. That's why nothing lasts. The auto repair business is one of the worst. To many backyard mechanics that are under trained trying to do the job!!!!! They not only charge you $70 to $100 hr labor but "Mark up" the cost of materials by %25....Parts that half the time are after market created by cheap labor that are inferior or defective from the start...



I don't defend all my fellow technicians; but are you suggesting I get paid more? I know I'm damn good at what I do and don't let any car go until I know it's right and have had zero comebacks this past year that I was at fault for (occasional bad part).

You as a consumer partly have the responsibility of doing your due diligence before making a purchase (in this case, auto repair). Here in california, the BAR maintains records of complaints on all repair shops and in cases of guys like me with a smog license, technicians as well. AAA offers recommendations and you don't even have to be a member to use the search. They have very strict requirements for shops in order to stay on that list. Ask the parts houses. Ask others you see. You can't just walk blindly into a shop and expect to get great service every time in an industry you know is not always trustworthy.

And the idea of cheap labor is not what you pay the employee. It includes the entire costs of maintaining that employee. This includes wage, benefits, and training among other things. Besides, I (along with countless others) have had way better luck with Toyota over any of the domestic brands. that basically shoots your "get what you pay for" theory full of holes. I've worked for a domestic dealership (Dodge, Chrysler, Jeep). Having 1 in 10 cars need repair work before they hit the lot is unacceptable.




no, health care is not. but thanks for playing. it's actually the lowest expense per hour for a UAW employee at $12 an hour. That's less than half the wage paid. even if the full legacy costs were health care, the figure would still not match wages.

and you're right, it's not $78, it was $71 (with legacy costs, of course). I've read $78 before but $71 is the only one I can find actual facts to support.



um....no. I get it on top of my negotiated salary. benefits were never mentioned in the discussion other than they were available. Every business is different.



First, I don't care what anyone thinks of me. I refuse to support domestic car companies because I've owned 4 cars from them and only 1 was good (2003 ford focus... I got lucky because lots of others had issues). My Tacoma has never so much as hiccuped. My first car was a 14 year old camry and never put up a fuss. When I bought my Tacoma, I looked at the Ranger and get the family discount as my grandpa worked for Ford for 45 years (yes, as UAW). Even with the huge discount the tacoma was still only $1500 more and got better mileage and was way better on room, payload, and power.

Call me un-american. This is honestly not my caring face. As a consumer, I purchase the product that best fits my needs. Unions are against a free-market (which I fully believe in) and therefore I do not support them unless I need to. I don't care if other nations have them too - I'm not in that country, am I? If the big 3 want me to purchase from them. they either need to charge less or build a more comparable product. Then I'll go look at them.

I ditto AndrewAV on this. What worries me first and foremost is that we are the free country. Others can have their unions destroying their own economy till they get tired of it. I couldn't care less.

Others should care for their own countries, I care only of USA.

Others have socialism, should we?
Others have national healthcare, suckers. Should we?
Others can't say a word without gestapo checking on them, you want that here?

Leave other's business to others. This is the principle of free market, this is the principle on which America was built, and become what it was earlier in last century.

And socialism, government control, unions, welfare is what had killed it.

Unions helped make the middle class.

And beta and VHS promoted home entertainment. 8-tracks gave us mobile records. things come, serve a purpose, then outlive their usefulness and go away.

The unions gave what they could. they now simply support the greed of the members and fight against the "greed" of the business. They no longer have a real purpose other than the members' greed.

If you disagree, name one major, lasting, and policy-changing accomplishment of any union in the past 20 years.

um....no. I get it on top of my negotiated salary. benefits were never mentioned in the discussion other than they were available. Every business is different.


Then I should have said, "Most of the people that aren't in Unions also have their health benefits included in their salary."

suppose I have to explain the seperation of Church and State. WIsh I had more time.

no such clause anywhere than was letter not on anything else.if anything it was to keep gov out of the church NOT the church out of gov.the libs managed to do this and look at the morals and standards of corp america and the gov(they don't have any)