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| Topic: The Problem of Evil and Theodicy | |
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"Either God wants to abolish evil, and cannot; or he can, but does not want to. If he wants to, but cannot, he is impotent. If he can, but does not want to, he is wicked. If God can abolish evil, and God really wants to do it, why is there evil in the world?"
--Epicurus The Christian answer to Epicurus has always been the same, but it's sometimes very difficult to verbalize. Dennis Prager does a great job of explaining Theodicy in the video linked below. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2jRMWKz4hbw&feature=related I hope this helps those of you who struggle with this question. This post isn't intended to inspire debate, it's been debated to death for more than 2000 years. 
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It is also possible that the mainstream "church" has a misguided view of the issue
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God created evil when he created imperfection as imperfection breed sin worship and praise which means that anything that is imperfect and/or has committed sin is evil
Therefore ..evil cannot exist unless god creates imperfection |
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There are two gods.The god of this world and the god of another.
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God created evil when he created imperfection as imperfection breed sin worship and praise which means that anything that is imperfect and/or has committed sin is evil Therefore ..evil cannot exist unless god creates imperfection Since mankind has displayed (as a whole) that we are both evil and good... therefore god is both evil and good (by our limited understanding of those concepts) Since we are created in his image...(or so it is said) |
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God created evil when he created imperfection as imperfection breed sin worship and praise which means that anything that is imperfect and/or has committed sin is evil Therefore ..evil cannot exist unless god creates imperfection Since mankind has displayed (as a whole) that we are both evil and good... therefore god is both evil and good (by our limited understanding of those concepts) Since we are created in his image...(or so it is said) "AdventureBegins"..the concept of good and evil varies upon the laws enacted by man.. what one society or person considers to be good another society or person may consider it to be evil .. since a God's laws are absolute any violation of those laws are evil therefore a god can be neither good nor evil only his creations can be good or evil ..they are good if they follow god's laws and are evil if they violate God's laws |
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God created evil when he created imperfection as imperfection breed sin worship and praise which means that anything that is imperfect and/or has committed sin is evil Therefore ..evil cannot exist unless god creates imperfection Since mankind has displayed (as a whole) that we are both evil and good... therefore god is both evil and good (by our limited understanding of those concepts) Since we are created in his image...(or so it is said) "AdventureBegins"..the concept of good and evil varies upon the laws enacted by man.. what one society or person considers to be good another society or person may consider it to be evil .. since a God's laws are absolute any violation of those laws are evil therefore a god can be neither good nor evil only his creations can be good or evil ..they are good if they follow god's laws and are evil if they violate God's laws Respectfully disagree with you opinion... Man made laws do not cause a person to do or not do... If a person does not consider that law to be a valid premise (i.e. a career thief does not consider stealing evil) man made laws will allways be broken. God's laws are subject to the approval of men... Just read the Bible, Koran, etc... Have you ever considered that for a person who BELIEVS in satan... Satan IS god. Evil is a concept of perception. |
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Edited by
Spidercmb
on
Wed 10/29/08 12:39 PM
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God created evil when he created imperfection as imperfection breed sin worship and praise which means that anything that is imperfect and/or has committed sin is evil Therefore ..evil cannot exist unless god creates imperfection Since mankind has displayed (as a whole) that we are both evil and good... therefore god is both evil and good (by our limited understanding of those concepts) Since we are created in his image...(or so it is said) We have a hardness scale, everything that is tangible has a hardness. So cotton has a hardness and so does stone. We don't measure softness, "soft" is a word used to describe something which is low on the hardness scale. In the same way, evil is a word used to describe the absence of good. God is always maximum good, so God is not evil. We are created in God's image in that we are capable of good and desire to see justice, but we are fallible, so we don't always live up to that image. Edit: Some forces are measured as opposites, Magnetism for example. But other forces are measured on a single scale, like heat and light. They start at "0" and go up, there is no negative to the scale. 0 light is no light at all, just like 0 degrees Kelvin means that there is absolutely no heat. In the case of light, we only measure the number of photons, we don't measure the amount of "dark". In the case of heat, we measure the amount of heat, not the amount of "cold". There is no such thing as "cold", cold is a word used to describe the amount of heat present in a system. |
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God created evil when he created imperfection as imperfection breed sin worship and praise which means that anything that is imperfect and/or has committed sin is evil Therefore ..evil cannot exist unless god creates imperfection Since mankind has displayed (as a whole) that we are both evil and good... therefore god is both evil and good (by our limited understanding of those concepts) Since we are created in his image...(or so it is said) We have a hardness scale, everything that is tangible has a hardness. So cotton has a hardness and so does stone. We don't measure softness, "soft" is a word used to describe something which is low on the hardness scale. In the same way, evil is a word used to describe the absence of good. God is always maximum good, so God is not evil. We are created in God's image in that we are capable of good and desire to see justice, but we are fallible, so we don't always live up to that image. Edit: Some forces are measured as opposites, Magnetism for example. But other forces are measured on a single scale, like heat and light. They start at "0" and go up, there is no negative to the scale. 0 light is no light at all, just like 0 degrees Kelvin means that there is absolutely no heat. In the case of light, we only measure the number of photons, we don't measure the amount of "dark". In the case of heat, we measure the amount of heat, not the amount of "cold". There is no such thing as "cold", cold is a word used to describe the amount of heat present in a system. Scales--- Tools of Man. Evil - if you believe in god-by-christ... Satan. Good - if you believe in god-by-christ... God/spirit/christ. Evil - if you believe in satan... God. good - if you believe in satan... Satan. Evil is a concept of perception. As is good. Neither is a reality based concept but might be just a polarity of the concept of being. |
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When something has been debated for 2000 years that says something . . . .
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Scales--- Tools of Man. Scales are the tools of men, you are absolutely correct. But if mankind ceased to exist, it wouldn't mean that suddenly there would be a substance called "dark". Dark is and always will be the absence of light. There wouldn't be a type of energy called "cold", cold is the absence of heat. So your point is moot. Moving on... |
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When something has been debated for 2000 years that says something . . . . It means that so people are more tenacious than honest. The Christian answer to the problem of evil hasn't changed, those who ask the question just refuse to accept simple logic. I'm sorry, but if you have watched the video I linked and you believe that the question isn't answered then you have set an unreasonably high expectation for the answer. |
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Edited by
Bushidobillyclub
on
Wed 10/29/08 12:52 PM
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When something has been debated for 2000 years that says something . . . . It means that so people are more tenacious than honest. The Christian answer to the problem of evil hasn't changed, those who ask the question just refuse to accept simple logic. I'm sorry, but if you have watched the video I linked and you believe that the question isn't answered then you have set an unreasonably high expectation for the answer. That is a false Dichotomy. Scales--- Tools of Man. Scales are the tools of men, you are absolutely correct. But if mankind ceased to exist, it wouldn't mean that suddenly there would be a substance called "dark". Dark is and always will be the absence of light. There wouldn't be a type of energy called "cold", cold is the absence of heat. So your point is moot. Moving on... So your saying good is a substance, a thing . . . . |
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Scales--- Tools of Man. Scales are the tools of men, you are absolutely correct. But if mankind ceased to exist, it wouldn't mean that suddenly there would be a substance called "dark". Dark is and always will be the absence of light. There wouldn't be a type of energy called "cold", cold is the absence of heat. So your point is moot. Moving on... Cold/heat - measurable Light/dark - measurable Evil/good - please measure this for me and get back with a verifiable result... 
cold is not cold if you come from the depths of space... Heat is not hot if you are from the surface of the sun... Each thing is measure based on the reality of the one that holds the measure. |
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Scales--- Tools of Man. Scales are the tools of men, you are absolutely correct. But if mankind ceased to exist, it wouldn't mean that suddenly there would be a substance called "dark". Dark is and always will be the absence of light. There wouldn't be a type of energy called "cold", cold is the absence of heat. So your point is moot. Moving on... Cold/heat - measurable Light/dark - measurable Evil/good - please measure this for me and get back with a verifiable result...
cold is not cold if you come from the depths of space... Heat is not hot if you are from the surface of the sun... Each thing is measure based on the reality of the one that holds the measure. Cold and Hot are terms used to describe the amount of heat in a system. Good and Evil are terms used to describe the amount of moral behavior exhibited by a free moral agent. To measure Good and evil would be an impossible task for anyone who wasn't omniscient. Luckily, God is omniscient. |
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So your saying good is a substance, a thing . . . . No, Good is a description used when describing an amount of moral behavior. God is maximum good, therefore all of God's actions are moral. Nothing I said even came close to equating good with being a substance. What kind of fallacy is it when you put words into your opponents mouth? |
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Edited by
Spidercmb
on
Wed 10/29/08 01:06 PM
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That is a false Dichotomy. Maybe, but not by much. You either accept the Christian Theodicy or you reject it. If you reject it, then I would want to know why. The Bible makes the Christian Theodicy very clear, so I think anyone who rejects it must be placing an unreasonable burden upon the Christians for answering the question. Edit: When discussing the Problem of Evil within a particular belief system, you cannot inject your own skepticism about the religion. The discussion must be how the belief system presents the problem of evil and the corresponding Theodicy. If you reject some piece of the Theodicy, then you must explain why it is rejected in terms of the belief system. |
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So your saying good is a substance, a thing . . . . No, Good is a description used when describing an amount of moral behavior. God is maximum good, therefore all of God's actions are moral. Nothing I said even came close to equating good with being a substance. What kind of fallacy is it when you put words into your opponents mouth? You are comparing it to light . . . which is a thing . .. this is not a stretch . . . You are saying there can be a value associate with good. That would again harken back to Adventures question can you measure this? If so its a substance. |
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Scales--- Tools of Man. Scales are the tools of men, you are absolutely correct. But if mankind ceased to exist, it wouldn't mean that suddenly there would be a substance called "dark". Dark is and always will be the absence of light. There wouldn't be a type of energy called "cold", cold is the absence of heat. So your point is moot. Moving on... Cold/heat - measurable Light/dark - measurable Evil/good - please measure this for me and get back with a verifiable result...
cold is not cold if you come from the depths of space... Heat is not hot if you are from the surface of the sun... Each thing is measure based on the reality of the one that holds the measure. Cold and Hot are terms used to describe the amount of heat in a system. Good and Evil are terms used to describe the amount of moral behavior exhibited by a free moral agent. To measure Good and evil would be an impossible task for anyone who wasn't omniscient. Luckily, God is omniscient. Good and evil are simply terms used to describe the poles of a bipolar system... Or am I missing something here... Perhaps I misread the bible in some small way. Is it not a history of the struggle of polar opposites to control from the extreame, the direction of the growth of humanity. Neither extreame appears to believe in the truth of free will... for to allow free will would let mankind chart the narrow way of the center of the Um/yang while also allowing for exploration of each half of the whole that is the actual potential of the human race. A potential that is limited only by boundry WE set on glory. |
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So your saying good is a substance, a thing . . . . No, Good is a description used when describing an amount of moral behavior. God is maximum good, therefore all of God's actions are moral. Nothing I said even came close to equating good with being a substance. What kind of fallacy is it when you put words into your opponents mouth? You are comparing it to light . . . which is a thing . .. this is not a stretch . . . You are saying there can be a value associate with good. That would again harken back to Adventures question can you measure this? If so its a substance. Heat can be measured, is heat a substance? I can measure your height, am I measuring your substance? I can measure the amount of time it takes you to count to 100, does that mean I've measured a substance? I used light and heat as analogies. Surely you knew that. Surely you have encountered an analogy in your lifetime, haven't you? |
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