Gee a strict reading of that document could mean that only men are created equal and yada yada yada...

No mention is made of women, children, or embryos.

But you have to think of the language at the time. Up until recently, men meant the human race.

once there is an embryo there is a creation by its creator

What constitution? Oh that piece of paper that has been trampled on so much the words and meaning behind them dont mean squat anymore!

declaration of independence

I am pro choice. If a woman is raped, then I believe it is her choice to end the pregnancy. The guy who raped her doesn't give a damn and its not his choice anyway, it's hers!

I understand that "men" was often used to refer to the human race and still is used that way. Not being pc I use the men to refer to humans collectively too.

Still, the idea that women had rights that are equal to men's is a relatively new one. Oh gosh wait...women do not do they? But wait that's another thread.

So, an embryo is an person? Think for a minute about what defines personhood. Is it mere existence? Is this embryo an independent, functioning, reasoning human being?

No

I've said this for a long time. If men got pregnant there would likely be no question about abortion. It would be safe, legal and speedily available. Oh, and I bet birth control would be more affective and likely free too.

Okay, now I am sure I will piss off a few people but here it goes.

Men imposing their morals on woman's bodies is as much about power and judgment as it is about morals. That sort of thinking is tied to the biblical notion of woman being the corrupter of man, the bearer of sin etc.

I absolutely understand and support a man having a part in deciding the fate of his own creation but I completely reject the notion that a man, unknown and unrelated to me or the embryo I am carrying telling me what my options are.

As another poster is so fond of saying. It's a private matter.

I believe that abortion should only be used in cases of rape, incest or something fatally wrong with the mother. It should not be used just because the woman or man was stupid enough to not have protection.

Lets see the pill is 98% effective and beleive condons are around 97%. Lets do the math on all those "smart" enough to use protection. I guessing around 220 million adults and come on how many kids have sex! Ill admit I Did!!!!!

I did too of course but come on...isn't that just common sense to use protection? It's not like young people can say "I didn't know to use contraceptives." It's openly discussed in sex ed classes and surely to God responsible parents teach their children to use protection.

Like I said "protection" is not 100% effective. Yes people are careless but do you think they intend to get pregnant just so they can have an abortion? Personally I dont. Im not defending abortion! Yes Im pro-choice but That dosnt mean I would want or suggest an abortion...You stated there are "protections to use" and I say they are not 100% effective. You can try and prove that wrong if you want...

I don't know I guess I am just sensitive about this subject. I went to high school with a girl that had 3 abortions because she was a whore and just would not use anything. Those are the types of people I am referring too.

Hey, I agree with you. There are some people who just dont care. There is also people who take all the precautions and still end up pregnant. Everyone's situation is different. I dont agree with abortion but to me I don't know all the facts about peoples lives so I will not say they shouldn't...To me its a personal decision.....I dont want people telling me how to make my personal decisions effecting my life what ever they are..

<<<<< Pro-choice, personally anti abortion!!!!!

okay, goody, goody, goody, just saying, I plan on waiting for marge for sex, but I'm old fashioned and what not. anywhoo, this is getting a smidgen of my topic, but who cares. I think most of the problems would be resolved if we would just control are emotions.

Whats the title of the thread!!!!!! What do you want to dicuss?

I want to talk about why people can't at least admit that when they are pro-choice, they are for the choice of killing a baby. But you guys got off topic when you started the whole think about sex before marriage and protection and whatnot.

honestly, it sounds like you are getting off topic of your own thread.. you are insisting that people who are pro choice are pro abortion... that is not the case..Pro-choice is what it says, the woman has the right to decide to go through with her wishes. that doesn't neccessarily mean that everyone who is pro-choice supports 'baby-killing'

Personally, no matter how I spin it or reason with it I am pro-choice, however, anit-abortion. I don't agree with the idea, but as a person whose been in that situation,pregnant, i know how scary it is, and can empathize. I couldnt fathom going through with an abortion, but that's my choice. and I beleive that women have the right to choose and not be judged. after all, She would have enough on her shoulders.

^^^^^^^^^^