Feel free to express your veiws here. Don't feel obligated to convince someone else that they are not correct in there belief. My post to start this off is simple...ha. We are here! What can we do to make our world a better place for all?

I would like to talk about religion, but I don't want to offend anyone.

The only people who will be offended are usually the ones who need to hear the truth the most. Talk away, after all, your name is "songbird" for a reason, isn't it?

well I believe there is God an a devil, a heaven an a hell. I also believe God wants us to live for ourselves and do what we can to be happy here on earth. But I do not believe he has our life written out for us.. everything we choose to do is all on us..no matter what we do God will always love us. He will always forgive but never forget! When we die.. we will be judged on how we did on earth. Earth is our test to see if we are good enough for Heaven.

lol What does my username have to do anything with talking about things? I laughed a little when I saw that. I'm not trying to be rude here, but I would like to understand that better, lol.

This is what I believe.


There is one all powerful force that binds the entire universe together. It is "an energy field created by all living things. It surrounds us, penetrates us, and binds the galaxy together". This is a concept that most religions of the world concur with. Some refer to it as their deity, some refer to it as a life force, but the one thing nearly all religions agree with, is that there exists a single unifying force.

There are 2 sides to the force, the dark side and the light side. "Beware of the dark side... The dark side leads to fear. Fear leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering". Good versus Evil is a common element through most religions. The issues of good versus evil, right versus wrong permeate through the doctrines of all religions. Most religions attempt to state what is right and wrong, to establish their moral code. Sometimes religions make codes that don't reach a great consensus. Outsiders, and sometime insiders, begin to judge their religious code by something more powerful, something more innate, an innate ability to know what is right and wrong. This is the Jedi's belief, that morality, good and evil, are all axioms of the force, and that we must listen to the force so that we will know the right thing to do.

Can good exist without evil? The Jedi believe that good and evil are only axioms of the all powerful and unifying force. The force contains all that is good and all that is bad. We all are free and sentient beings who have the capability to do good or evil. It is our choice of direction that determines if we do good or evil. The existence of good and evil is necessary for freewill.

I think one thing we could all do to make this world a better place is be honest about our desires. I think honesty is paramount for serenity!

The Jedi church has no official doctrine or scripture.The Jedi church recognizes that all living things share a living force and that all people have an innate knowledge of what is right and wrong, and the Jedi Church celebrates this like no other religion.

Just the fact that they call themselves church kinda tells me what I need to know.

I for do not believe in a personal god.

I can't say that there is not something out there more advanced than us but I'm 99.9999% sure that the christian god is not it.

I believe that when we die, we die, thats it.
So we need to make the best from the life we got. Try to be the best person you can be.

The terminology used by the Jedi Church were introduced by the fictional Star Wars movies, and often references are made to the movies by our members, as a conceptual demonstration of how some might ascribe to the higher levels of a Jedi faith, in a far away land, a long time ago. The fact remains, that these concepts merely reflect a deep held innate morality, that we all have inside us, and now we have some common terminology and place to share our thoughts with each other. This morality existed prior to the movies. The movies do not in any way legitimise nor negate the legitimacy of the Jedi Church. They are merely a discussion point.

What right does anyone have to start a church? If a group of like minded people wish to organise a place and a structure to practise and discuss their religious thoughts, then that is the right of anyone who lives in a free and fair society. As soon as enough people are involved, they experience administrative issues that create costs too much for any single member to bear on their own. At that stage it is necessary that the organisation may create its own legitimate status to operate bank accounts and manage its own set of financial accounts, which are not to the betterment of any individual, and are long lasting should any founding members pass on.

I knew a girl years ago who actually thought soap operas were about real people and were like documenteries. They did a good job acting on these shows and it almost seemed real if you let yourself believe it. In reality it was just a bunch of people acting to make money. The effect was she became so involved that she would actually skip school to watch these shows. As an adult she has a very hard time functioning in the job marketplace due to a lack of education. All because of the desire of some people to make money was so strong, that they decieved veiwers by making non-reality seam real.
If Shakspere was right and "all the world is a stage, and we are but the actors", I not sure I want to be a part of any kind of a show but one that is completley based in reality. So what is reality? Any answeres?

What if we are all right? What if after we die we all go to the place we believe we will go? I believe the best (I wont say what exactly) will happen after I die because there is no penalty for being wrong.

Is the Jedi religion fiction? Many religions claim to be the one and only true religion, thus necessitating that all other religions are fictitious. In addition, although many religions claim to speak the word of God, but the truth is they are only the written word of prophets or followers of the religion. There is no way to prove or deny that what was written was the word of God. Several other religions openly admit that their text is not the word of God, and that it is only a prescribed behavior or a philosophy of life (e.g. Buddhism, Scientology). Most non fiction is a discussion of science and life, of things that can be observed, quantified and readily challenged for its truth and authenticity. But not religion. Any religion put to scrutiny is merely words on paper, with no ability to confirm its authenticity. The Jedi church makes no denial that its name and terminology originates from a fictitious past, but the concepts and ideals that are identified by Jedi followers are known for their innate truth. The sun existed before it was given a name, and it could be revered as a God, however, when the sun finally had a human name, it could be written about and communicated with others. The Jedi religion is just like the Sun, it existed before a popular movie gave it a name, and now that it has a name, people all over the world can share their experiences of the Jedi religion, here in the Jedi Church.

So in summary, no religion is truth. It is all just a matter of faith.

Thats a nice thought.

I don't think her problem with "functioning in the job marketplace" was "because of the desire of some people to make money". I think it was because "she became so involved that she would actually skip school to watch these shows".


Check out the "Nature of Reality" thread for all the answers you could possibly want and more.

found this while doing some reading, thought I'd post it, that way I don't have to type all of that. says pretty much how I believe anyway, enjoy, or not



John Rhine's Notes about Genesis/Creation

Genesis 1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
This verse does not say how long ago this happened.
It does say God created both heaven and earth in the beginning.
Isaiah 45:18 does say that he created earth perfect to be inhabited.

1:2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
"was" in verse two, is exactly the same word translated "became" in Gen. 2:7 "and man 'became' a living soul".
See the NIV translation, they suggest "or became" in place of "was".
Also see note in Scofield Bible about two interpretations.
I personally believe in Divine Judgment. If other then Divine Judgment when did Satan fall? He was already fallen in the Garden of Eden. Read of Satan's fall as described in Ezekiel 28:12-19 Son of man, take up a lamentation upon the king of Tyrus, and say unto him, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Thou sealest up the sum, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty. Tyrus means "rock", the false rock, Satan. [13] Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, (Note: This is a description of the stones on a priest's breastplate, Satan was a priest!) the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created. [14] Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire. Satan was one of the two archangels given charge to protect, i.e. cover, the throne of God. But he wanted to sit on the throne and be the one in charge, i.e. be like God. [15] Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee. [16] By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire. [17] Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee. [18] Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee. [19] All they that know thee among the people shall be astonished at thee: thou shalt be a terror, and never shalt thou be any more.

You can see evidence of it everywhere, in the geological layers of the earth's crust, in the fossils pressed between the rocks, in the bones of the dinosaurs, in the tilt of the earth's axis, etc., etc., etc.

2 Peter 3:5-7 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the Word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water: [6] Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished: Isn't this passage talking about the flood of Noah? No, it is not. The flood of Noah belongs to the next verse, the heaven and earth age which are NOW, the age of flesh man. Noah's flood occurred about 2348 B.C. and did not have any effect on heaven as this one did? [7] But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men. And there will yet be another heaven and earth age, the third and final one.2 Peter 3:13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.
Peter declares that there are three heaven and earth ages: 1) The world that then was, which perished, 2) the heaven and earth which is now, and 3) the new heaven and new earth age to come.
Paul was taken to this yet future third heaven in 2 Cor. 12:2 ...caught up to the third heaven. Yes, there are three heavens ages just as there are three earth ages.

John was taken to the third heaven in Rev. 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and thefirst earth were passed away; and there was no more sea. "first"used here is the same word translated"former" in verse 4. So the heaven and earth that pass away in this verse is the one prior to the "new" one which comes into existence "after" the lake of fire, i.e. the present earth age that we are in now, the 2nd earth age. We know from 2 Pet. 3 that there are three heaven and earth ages. It is the same earth but three different "ages" because the earth itself "abideth forever" (Eccles. 1:4). The "world that then was" (Gen 1:2), prior to the foundation of this earth age, was totally destroyed. It perished at the overthrow of Satan. This one will perish at his destruction!

I believe that at the time of Satan's rebellion God chose to destroy the "earth age that then was" and create a new heaven and a new earth, which are now, just as Peter explained. The Creator shook this old planet (or perhaps smote it with a meteor) and knocked it off of its true axis and out of its true orbit. That is why there's a magnetic declination where magnetic north and true north are as much as 80 km apart. And since the earth now "wobbles" it produces the "jet stream" which determines patterns of weather and storms. In the "world that then was" the entire earth was as a tropical garden. That is evidenced by the discovery of Mastodons in the arctic regions, frozen solid in their tracks, with buttercups still in their mouths. That global destruction, that "tohu va bohu" of Gen. 1:2, wiped out all living things, and destroyed to utter ruin all the cities and habitable places of that earth age. It is the age to which all "Fossils" and "Remains" belong. The geological evidence of a worldwide catastrophe are everywhere, and then some. Listen to our Father describe the destruction Himself.

Jeremiah 4:22-27
For my people is foolish, they have not known me; they are sottish children, and they have none understanding: they are wise to do evil, but to do good they have no knowledge. [23] I beheld the earth, and, lo, it was without form, and void; and the heavens, and they had no light. Here it is, the same "without form, and void", "tohu va bohu". And even the heavens had no light, which is why he later commanded "let there be light".There was light in the days of Noah, but not at this destruction. [24] I beheld the mountains, and, lo, they trembled, and all the hills moved lightly. [25] I beheld, and, lo, there was no man, and all the birds of the heavens were fled. This couldn't possibly be the flood of Noah, for there were at least 8 people alive then. This says there was NO MAN and NO BIRDS. [26] I beheld, and, lo, the fruitful place was a wilderness, and all the cities thereof were broken down at the presence of the LORD, and by his fierce anger. That's right! There were cities in the world that then was, and they certainly became "lost". And you and I and all of God's children were there in that "world that then was". Do you remember the mysteries that Paul taught, how in Ephesians 1:4 he tells us that God's elect were chosen before the "katabole", the overthrow of Satan, before the foundation of this earth age?
I believe that the reason scientists find no evidence of man being present during the first earth age is because we were here, not in flesh and blood bodies, but rather in our spiritual bodies just as we will be in the third and last earth age.
So we began in Gen. 1:1 with the creation, in the beginning, of a beautiful, inhabitable earth, and we end verse 2 with a dark and desolated world, destroyed by His fierce anger to a state of tohu va bohu.

And out of the total darkness now covering the earth:

Genesis 1:3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light. Genesis 1:4 And God saw the light,
that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness. [5] And God called the light
Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.
[6]And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters. [7] And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so. [8] And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.
[9] And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so. [10] And God called the dry land Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas: and God saw that it was good. [11]And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so. [12] And the earth brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: and God saw that it was good. [13] And the evening and the morning were the third day.
[14] And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years: [15] And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so. [16] And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also. [17] And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth, [18] And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good. [19] And the evening and the morning were the fourth day.
[20] And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven. [21] And God created great whales, and every living creature that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that it was good. [22] And God blessed them, saying, Be fruitful, and multiply, and fill the waters in the seas, and let fowl multiply in the earth. [23] And the evening and the morning were the fifth day.

[24] And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind: and it was so. [25] And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good. [26] And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth [27] So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them. [28] And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth. [29] And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat. [30] And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is life, I have given every green herb for meat: and it was so. [31] And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.

Some observations:
Did you notice how each new day of creation starts "And God said". [Verses 3, 6, 9, 14, 20, and 24, but not verses 1 or 2]

One of the preliminary requirements for understanding the Bible is that we learn to read what is written, as it is written, and not assume that it aligns or conforms with "tradition", i.e. what we think it says. Did you catch the word "replenish" when you read verse 28? I know I missed it for many years and my mind read "plenish". To replenish the earth is to populate it once again, for it had been populated in the world that was. Now that too makes sense!

And so God said, let "us" make mankind in "our" image. The words "us" and "our" refer back to Elohim, which is to say God and the host of heaven, or God and the angels. It does not say that man just looks like God, does it? Keep that in mind as we continue.

Remember in the "world that then was" that Satan rebelled and drew one third of God's children away from Him (Rev 12). God sentenced Satan to death at that time, but rather than sentence everyone else, He destroyed that earth age and instituted the plan of salvation, for this earth age. He did not destroy His children.

Now I ask, where did we come from? Where were we before we entered our mother's womb? I believe we came from God because we were with God! And when our flesh dies, it gets buried six feet underground, or cremated (ashes to ashes or dust to dust, it doesn't matter, we're done with it) and we "return" to Him. This is simple. Ecclesiastes tells us what happens when we die, when the silver cord is severed:

Eccles. 12:6-7
Or ever the silver cord be loosed, or the golden bowl be broken, or the pitcher be broken at the fountain, or the wheel broken at the cistern.
In other words, when you die.
[7] Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.
And so we return from "whence we cometh".
How simple and easy many scriptures and passages would be to explain if those who taught weren't "willingly ignorant" of the "world that was" and the events that transpired there? Knowing what we've just learned, could you now explain how it is that God named the prophet Jeremiah before he entered his mother's womb? Of course, he was with Him. God knew him. He says so.

Jeremiah 1:5
Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations.
Can you understand how our Father could say He hated Esau and loved Jacob, while they were still in their mother's belly (Rom 9:13)? He knew how disrespectful Esau was from before.
Can you now understand what the apostle Paul means in Ephesians 1:4 when he says that God's elect were chosen before the foundation of this world, meaning the "katabole" or "overthrow"? I believe they stood against Satan and earned the right to have God interfere in their lives and use them as He will. Our Father knows all of His children, the good and the rebellious.

So let's go back just before God creates mankind. To whom is He speaking? He says, "Let us make man in our image", "after our likeness", to look just like us.

Now think hard. Do you suppose that you look like yourself? As you did before you were born in the flesh? I'll bet you do!

On the sixth day God created mankind, the different races, the ethnos. And He created them male and female! The Hebrew word translated "man" is adam. In the manuscripts it is not preceded by the definite article 'eth and so it does not refer to a specific person, i.e. the word adam means human being or mankind, and no gender is implied. This is an extremely important point to understand in order that you may fully comprehend the events in the next few chapters.

And so God said, let "us" make mankind in "our" image. The words "us" and "our" refer back to Elohim, which is to say God and the host of heaven, or God and the angels. It does not say that man just looks like God, does it? Keep that in mind as we continue.

Was this before "'eth ha Adam" and his wife Eve were formed? Yes it was! This was the sixth day. I believe the man we call Adam was formed on the eighth day and we haven't gotten there yet. That would answer this question, "When Cain was sent forth into the land of Nod, it says he took a wife. Where in the world did she come from?" She was of the sixth day creation.

Notice also, that God gave the sixth day man dominion over the fish of the sea, the fowl of the air, and the entire wild kingdom. And so they became hunters and fishers. However, conspicuously absent from this account is any mention of farming and/or tilling the ground. Why?

Next we will see God resting for a day (How long would that be anyway?). In so far as the sun and moon are not placed until the fourth day of creation (verse 16), it would hardly seem that the current status of a day would apply, at least to days 1-3, would it? Peter told us in his second book not to be ignorant about this, especially about this one thing, because God does not reckon time as we do. 2 Peter 3:8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. God's days are not the same as man's. Are the days of creation in Genesis God's, or are they man's? Who is present and who isn't? Also, keep in mind that the Lord's Day, that Sabbath of rest, is that period of time we call the millennium, which means 1000 years. So the last "day" of this earth age will be 1000 years. There is nothing new under the sun.

Then on the next day, the one following the seventh day, which would be the eighth day, we shall meet the great, great, great..... grandparents of Jesus Christ.

The sixth day, when flesh man was brought into being, finally came to an end. And so it is now, one "week" later, that this sixth day of man's reign (6000 years), after which flesh man will be no longer, is about to come to an end. We approach the eve of the seventh day, the Lord's Day, which is the millennium.

Now back to Genesis.

Genesis 2:1 Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.
The heavens and the earth "which are now" (2 Pet. 3:7) were finished, and all the "host" of them. Look up the word "host" in your Strong's concordance. The Hebrew word is tsaba and it means a "mass of people, in waiting", i.e. the newly created heavens and earth are finished and the sons of God await their turn to "pass through this earth age", in a flesh body, born of woman.
What a joyous occasion that must have been. We read in the Book of Job how the sons of God shouted for joy at our Father's handiwork.

Job 38:1
Then the LORD answered Job out of the whirlwind, and said, [2] Who is this that darkeneth counsel by words without knowledge? [3] Gird up now thy loins like a man; for I will demand of thee, and answer thou me. [4] Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding. Job doesn't remember after being born innocent in the flesh. [without remembrance of his previous spiritual existence] [5] Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it? [6] Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof; [7] When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?
I believe we all were spirit beings created before the foundation of the world.
Genesis 2:2 And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.
[3] And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made. I believe mankind went forth and replenishing the earth during this seventh day, this millennium of rest. [4] These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens,

We now come to the eighth day, the seventh having passed away.
You will find that in just about every commentary of the Bible that the creation which follows is presented as a parenthetical insertion, a more detailed account of the creation of man which we read of in chapter 1 beginning in verse 26. I believe this is a false assumption and leads to great difficulty in explaining how it is that in chapter one the animals are created first, then man, while here in chapter two man is created first and then the animals. Which is it?

I believe there are two separate creations. We begin to "see" in the next verse.

[5] And every plant of the field before it was in the earth, and every herb of the field before it grew: for the LORD God had not caused it to rain upon the earth, and there was not a man to till the ground.
Do you recall that there was no mention in chapter one, whatsoever, of a farmer, a man to till the ground and plant seeds? The sixth day man was given dominion over the fowl of the air and the fish of the sea. There were only hunters and fishers. And so here on the eighth day, following God's day of rest (Sabbath), God says that He has "no man to till the ground".
[6] But there went up a mist from the earth, and watered the whole face of the ground. [7] And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
There are several important things to notice in this verse:
First, the Hebrew word for "formed" is yatsar, meaning to "mould" or "form" as a potter. It is not the same word as "created" in Gen. 1:26, which is bara.

Secondly (and this is crucial to our understanding), the word "man" used here is " 'eth-ha adham", with the article and particle, and means "this same man Adam". It means a specific man, not mankind in general. The Companion Bible documents this.

Lastly, we see God "breathed" into Adam's nostrils the "breath of life". The word translated "breathed" is naphach, which means to "inflate", as in He inflated Adam's lungs. But the word translated "breath" is neshamah, which means "divine inspiration", "intellect", "soul" or "spirit".

So God not only inflated Adam's lungs with "air", but placed in him his "breath of life body", i.e. his spiritual body. The apostle Paul makes it very clear in 1 Cor. 15 that we have both a flesh body and a spiritual body, and so did Adam when God was finished forming him.

[8] And the LORD God planted a garden eastward in Eden; and there he put the man whom he had formed.
God did not tell this "man" to go forth and replenish the earth. Instead, He prepared a special garden and in it placed this "same man Adam", whom He had formed.
[9] And out of the ground made the LORD God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of knowledge of good and evil. [10] And a river went out of Eden to water the garden; and from thence it was parted, and became into four heads. [11] The name of the first is Pison: that is it which compasseth the whole land of Havilah, where there is gold; [12] And the gold of that land is good: there is bdellium and the onyx stone. [13] And the name of the second river is Gihon: the same is it that compasseth the whole land of Ethiopia. [14] And the name of the third river is Hiddekel: that is it which goeth toward the east of Assyria. And the fourth river is Euphrates. [15] And the LORD God took the man, and put him into the garden of Eden to dress it and to keep it.
Our Father now has a man to till the ground, an husbandman, a gardener. His name is Adam and he is given charge to dress and maintain Eden.
[16] And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat: [17] But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.
But, there is a "tree" in the midst of the garden, which has the knowledge of good and evil, that Adam better stay away from, or it will cost him his life. As you may already know, he falls short and disobeys God, and dies at age 930, just 70 years short of one day.
We are on the eighth day. God has just formed (not created as in chapter one) a special man to "till the ground" and has placed him in the garden of Eden to dress it and keep it. Why this special creation? Because it would be through this man, 'eth ha Adam, and his soon to be formed wife, Eve, that the Messiah, our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ, would be born. It was God's plan from the beginning.

And so, we better be prepared to expect that Satan will try his best to thwart this plan of God and to destroy this woman and her offspring! If we keep this objective (to destroy the seed line of Christ) in mind throughout the Old Testament, as we read it, we will better understand the events that took place, like when king Abimelech took Sarah, after Abraham told him that she was his sister, and when Judah took "foreign" wives, and produced "non-qualified" offspring, the influx of Satan's angels in chapter six and again after the Noah's flood, the reason God told the Israelites they must kill everyone in Palestine (men, women and children), etc.

Let's now look in on Adam and see how he is doing.

Genesis 2:18 And the LORD God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him. This man Adam needed a women who was also not from among the sixth day creation. I believe the spirits placed in this Adam and Eve were spirits of beings who had been proven faithful to God in the first earth age, because it is from this man and women that Christ would be born in the flesh. [19] And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof.
These are the domestic animals, or better said, the "farm animals" that were created to compliment the "man to till the ground" whom our Father had just formed.
You will find, if you care to check it out, that in chapter 1 verse 24, God brought forth the beasts of the "earth", erets in Hebrew, meaning the "earth at large" or "wilderness", i.e. the wild animals. But here in chapter 2 verse 19 he formed every beast of the "field", sadeh in Hebrew, meaning "country" or "field", i.e. field animals or farm animals. Notice that these animals were formed AFTER the man was created whereas in chapter one the wild animals were created BEFORE mankind. These were separate creations.

[20] And Adam gave names to all cattle, and to the fowl of the air, and to every beast of the field; but for Adam there was not found an help meet for him. [21] And the LORD God caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam and he slept: and he took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh instead thereof; [22] And the rib, which the LORD God had taken from man, made he a woman, and brought her unto the man. [23] And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man. [24] Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh. [25] And they were both naked, the man and his wife, and were not ashamed.
I believe that we existed with God as created spirit beings before the foundation of the world. Are we the angels referred to in the Bible? Revelations 22:8-9 suggests that we are. John has just return to the Isle of Patmos and the realization of what has just happened suddenly overcomes him.
Rev. 22:8 And I John saw these things, and heard them. And when I had heard and seen, I fell down to worship before the feet of the angel which shewed me these things. We can only imagine the overwhelming impact it must have had on John when the reality of being taken to heaven, to the very throne of God, and witnessing the awesome events described in this book, finally "hit home". And so he fell down to worship before the feet of the angel. That's a no no! "Welcome back to the flesh and humanity", John! [9] Then saith he unto me, See thou do it not: for I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren the prophets, and of them which keep the sayings of this book: worship God. Did you hear what the angel just said? "...for I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren the prophets,..." He's our brother!
This is a very revealing verse. The angel makes it perfectly clear that he is "one of us" who has lived in the flesh, from among our brethren the prophets. He is a fellowservant and he lets us know that he is living testimony to keeping the sayings of this book, to being a "doer" of what Christ just said in verse 7, "...blessed is he that keepeth the sayings of the prophecy of this book." However, the main point being emphasized by the angel is this: We are never to worship angels! And now that you know who they are. The angel is saying "We are never to worship each other", whether we are in our flesh bodies or whether we are in our spiritual bodies, i.e. angels.Worship only God.
Another observetion to think about - The fact that the angels (sons of God) left their first estate implys that they were to some time go to a second estate. Jude 1:6. If they are not us prior to being born in the flesh, then what is the second estate that they should have waited for? Genesis 6:1-4, & 1



writings of John Rhine
"The American Wisdom Series"
Rhine Publishing
Middleton PA

But why did God destroy the first heaven and earth age?

That answer is simple.

Because of the rebellion of one whose name is Satan,
who we learn in Revelation 12 drew one third of the sons of God away from Him and into his own camp.

Ezekiel tells us what happened to this one?

Ezekiel 28:12-19
Son of man, take up a lamentation upon the king of Tyrus, and say unto him, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Thou sealest up the sum, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty.
Tyrus means "rock", the false rock, Satan.
[13] Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created. [14] Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.
Satan was one of the two archangels given charge to protect, i.e. cover, the throne of God.
But he wanted to sit on the throne and be the one in charge, i.e. be like God.

[15] Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.
This should answer the question "where did the devil come from"?
He was a free-will son of God, created by Him, perfect and beautiful.

(Note: Satan does not run around in a little red suit toting a pitch fork.)

Continuing with Satan's fall:

[16] By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire.
[17] Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee.
[18] Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee.

Satan has been judged to die the second death, i.e. to perish in the lake of fire.
That is why he is called the son of perdition, the son who will perish.

[19] All they that know thee among the people shall be astonished at thee: thou shalt be a terror, and never shalt thou be any more.
Satan will cease to exist, which is what happens when something or someone perishes.
It's gone, forever and ever!

But judgment for the rest of God's children has been postponed until after the millennium,
at the great white throne judgment, until God's plan of salvation,
of restoring His sons (whosoever will) to Him, is complete.

So, our Father chose not to judge His other children at the time of Satan's rebellion
but chose rather to destroy the "earth age that then was"
and create a new heaven and a new earth, which are now, just as Peter explained.

The Creator shook this old planet (or perhaps smote it with a meteor)
and knocked it off of its true axis and out of its true orbit.

That is why there's a magnetic declination where magnetic north and true north are as much as 80 km apart.

And since the earth now "wobbles" it produces the "jet stream" which determines patterns of weather and storms.

In the "world that then was" the entire earth was as a tropical garden. That is evidenced by the recent discovery of Mastodons in the artic regions, frozen solid in their tracks, with buttercups still in their mouths.

That global destruction, that "tohu va bohu" of Gen. 1:2, wiped out all living things,
and destroyed to utter ruin all the cities and habitable places of that earth age.

It is the age to which all "Fossils" and "Remains" belong.

The geological evidence of a worldwide catastrophe are everywhere, and then some.

Listen to our Father describe the destruction Himself.

Jeremiah 4:22-27
For my people is foolish, they have not known me; they are sottish children, and they have none understanding: they are wise to do evil, but to do good they have no knowledge.
Dr. Moffat translates the first part of this verse
"It is because my people are stupid, and know me not;".
Look up the word "sottish", it means "stupid".

Hey, He tells it like it is!

[23] I beheld the earth, and, lo, it was without form, and void; and the heavens, and they had no light.
Here it is, the same "without form, and void", "tohu va bohu".
And even the heavens had no light, which is why he later commanded "let there be light".

There was light in the days of Noah, but not at this destruction.

[24] I beheld the mountains, and, lo, they trembled, and all the hills moved lightly.
The earth was violently shaken.
[25] I beheld, and, lo, there was no man, and all the birds of the heavens were fled.
This couldn't possibly be the flood of Noah, for there were at least 8 people alive then.
This says there was NO MAN and NO BIRDS.

[26] I beheld, and, lo, the fruitful place was a wilderness, and all the cities thereof were broken down at the presence of the LORD, and by his fierce anger.
That's right!
There were cities in the world that then was, and they certainly became "lost".

And you and I and all of God's children were there in that "world that then was".

Do you remember the mysteries that Paul taught,
how in Ephesians 1:4 he tells us that God's elect were chosen before the "katabole",
the overthrow of Satan, before the foundation of this earth age?

(Stay with us and we'll document it.)

And so we began in Gen. 1:1 with the creation, in the beginning,
of a beautiful, inhabitable earth,
and we end verse 2 with a dark and desolated world,
destroyed by His fierce anger to a state of tohu va bohu.

And out of the total darkness now covering the earth:

Genesis 1:3
And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.
This light was not the "sun",
for it will not be present until the fourth day of creation.
This "light" would divide the darkness,
and so there would be that choice in this world age,
to choose light or to choose darkness.

The choice is ours.

Here's your light:

John 8:12
Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life.


from Rhine Publishing
writer John Rhine
Middleton PA