The History channel and the discovery channel often have many shows now about UFO's and USO's (underwater craft) that were spotted and traced by the Navy and air force and seen by many people.

There are more and more shows about these things being shown on television. I think perhaps the powers that control are preparing people for the truth. Over 60% of people polled believe in these inner or extra terrestrials.

I have met several people who have had very close encounters, and a one guy who claims to have been abducted repeatedly who I met in Lamar. So many people will not even talk about their experiences for fear they will be ridiculed and laughed at.

These are mysteries I don't ignore, but acknowledge as truth.

Yeah, Ive heard about underwater UFOs too.

You don't know that, except from what you suspect has happened here on earth. You are still thinking in terms of the earth being the center of the universe I think.

The vast universe probably has earth-like planets with human like creatures in it a long way from the Milky way galaxy.

Think big.

With all due respect Jeannie, I think you're the one who isn't giving biology enough credit for true diversity.

If you think that human like life evolves naturally on other planets I think you're truely missing the potential of DNA.

In fact, everytime I hear you talk about human beings having bred with a Draconian and having half of their reptilian DNA I really need to be careful that I don't have a mouth full of tea.

Also this has absolutely nothing to do with the idea that humans are anymore special than any other life form.

We would be just as alien to them as they would be to us. It doesn't favor any particular aliens. We'd just be one of many 'alien' species in the universe. Nothing special.

Or at least no more special than any other sentient aliens.

There's nothing human-centric about it at all. We'd be aliens to them, they would be aliens to us. Where's the favoritism?

Fortunatley, the aliens have learned Hooked On Phonics. LOL.

That what I was surmising also Abra. The earth is supposed to be guessed at what 4.5 billion years? I mean I think that is the current day estimate of Geologists. Of course I dont recommend that we poll the religion forum for people's varying opinions of that question or else it will become very confusing. Lets just say 4 and a half.

So it seems very likely that there are stars and other terrestrial planets that are also that age or close. It seems logical, purely from a comparative standpoint utilizing what we understand to be the time it took for complex life to evolve on Earth that something like this would have happened again.But that is probably being "human centric" but in a way I feel compelled to act in that capacity because I am viewing this through the glass of my understanding of what evolutionary biology entails. And its probably inaccurate to assume it had to happen exactly as it did here. Im guessing MANY of these stars are actually older than our sun which leads me to the next logical conclusion that if there is life, its actually MORE evolved than what we comprehend it to be on earth. We probably wont be dealing with naked apes exactly.

??

Maybe they have seen us and they have no interest. Maybe they find human beings annoying and want to put as much distance between us and their world as they possibly can. Maybe they routinely turn off their high beams in space when they think they might be detected by "those monkey things."

Maybe they would much rather have the planet but take us out of the equation all together. We might be living on prime real estate.

Jeanniebean and Abracadabra:



I told you I was bias towards humans.... simply because I am human and I like being a human. They are my favorite life form to incarnate into at this time. I believe they (we) are special. To be human is joyful and challenging and creative.

Humans are special because being both sentient, emotional and creative they are, in my opinion, on the leading edge of the manifestation and creation of the universe.

This is because I believe that thoughts and "thinking centers" are the creative tools of consciousness and that humans are designed with the capacity to be sentient creatures with minds whose emotions and thoughts can impress (and move) the thinking conscious universes with their desires and these creative thoughts manifest into their reality.

You of all people, Abra, who has just discovered the magick of witchcraft, or so you claim, and you who claim to believe in pantheism and a conscious universe sometimes sound like a skeptical atheist scientist clinging to the limited logic of mainstream scientific thought.



None of my premise dismisses science or biology in the least. It is entirely possible that everything I have concluded is true under both science and my basic premise which is that the driving force behind life in this universe is consciousness which manifests.

The universe is alive and conscious. That is pantheism in my book.

DNA is not the thing that is responsible for the evolution of human-like life in my opinion. Yes it has great diversity, but it is just information and material. Consciousness only uses information and DNA as material to manifest itself.

Awareness and spirit is the driving force, not material or DNA. I may be mistaken, but I thought this was the way you believed.

Life is not an accident. Life is on purpose.

As for humans and 'reptilian aliens' cross breeding I don't see what is so difficult to believe about that. Biologically they are both humanoids and probably very similar. (Have you ever heard about what happens with a pet male iguana and a female human? Strange as this sounds male iguanas are attracted to and become very romantic over female humans. Something about chemical attraction and pheromones.)

The mating of the fallen angels and human women is written about in the Bible, even stating that the children became "men of renown" or "giants of men." (These are the royal bloodlines.)



What did you mean by "It" in the sentence "It doesn't favor any particular aliens"?

You are correct and I agree that there are many alien species in the universe and not all of them are humanoid. These creatures, sentient or not, manifest from the oneness which is conscious, using the material and information which is shared and stored within the universal mind and the body of the universe.

JB

Im talking about humans. Parallel evolution. I know that human life is possible. I know that earth is possible. People like us dont seem that unrealistic to me.

Not at all. I cant remember now what the exact numbers were but I think something like 10% of the stars existing in our Milky way could potentially meet the criteria to support the prerequisites of evolutionary biology. Maybe at one point it started and then there was a disaster of some kind. A supernova explosion or whatever took place. Then it needs to begin again in another location. We just got lucky. Ive got no problem with that at all and nothing would make me more excited quite honestly. It happened here, it can happen anywhere. But it could be different of course also. To what extreme, I dunno.

I haven't claimed to have discovered magick yet. I've simply found a very well-organized philosophy that appears to be quite promising on many levels, one of which is the ability to call upon, story, amplify, transform and direct spiritual energy (or vibrational energy for those who don't care to think in terms of spirituality), which has been traditionally referred to as 'magick'.

I make no excuse or defense for believing in reason. I don't cling to 'logic'. Logic is nothing more than formalized systems of reasoning created by men. Formal logical systems have their limitations. I value my own intuitive reasoning over formal logical systems. Formal logical systems are built upon rigid axioms and premises. I am fully aware that those axioms and premises may indeed be incorrect. When I speak in terms of a formal logical systems I am speaking in terms of a system of axioms and premises which may or may not have anything to do with the true nature of existence.

While it's true that I have a good understanding of mainstream scientific thought, I don't defend it blindly, but I will argue it's merit based on the premises, observations and experiences that back it up.

You accuse me of clinging to mainstream science, I could just as easily accuse you of clinging to a belief in Draconians.

It's a moot accusation either way.

Believe as you will, and harm none.

Blessed Be!



I believe it's both. Yes, I believe that our underlying true essence is indeed spirit. But it's a spirit playing with building blocks and therefore you can't just dismiss the building blocks as being irrelevant.

You often refer to the universe as a hologram. You tend to think of it as a holodeck. Like as if there is nothing 'real' about the physical world. It's all just a projection of some supernatural mind or spirit. It's just a lightshow. This cause you to focus almost entirely on the projector and to view the screen as merely a canvass to be painted on.

I don't think that way. I give the physical manifestation of the world more interactive power than that. Because of this I can see the power within the manifestations. Physical objects are 'real' in the sense that they are indeed spiritual energy in the form of standing waves. They are just as 'real' as anything. And they vibrate according to laws we call 'physics'. So I'm not about to denounce the scientific method and physics as being completely useless or meaningless. Not by a long shot.

It's the study of how energy (spirit) becomes physical via standing wave vibrations.

So, I'm not about to dismiss the value of DNA, nor the process of evolution that brought it into manifestation.

That doesn't make me an atheists. It just says that I have a reasoned theory of how spiritual energy becomes manifest in the universe. And I view that manifestation as being 'real' not just a holographic lightshow.

In other words, I view the physical world to be just a 'real' as the spiritual world. In fact I see them as being one in the same. Physical reality is just the way that spirit is taking shape.

As far as the human form is concerned, I think it's pretty cool too in some ways. In other ways it's not so hot. Hemorrhoids are no fun for example. I can give personal testimony to that. And yes, I know I wouldn't be so intimate with them if I didn't sit around on my butt all day. But that's material for a different thread.

I have no idea what it would be like to be another lifeform. for all we know being a butterfly might be the ultimate physical experience. Maybe they are in a state of pure ecstasy at every moment of their existence. How could we know without having been one?

I don't believe that the human form was the 'goal' of evolution or the spiritual mind. If it was then why even bother becoming dinosaurs along the way? Clearly we must enjoy being dinosaurs, we did it for millions of years. "We" meaning the spiritual mind of the universe.

Isn't that what you believe we are? How do you explain the dinosaurs if you refuse to give any credit to DNA and the process of evolution? Or do you just reject that they ever existed? Or how about bats. They certainly exist today. Do you think bats are just 'props' in the hologram that we imagine to make the world more interesting? How about dogs and cats? How about monkeys, whales and dolphins?

I don't draw a spiritual line between human beings and other animals. Do you?

By the way, my view here can hardly be said to be mainstream. Most people vehemently hold that humans are spiritual special and distinctly different from all other animals in matters of their spiritual essence.

I do not believe that at all. I believe that all is spirit. And we are no exception. That's far from mainstream thinking.

The old tree is drawing me close to his side,
I want to touch, feel the energy
And while I do stroke it
I feel it flowing right through me.

I want to spend more time there
Yet I must be on my way
But the energy’s still flowing
Whether I go or whether I stay.

The memory of the old tree
And the feel of its energy
Where ever I will go from here
It will stay with me

We have evidence of non-human intelligence right here on earth...

There are several species that exihbit various levels of intelligence.

Or are you perhpas wanting only levels of 'intelligence' that meet or exceed our own self centered awareness.

Given that several species here DO show intelligence in their daily activities... It would be reasonable to expect that in the vastness that IS within our vision there may be an intelligence or three that is as us or greater.

Abra -- You know, I've heard this line of reasoning all my life, and it seemed credible until a little while back when I really started to think about it.

And the more I think about it, the more specious it seems.

I mean, you can't reliably extrapolate the duplicable existence of a circumstance or a condition based on one isolated known occurrence.

For example -- let's say you were walking in a park one day, and you happened to see a box turtle trudging along on the side of the walking path. For some reason, the turtle has a 1963 penny stuck on his back.

Now, you could say, "There are millions and millions of box turtles in the world, and millions and millions of 1963 pennies, so therefore it must be that some significant percentage of all box turtles have 1963 pennies on their backs."

But -- what is it based on?

It's not based on anything other than an isolated observation of a singular occurrence. Any extrapolation from that observation is clearly unscientific (it has to be tested before "science" can even enter the equation) and, ultimately, baseless enough to qualify as sheer stab-in-the-dark guesswork.

And it may be, in fact, that there are ten million box turtles walking around with pennies on their backs, but I see no reason to assume this.

We don't have the means, as humans, to scientifically test for the existence of life on other planets, outside of the few planets that are close enough to send probes to. Even then, they could easily miss any form of life that is "alien" enough to us to have escaped detection through the normal means.

I'm not doubting that there may very well be life on other planets, in other galaxies, even in other universes. I have a vested interest in that being the case, in fact.

I just don't think the math is a viable method of supporting the argument, though.

The fact that we know life has evolved on one world in no way bears on what may or may not have happened on any other world, positive or negative. Until we find supporting examples and can prove we're not "one-of-a-kind," we have to allow for the possibility that there may simply be nothing else "alive" out there.

Interesting post Abra!



You could accuse me of anything you want. I would like nothing more than to discover, beyond any reasonable doubt that draconians and reptilian and other monsters do not exist. If this information and evidence came from a single source, I would be working very hard on discrediting and disproving that single source. But alas, everywhere I go, I bump into evidence that points to these strange creatures. I don't even go looking for it, it is just there.




I don't think I did. I just don't give them (building blocks and DNA) all the credit.

Because the building blocks and the DNA had to come from somewhere. They came from the first source... what ever you want to call it... spirit, consciousness, etc.




The universe is holographic in nature yes. But we determine what is "real." Experience is real. If we can experience each other within a holographic universe, then that is reality and is certainly real.



You get no argument from me on the above.



It is real but it is holographic in its structure. Everything you see and touch and feel is light and sound and vibration.



Agreed.



Cure hemorrhoids with fiber, (Metamusil works wonders)



You probably have been one. Just concentrate and remember.



For the experience. The goal of consciousness is always changing and improving the life forms it manifests.




I did not refuse any such thing. Dinosaurs were part of the evolution process.



All creatures are part of the process of evolution and experience of spirit.



Not really.

It will never be proven that there IS NOT life in the universe.That would be impossible considering the (apparently) infinite vastness of the universe.

Right. With something like 20 billion star systems (or whatever Carl Sagan goes on about) it just seems like a needle in a haystack. Or a needle in several billion haystacks.

But, that doesnt mean that something may not contact us. Unless we are just far too loathsome, abhorrent, monkey like, smelly or dangerous to bother with.

It may be impossible to communicate effectively (due to time and distance factors)and travel to another star system would require FTL and that is beyond anything we can currently conceive with our modern technology.

Life on other planets I am quite sure, intelligent life then who knows. Look here on earth how many species is there counting humans so why did we evolve so much compare to the other animals, they might have some intelligence here but nothing compare to what our brain can do and why is that. Is it just evolution that made us pick up a rock and use it as a tool and think that if we use this with this it could make this.

Life elsewhere yes for sure, reasoning, deducing, the why effect makes us different can it happen somewhere else who knows.

What about artificial intelligence?That seems like a relatively realistic possibility in the very near future.