very good hummingbird


freedom is the right to do as you wish as long as it does not infringe on another

if you do not like smoke do not go where it is you have the right to avoid the smoke not to tell someone how they should live their life or run their business

and this is supposed to be a free country (yaeh right)

I preferred Gilligans Island!!!!! Ginger and Maryann were far more sexy than Archie and I was 8....

this was my response...to you Archie was a racist comment from page 2...

we kind of agree here...but...[ you knew that was coming ]...I like to think of Archie as a bigot...NOT a racist...I always give this analogy..." theres an episode where Archie has always wanted to be a CannonBowler...but...there was never a spot open on the team...until Hank Phillips dies...so...theres pressure from the league to fill that spot with a black guy...Charlie Green...so he and Archie have a one game bowl off...to see who makes the team...Archie goes first...bowls a 167...not his best...but...pretty good...now Charlie steps up and BAM !...BAM !...BAM!...three strikes in a row...Archie can't watch anymore...so he goes home to wait for the call...while waiting the meathead and him get into this whole debate...about keeping this black guy off the team because he's black...so Archie says...we're not keeping him off the team for what he is...we're keeping him off the team...for what he isn't...I mean...if he isn't white...Protestant and good bowler...then he ain't makin' the team !! "...that my friend is a bigot....lol...

Bigot and racist are both bad.

I see both sides. I am a smoker.

My child has asthma and my father has severe COPD. I see how second hand smoke affects them. It can kill them.

The 50's? Don't even get me started!!

Best post of this thread in my opinion. Since I partake in the leaf and don't want to pay the taxes on it, I grow my own from seeds from this site. http://www.virtualseeds.com/tobacco.html

Can we get beyond THE INDIDIVIDUALISTIC dominated way of thinking here?

Don't want to pay the tax, don't smoke - is total BS. WE ALL pay the tax, it is how the Federal government funds its entitlment programs. WE ALL pay for those on medicaid and veterans welfare programs. Within these programs are tens of thousands of people who depend on those Federal entitlements for the treatments of their smoking related diseases.

Certainly the uncontrolled taxation of any "legal" substance warrents action. My only question is, what is the proper action? Allow poeple to knowingly and systematically destroy their health, and then expect others to pay the high cost of their healthcare? Or do we make a commitment to ourselves and to others to stop using the product?

Taxes, in this country, are out of control, becasue the government has been asked to take so much control - How can we possibly forget that WE PAY for what the government controls. WE PAY - ALL OF US PAY, not just those who purchase a single product.

Winx said:


How can that make anyone happy? What happens when tobacco becomes a market crop and the price makes it too prohibitive to continue its use by so many? What happens to the program if people quit using tobacco? I doubt that your state will simply stop supporting the poor children, that just means YOUR taxes will be need to go up, somewhere else. What will be taxed next?

Wholeheartedly agree.

Huh? What? How do I pay tax on a carton of cigarettes if I don't buy them again? If you're a smoker, whatever brand it is that you're smoking it sure the heck isn't legal. Of course it's based on INDIVIDUALISTIC thinking and purchases. Granted, we all pay taxes to one degree or another (even those on social entitlement programs). Whether it be property tax, income tax, taxes on products (I.E. tobacco, beer, or vehicles), it's collected and redistributed by the government. If I do not own a car, I do not pay sales tax on one nor for the taxes on gasoline that goes into one, anything associated with with a car. If I do not use tobacco, I do not pay the taxes on them. When I PURCHASED the seeds for growing my own tobacco, I paid a tax ONCE ... for the seeds. As one who lives in the country with my own drinking well and septic system. I don't pay a water or "flush" tax either like they do in certain cities. I may pay taxes but they are based upon individual single product/lifestyle choices.

Carol O'Conner was a great actor. He star in a couple of my favoriate movies one being In Harms Way. He also had roles on some of my favoriate shows. Wild Wild West, Gunsmoke,The Man from Uncle....He was crushed when his son Hugh Over dosed and was known for speeking out against drug abuse..He also feared he would only be remembered for his role of 'Archie".....

Beeorganic

We pay taxes on many levels;federal, state, townships and municipalities. Do you know how those taxes are used?

At the federal level one of things your taxes pay for is the treatment of those on medicaid and veterans for tobacco related illnesses. You pay for the oxegyn that's delivered to their homes, you pay for the chemotheorapy that will NOT save their lives, and for the drastically invasive surgeries, that may allow just a little more time. And you pay for many of those same people to continue smoking even through the treatments.

You also pay for research that's conducted for better treatment options, so that people can continue to use tobacco products.

These funds DO NOT come from a tax that is charged on a tobacco product. The vast majority fo the funds are paid through your federal income taxes.

I don't agree this is right, none of it is right. But what is the best avenue to take against this unjust tax?

Most states that have adopted additional taxes of products, may use some of those funds to 'supplement' what they receive from the federal level, but not all such tax is even used, by the state, for tobacco related issues, in their own state or anywhere else.

So I suppose we could begin some grass roots movements to challenge state authority in such taxation, but chances are, one way or another, the people of your state agreed to allow such taxation. Good luck getting enough people together to change that, especially is tobacco is the platform.

We have even less chance of making a change at the federal level.

So my suggestion still stands, the best way to circumvent the tobacco tax is to stop using tobacco products. Home grown is not the answer, because the federal entitlements will still lay claim to a portion of your federal income tax dollars for tobacco related entitlement funding.

We don't stand a chance in h@ll of getting a reprieve on the federal tax, at any rate, simply because those funds, if no longer needed for the designated entitlement, will simply be diverted to somehthing else - but MAYBE that something else is more worthy of receiving funding!

There are many products on the market that can cause health problems but we still indulge in them. Many you could link to health problems that cost us money. Are you going to tell people they can not eat this or drink that. Ban all the products? Look at the medical costs associated with alcohol?We tried prohibition.Costs associated with high cholesterol.Ban all foods with high saturated fat?How about Over the counter meds? Do you realize the liver damage Tylenol does? Mercury in fish. Shut down the fishing industry? Where do you want to stop????

Smoking is bad and I do not smoke. I know a 90 year old man who smokes a pack a day. Healthy as an ox. I also know a 15 year old girl who never smoke anything dying from lung cancer. So should we cut back on funding on treatment and research?

I am so happy about smoke free places .I have this thing about being able to breathe where ever I go without secondhand smoke f@#$king up my day..Smoking is an addiction,not a right and don't get me started about the butts flying out car windows or just thrown on the ground.Sorry but tax the **** out of it.Maybe we can stop young kids from chew,cigarettes,cigars etc.

I agree with you. You have the right to not to go into a establishment that allows smoking. Alcohol,food and even sex can be addictive. As for the littering look at the beer cans, fast food wrappers lying around.(I was going to say rubbers but that would be a bit to much )

I do not smoke. That's my choice. There are so many things we are exposed to everyday that are harmful.

I agree, we pay taxes on many levels and know where and what the taxes I pay goes towards for the mostpart (with the exception of military black budgets). No dispute there. Taxes are collected from a myriad of sources ALL going towards ALL government operations/programs/ policies (the only way the government can operate). Agreed.

I believe I understand now what you meant and we were talking cross-purposes and partially agree with you (all but the quit using part). I'll admit a "D'oh" moment here, this one time, if I have to, I guess . Taxes or no taxes though we still "pay" for any illness, disease, or addiction regardless (in loss of production) then. I was taking your use of the word "pay taxes on tobacco" literally. How about this, until the government bans/regulates the tobacco plant or I choose to stop partaking, I will never literally pay a continuous specific tax on tobacco like most. You're absolutely correct, it doesn't matter what's taxed, the only guarantee is that it will be spent on something (no matter how it's deemed). A city near me just spent 30K on a study for a new logo, allowed the citizens to vote for their favorite, and the city counsil opted the least voted on choice.


templter- GREAT POST 3061!

The health Nazi in me would be to suggest those who are "poor" (the ones taxpayers have to subsidize and support for healthcare and such) be barred from items/activities deemed "unhealthy" (by the government) then. I believe the US is in the top 10 list with the most obese "poor" people in the world.

templter- GREAT POST 3061!

The health Nazi in me would be to suggest those who are "poor" (the ones taxpayers have to subsidize and support for healthcare and such) be barred from items/activities deemed "unhealthy" (by the government) then. I believe the US is in the top 10 list with the most obese "poor" people in the world.



poor people eat a lot of mac n cheese,potatoes and processed foods because healthy foods are expensive.any wonder we are fat ?

insert whistling shaking head and just walking threw emoticon here

I saw you.

i justed anted to say...i left my cigs at my friends hoouse today and shes at work...and i dont wanna go buy more...aggghhh..im jonesing for a cig....twitch twitch...