Did Jesus Christ come to
institute or to fulfill the Law (Genesis-Deuteronomy) and the Prophets (Joshua - Malachi)?


Let us look at Matt 5:17-18 a little bit closer:

"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets;

I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.

I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished."

First of all, Jesus is talking about "the Law" and "the Prophets".

This was the way people of His day refers to the Bible, which we now refer to as the "Old Testament"!

The "law" contains all of God's commandments. Jesus clearly says that He did not come to abolish the Old Testament nor its laws, but to fulfill them.

NOW!!!

What does "fulfill" mean???

Ok now.....Let us look to the Bible for clarification.

Matt 1:22-23

"All this took place to fulfill what the Lord had said through the prophet:

"The virgin will be with child and will give birth to a son, and they will call him Immanuel"-which means, "God with us.""

Matt 2:14-15

"So he got up, took the child and his mother during the night and left for Egypt, 1where he stayed until the death of Herod. And so was fulfilled what the Lord had said through the prophet: "Out of Egypt I called my son.""

Matt 8:17

"This was to fulfill what was spoken through the prophet Isaiah: "He took up our infirmities and carried our diseases.""

John 19:28-29

"Later, knowing that all was now completed, and so that the Scripture would be fulfilled, Jesus said, "I am thirsty.""

"Fulfilled" clearly means completed. The shadow has met its reality. It has been accomplished.

In this context we can better understand Matt 5:18-19:

"Until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished."

God's law was not abolished. It was fulfilled in Jesus Christ. The shadow found its reality!

In this context, we can also understand Matt 5:19

"Anyone who breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven,
but
whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven."

This text is followed by verse 20:

"For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven."

In other words, no one can enter the kingdom of heaven, for: Rom 3:23 "

. . . all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God" .....

All have transgressed God's laws! We are all sinners! None of us is righteous! Is there any hope for us?

YES!!!

In the FULFILLMENT of Jesus on the cross, Rom 3:24-25....

"and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus."

Come to Jesus and accept Him into your life right now.

Come experience a fulfilling life with God as your partner.

Why don't you invite Him right now by answering the Altar's call at

http://www.answers2prayer.org/saviours_call.html

and invite Him into your life.

He will help you through your mess and will help you be Victorious!


Matthew 5:17-18.....

pretty much spells it out.

"Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets:

I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill.

For verily I say unto you,
Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one title shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled."


The Bible is very clear,
as the above answers show,

that Jesus came to fulfill the law and the prophets and not to take away the law.

I just finished working with a group of guys whose church teaches that Jesus took away the law.

I think some call it dispensationalism.

These co-workers claimed that since Jesus came we are no longer under the law.

While it is true that the sacrifice of Jesus was the ultimate fulfillment of the sacrificial law,

this does not mean that it is now ok to drink animals blood, for example. (This was our actual argument! Satan is still teaching this because he knows it is against God.)

We are to still follow the 10 commandments.

Now that the law is written on the HEARTS of those BORN AGAIN and with the Holy Spirit,

the Spirit of LOVE will naturally follow the 10 commandments,

but that darn flesh is still wrapped around us,

so we still need those rules! Rules lead us to Christ and they helps us discern truth.

Jesus' fulfillment of the Law does not give us license to sin or reason to ignore the Old Testament.

He fulfilled the law by being the ultimate sacrifice and now,

the ultimate high priest so that our bodies can be temples and we can be priests!

Also, as far as the prophecies are concerned, not all of the prophesies were fulfilled in the first coming.

This is why Jews today do not believe that the Messiah has come yet.

They expect Him to fulfill all of the prophecies in one coming.

SO, this is another reason to keep the Old Testament. There are still predictions of many prophets to take place.

Bottom line. Fulfillment does not mean elimination of!


© Answers2Prayer

heart:

The 10 Commands say nothing about same-gender love being against the law of God.

Yet, Christian organizations use the tithe money and the sheep-like political support of Christianty to bash same-gender love in the name of God.

Where do they dig this bigotry up from?

Clearly they go rooting around in the Old Testament until they can find something to use as fodder for bigotry against their brothers and sisters.

Well, if they are going to stoop to these tactic then what's preventing them from killing witches in the name of God. The Old Testament clearly states: Exdodus 22:18 "Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live".

That sure sounds like a 'commandment' to me, it's stated in the very same words as all the other commandments.

Where does violence stop in the name of God if we accept that this ancient Middle Eastern culture indeed does speak for our creator?

Clearly Christian organization our up in arms to condemn same-gender love and hurt anyone via political actions who might love someone who happens to be the same gender they are.

What kind of hatred in the name of God is that?

And look at yourself MorningSong. You are a woman. The Old Testament clearly states that it is God's will that women are not to speak out publicly on matters of religion. In fact, there is far more in the Old Testament about not speaking publicly on matters of religion than there is about same-gender sexual intimacy.

So what's with all this picking and choosing?

You just randomly decide which ideas you'd like to support and which you'd like to ignore.

That seems pretty convenient for you.

In the Old Testament God commanded that it is our duty to seek out heathens and murder them, their wives and their children.

What's up with just looking at the 10 commandments?

Like I say, there is nothing in the 10 commandments that says anything against same-gender love. Yet Christian organization are quite vehement about pushing this into law because they claim it is the law of God.

Clearly once you accept that the Old Testament as the word of God you've opened up a whole can of worms.

But as humans why should we accept this book as the word of God.

I'm a human being.

This book that was written by a culture in the Middle East claims that I fell from grace from my creator.

I don't believe them. I think they are lying.

They claim that God told them to murder "heathens". But what's their definition of a "heathen", anyone who disagrees with their BOOK!

What?

Excuse me MorningSong, but this culture looks to me like they are just arrogantly writing a book claiming that God supports them over all other nations. In fact, they even claim that they are God's choosen people, and God's choosen nation.

Why should I believe those people were favored by God?

I don't believe.

I believe that those people arrogantly claimed that God is on their side in everything and condone their murdering of anyone they disagreed with.

That culture may very well have fallen from grace from God.

But I certainly haven't.

They claim that the creator of all humanity lusts for blood sacrifices before he is willing to forgive.

I don't believe that. I think they stole that idea from Greek Mythology.

They claim that the creator of all humanity is a male-chuavinist.

I don't believe that.

They claim that God is a male.

I don't believe that.

They claim that God told them to murder witches.

I don't believe that.

In fact, I don't believe anything that those people said about our creator to be true.

As a human being I reject their authortity to speak for the creator of this universe.

Where's there's proof?

They have none.

I'm supposed to believe that the creator of this universe at one point drowned out all of humanity because of their sins, and then at another point gave his only begotten son as a sacrifical lamb to pay for the sins of man?

That's an inconsistent picture of a creator who doesn't have a clear plan.

Obviously if a God has a plan from the very beginning he's not going to be trying different things.

I think this culture shot themselves in the foot on several occassions when they were making up these lies.

There is absolutely no reason why I should believe that the creator of this unvierse would have ever told people to judge each other and stone sinners to dead.

And all powerful intervening God who can supposedly cure cancer when you merely ask him to do so in a prayer could certainly give sinners a heart attack at will.

There would be no reason for any all-powerful God to be asking humans to judge each other and carry out an execution for God.

The only people who would have ever written such a thing in a book would have been dastardly men who knew that they weren't going to be there to keep people in line so they asked their readers to do their dirty work for them.

Clearly this book is the word of any God.

To support it is to support the bigotry, arrogance, and ignorance, of that ancient male-chaunvinistc Middle Eastern society.

They did not speak for the creator of humanity MorningSong.

That book has nothing to do with the creator of humanity. That book was written by male-chauvinist bigots who were doing very nasty and vile things to their neighbors and attempting to justify themselves by claiming that God told them to be so vile.

There's no way that I will ever be convinvinced that our create is as bigoted and vile as those people have claimed.

Sorry, you'll get no support for bigotry in the name of God from me.

I've seen the historical horrors that result from that blind mentality.

It's clearly an ungodly doctrine.

Some of the laws he fulfilled.

Stone disobedeant children to death.

If a woman is raped she is to marry her rapest.

If you work on sat. you are to be stoned to death.

you may own and beat slaves.


and many many more......

Jesus strongly approves of the law and the prophets. He hasn't the slightest objection to the cruelties of the Old Testament.

5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.


"Think not that I am come to destroy the law."

If you fullfill your work for the day. Does that mean the next shift has nothing to do? Shalom...Miles

Miles in your religion (I don’t know the name)dont you believe that the OT was the word of god? All that stoning and everything else included?

I believe thier is no NT and OT.. The very label that has been put on the scriptures has an agenda. You can not find this in the bible.

I have explained this before when the law was given the children of Israel had just come out of 400 years of captivity on egypt.

They new nothing of the ways of Abraham thier father.

Yahweh promices Abraham his descendents would would be as the stars of heaven or the sands of the sea. Un-numerable.

When at mount Sinia as soon as Moses went up the mountain they started to build a golden calf to have something to worship. No doubt this was what they worshipped in Eygpt.

Moses pleaded with Yahweh and Yahweh did not destroy them but let Moses take care of it. This is when he broken the commandments in pieces as they had not obeyed any of them.


These people were brought out of slavery by a mighty hand. Red sea parted all the plagues on Egypt then they left Mount Sinia with the law and Moses read the law to the Isrealites and they all agreed to it if Yahweh would protect them.

It was the sprinkling of blood on them and the law as a covenant that each would keep as a promice.

I read nowhere in the scriptures at that time that the Israelites had to agree to the covenant and could not go thier own way. Many probally did.

Those who took it took an oath of obedience that this was thier training and they would listen and do as they were told.

Leaving egypt was a hard thing for them to do.

Then they come across the desert and they are fead abundance of quail. Water out of a rock. But still many rebelled and decided to do things thier way.

many died doing things thier way as when one person rebells and gets by with it, it spreads through the camp that they can also.

You end up in anrchy. The man who was stoned for picking up sticks on the sabbath was told not to do so. He was not struct down. He basically said i will do as i want. Yahweh made an example of what an oath means when he had him killed. The same with rhe one who blasphemed his name.

They wandered for 40 years learning about Yahweh yet they 40 years Yahweh let them break the law.

That law was the law of Circumcision. On the 8th day all males were to be circumsized. He also sent 12 spies into the promice land and only Caleb and Joshua came back with a good report the other 10 were afraid. They did not believe Yahweh when he said he would protect them.

Now all died but those 20 years old and younger and caleb and Yahshua.

Abraham when told to circumcise his household this meant his servants also. So he circumsized Himself Issac and 320 servants that very day. Joshua when he cross the Jordan cricumsized all the males before they went any futher and waited to be healed before going on to Jericho.


Yahweh gives us chances. He gave the Israelites 40 years and the children 20 years and younger he did not hold at fault.

Now we here about the stoning of children. Yet we see no examples of this ever being done. That I know of.

This was a law of the rock for the parents. We our to be the Rock for our children. Just as Yahshua is the Rock for us.

We are responcible for our children just as Yahweh is for his.

Have 1 rebellios child in your household and you do not do anything about it then your whole house is in chaos Just as we see so many today.

Stoning was allowed at the Parents descretion. Very few people would go that far. Maybe if a child intentionally killed one of his siblings and laughed about it you may consider it..even today.


You will find the Law is not spoke of near as much after the Torah. The Torah is the Law. The book we look back to in trying to decide rightous judgement.

No different we hope at least than our court system looks at the law and trys to figyre out the deep meaning of it.. It may not always be clear.


But after the Torah are nothing but examples of what people did and what happened to them for our benefit.

Now Yahweh id pick certain men to pass on prophecies to the people as warnings of what was to come and to prepare.

Again he is keeping his bargain of the Law in doing so as he promiced to protect us as a father.

many times he speaks of covering us as a hen covers her young.

To many people want to pick and choose what the scriptures say. The bible is an instruction manual to learn from starting at the beginning and going to the end,

They want to say it is old and is against us. This is what the children who built the golden calf said.

But yet they do not consider that when all these letters were being written they quote from the OT.. the path that leads us. Jumping to the new and picking and choosing from the old only leads to chaos. Every man for himself..Blessings of Shalom...Miles

Well at least your religion is honest and considers there to be no break from OT to NT. It’s all the scripture to you and the word of god. I am sensing that the born again want to take no responsibility for the atrocities and cruelties in the OT because they claim there was no Jesus on the scene yet and therefore no "true Christians" yet to be found.

That’s hogwash.

Yahweh has never changed. Those atrocities were HIS LAW.

Alot of your presuppositions about Christianity are wrong.

This was a covenant people who God revealed himself to and no one else.

What difference would that make?

For instance in Joshua 6:21

When Joshua comes to Jericho, Joshua is simply carrying out the commands of God given through Moses. In fact, the same account which tells of the massacre of the inhabitants of Jericho also tells of God's command to carry out that massacre (Joshua 7:12).

Why does God insist on total destruction or "herem"? Is it because God doesn't want His "favorites" to share the land with anyone? No. A few hundred years before, Abraham was His "favorite." Yet Abraham never possessed any of the land, nor did He tell Abraham to destroy any of the inhabitants of the land. Why? God tells Abraham the reason: "In the fourth generation your descendants will come back here, for the sin of the Amorites has not yet reached its full measure" (Genesis 15:16). The inhabitants of the land (called the Amorites or the Canaanites) had not yet reached a level of depravity that required their removal.

God is not partial. When Israel reaches the same level of immorality, He will treat them in exactly the same way. Leviticus 18:24-28 says: "God said to the Israelites, 'Do not defile yourselves in any of these ways, because this is how the nations that I am going to drive out before you became defiled. Even the land was defiled; so I punished it for its sin, and the land vomited out its inhabitants. But you must keep my decrees and my laws. The native-born and the aliens living among you must not do any of these detestable things, for all these things were done by the people who lived in the land before you, and the land became defiled. And if you defile the land, it will vomit you out as it vomited out the nations that were before you.'"

So Joshua's war of total destruction is a final judgment of God against these nations. God has always reserved this right of judgment. Those who object to it here would object, no doubt, to the Flood (Genesis 6-7) and to the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah (Genesis 19). Modern man does not believe that anything that he does is worthy of death. But the Bible has a different view. It teaches us that God as the Moral Judge of the universe and that sin is not just a preference, but active rebellion against God.

Yet isn't this situation in Joshua different from the Flood and the destruction of Sodom in that human beings -- rather than the elements of nature -- are the agents of destruction? No doubt this is true. But the idea that God uses people to carry out His judgment is found throughout the Bible. King David, as God's sub-regent, promises to eliminate the wicked in his nation (Psalm 101:8). Rulers of state are required to carry out God's moral laws and punish those who do evil (Romans 13:4).

When Israel is sent into the land of Palestine to destroy the Canaanite nations, the nation is like a child sent to get his own paddle. Israel is being graphically taught its need to obey Yahweh, who indeed is the God of the whole earth. And God takes His duties seriously! Israel is warned that failure to remove this cancer of wickedness would eventually bring her own infection with sin and hence, their own judgment (Deuteronomy 7:1-6, 20:18).

The book of Joshua actually keys its notion of success to this practice of herem. Jericho (6:17,21), Ai (8:1-2, 26-27), the kings and cities of the southern region (10:25-40), and Hazor and its allies (11:8-14) all receive this radical judgment of extermination.

At Jericho, Israel is warned that if she does not practice herem, she herself will be herem -- under God's judgment (6:18)! This warning went unheeded, however. Achan and his family decide against practicing the ban, when it comes to some costly items found in Jericho. Because of Achan's sin, Israel fights without Yahweh's help in their next battle. Thirty-six men perish... and Joshua is absolutely devastated (see Joshua 7:6-9). Why is Joshua so emotionally strained? Is thirty-six a high number of men to lose in battle? Apparently it is in Yahweh's wars. We search in vain in the rest of the book of Joshua for mention of other casualties.



Critics of the Old Testament's claim that God ordered the killing of whole tribes in Canaan typically neglect the reason expressly stated in the Old Testament: those tribes were depraved beyond redemption (Gen. 15:16; Lev. 18:21-30; 20:2-5; Deut. 12:29-31; etc.). According to the Old Testament, the Canaanites and other tribes in the land widely practiced child sacrifice, incest, bestiality, and other behaviors that almost everyone in history, including today, rightly regard as unspeakably, grossly immoral. If this explanation is even acknowledged, critics often claim that it is a later theological justification for Israel's displacing those peoples from the land. Even many mainstream biblical scholars make this claim.

So you attempting to assert here that it is okay to stone Hebrew women because god only intended it to apply to them?

Yeah right....



For touching Mount Sinai

Whosoever toucheth the mount shall be surely put to death. Exodus 19:13

For taking "accursed things"

Achan ... took of the accursed thing. ... And all Israel stoned him with stones, and burned them with fire, after they had stoned them with stones. ... So the LORD turned from the fierceness of his anger. Joshua 7:1-26

For cursing or blaspheming

And he that blasphemeth the name of the LORD, he shall surely be put to death, and all the congregation shall certainly stone him. Leviticus 24:16

For adultery (including urban rape victims who fail to scream loud enough)

If a damsel that is a virgin be betrothed unto an husband, and a man find her in the city, and lie with her; Then ye shall bring them both out unto the gate of that city, and ye shall stone them with stones that they die; the damsel, because she cried not, being in the city. Deuteronomy 22:23-24

For animals (like an ox that gores a human)

If an ox gore a man or a woman, that they die: then the ox shall be surely stoned. Exodus 21:28

For a woman who is not a virgin on her wedding night

If any man take a wife, and go in unto her, and hate her ... and say, I took this woman, and when I came to her, I found her not a maid: Then shall the father of the damsel, and her mother, take and bring forth the tokens of the damsel's virginity unto the elders of the city in the gate: And the damsel's father shall say ... these are the tokens of my daughter's virginity. And they shall spread the cloth before the elders of the city. ... But if this thing be true, and the tokens of virginity be not found for the damsel: Then they shall bring out the damsel to the door of her father's house, and the men of her city shall stone her with stones that she die. Deuteronomy 22:13-21

For worshipping other gods

If there be found among you ... that ... hath gone and served other gods, and worshipped them ... Then shalt thou ... tone them with stones, till they die. Deuteronomy 17:2-5

If thy brother, the son of thy mother, or thy son, or thy daughter, or the wife of thy bosom, or thy friend, which is as thine own soul, entice thee secretly, saying, Let us go and serve other gods, which thou hast not known, thou, nor thy fathers ... thou shalt stone him with stones, that he die. Deuteronomy 13:5-10

For disobeying parents

If a man have a stubborn and rebellious son, which will not obey the voice of his father, or the voice of his mother ... Then shall his father and his mother lay hold on him, and bring him out unto the elders of his city ... And they shall say unto the elders of his city, This our son is stubborn and rebellious, he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton, and a drunkard. And all the men of his city shall stone him with stones, that he die. Deuteronomy 21:18-21

For witches and wizards

A man also or woman that hath a familiar spirit, or that is a wizard, shall surely be put to death: they shall stone them with stones: their blood shall be upon them. Leviticus 20:27

For giving your children to Molech

Whosoever ... giveth any of his seed unto Molech; he shall surely be put to death: the people of the land shall stone him with stones. Leviticus 20:2

For breaking the Sabbath

They found a man that gathered sticks upon the sabbath day. ... And the LORD said unto Moses, The man shall be surely put to death: all the congregation shall stone him with stones.... And all the congregation brought him without the camp, and stoned him with stones, and he died; as the LORD commanded Moses. Numbers 15:32-56

For cursing the king

Thou didst blaspheme God and the king. And then carry him out, and stone him, that he may die. 1 Kings 21:10