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| Topic: Here's a science/physics question | |
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Say you have a level parking lot that is fully covered with ice (you could pretty much ice skate on it). Parked in this parking lot are two cars: one the size of an Escort or Focus, and one an SUV or Minivan. Could a strong enough wind, such as a hurricane wind, make either or both of the cars move AT ALL on the ice? Another way to ask the question: Will either or both of the cars' tires slide on the ice, in any direction?
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Say you have a level parking lot that is fully covered with ice (you could pretty much ice skate on it). Parked in this parking lot are two cars: one the size of an Escort or Focus, and one an SUV or Minivan. Could a strong enough wind, such as a hurricane wind, make either or both of the cars move AT ALL on the ice? Another way to ask the question: Will either or both of the cars' tires slide on the ice, in any direction? I would think the SUV/Minivan would be more apt to move, because of more surface area against the wind. JMO |
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Edited by
Jill298
on
Thu 01/08/09 10:24 AM
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I would think strong enough hurricane winds could move either of the cars regardless if there's ice or not.
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I would think strong enough hurricane winds could move either of the cars regardless if there's ice or not. |
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it is possible to predict that if couple of things are known to us, the weights of the 2 cars, the wind speed and the friction between the ice and the 2 cars
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Is this a theoritical question? Because I'm not seeing how this could actually happen in the first place?
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Edited by
quiet_2008
on
Thu 01/08/09 10:36 AM
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Say you have a level parking lot that is fully covered with ice (you could pretty much ice skate on it). Parked in this parking lot are two cars: one the size of an Escort or Focus, and one an SUV or Minivan. Could a strong enough wind, such as a hurricane wind, make either or both of the cars move AT ALL on the ice? Another way to ask the question: Will either or both of the cars' tires slide on the ice, in any direction? prolly not the ice will have formed aroiund the tires not under them. The tires will still be resting on pavement assuming the ice formed under the tires, the weight of the vehicles would still melt the ice under the tires and they still would be resting on pavement EDIT: oh a hurricane force wind? that would blow em away even if there was no ice |
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Edited by
Bushidobillyclub
on
Thu 01/08/09 10:57 AM
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Everyone who has posted above has made valid points.
Depending on the situation and forces involved it is possible. F=MA (Force = Mass X Acceleration), or for this application A=F/M Acceleration = Force / Mass But we must account for how friction effects the needed force. Ff = μ FN Ff = force due to friction (Newtons) FN = normal force (Newtons) μ = Greek letter “mu”, coefficient of friction between two surfaces (no units) μs is static, μk is kinetic When the vehicles are at rest the friction is static, when the force applied has overcome the friction and started the vehicle moving it is kinetic friction. Each material has a different friction coefficient so we would need to measure the friction of the rubber on the ice. |
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i've parked on ice before after an ice storm and
pushed my car off the ice sideways from the curb to get it back onto the street... so...depending on the situation either car could be moved. 
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Edited by
Bushidobillyclub
on
Thu 01/08/09 11:00 AM
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i've parked on ice before after an ice storm and pushed my car off the ice sideways from the curb to get it back onto the street... so...depending on the situation either car could be moved.
Not hip to that the wind speed calculation, id have to look it up lol.
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Is this a theoritical question? Because I'm not seeing how this could actually happen in the first place? Yes, it is just a thought. I never tried this. It just came to me one day. |
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Edited by
Bushidobillyclub
on
Thu 01/08/09 12:16 PM
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Excellent baseline resource!
Edit: Well questionable resource after looking at it Vs my text book but who knows not like I am any expert on this stuff I have extremely limited experience lol no really. Ice to Ice friction coefficient is .1 so looks like either the tires are not better on ice, then ice on ice or this is a very generalized coefficient on this website. |
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Say you have a level parking lot that is fully covered with ice (you could pretty much ice skate on it). Parked in this parking lot are two cars: one the size of an Escort or Focus, and one an SUV or Minivan. Could a strong enough wind, such as a hurricane wind, make either or both of the cars move AT ALL on the ice? Another way to ask the question: Will either or both of the cars' tires slide on the ice, in any direction? How thick is the ice, and were the cars parked before or after it froze over? Without the ice, and without question, the wind could easily move both vehicles a noticable amount, and with the ice, both will move too, but the the likelyhood of being moved from their frozen position decreases. |
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Excellent baseline resource! Edit: Well questionable resource after looking at it Vs my text book but who knows not like I am any expert on this stuff I have extremely limited experience lol no really. Ice to Ice friction coefficient is .1 so looks like either the tires are not better on ice, then ice on ice or this is a very generalized coefficient on this website. I found the reference citation... Bauer, Horst, et al, Bosch Automotive Handbook 5th ed., Robert Bosch GmbH, 2000 
maybe ice on ice is stickier than rubber on ice... or vice versa, or maybe it depends on the compound or flatness or temperature or pressure...etc..etc. 
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Edited by
Bushidobillyclub
on
Mon 01/12/09 02:58 PM
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Excellent baseline resource! Edit: Well questionable resource after looking at it Vs my text book but who knows not like I am any expert on this stuff I have extremely limited experience lol no really. Ice to Ice friction coefficient is .1 so looks like either the tires are not better on ice, then ice on ice or this is a very generalized coefficient on this website. I found the reference citation... Bauer, Horst, et al, Bosch Automotive Handbook 5th ed., Robert Bosch GmbH, 2000
maybe ice on ice is stickier than rubber on ice... or vice versa, or maybe it depends on the compound or flatness or temperature or pressure...etc..etc.
If you placed 2K lbs of a car shaped chunk of ice on top of a bigger chunk of flat ice I bet it would be pretty close to the same force required to move that chunk of ice as your car. Ice kinda sucks for traction! |
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there really is only one way to know for sure, and that's to put the theory into practice and observe.
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Edited by
DeKLiNe0fMaN
on
Sat 01/24/09 10:46 PM
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Everyone who has posted above has made valid points. Depending on the situation and forces involved it is possible. F=MA (Force = Mass X Acceleration), or for this application A=F/M Acceleration = Force / Mass But we must account for how friction effects the needed force. Ff = μ FN Ff = force due to friction (Newtons) FN = normal force (Newtons) μ = Greek letter “mu”, coefficient of friction between two surfaces (no units) μs is static, μk is kinetic When the vehicles are at rest the friction is static, when the force applied has overcome the friction and started the vehicle moving it is kinetic friction. Each material has a different friction coefficient so we would need to measure the friction of the rubber on the ice. |
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true true
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