Good to see you

Death is like sleep. No knowledge of time. In the 1st ressurrection those of his will come alive. Shalom..Miles

beginning and end

not concerned

rest for the dead renewal for the still living...

Death is simply.. Not death... but death
to all the bad things,like bad memories..
sickness... age....stress...pain...hate.. ect ect.. Now I see myself no longer in the flesh, one day.. but in a blink of an eye RENEWED! So many fail to understand that this life determines how ur next Eternal life will be... Now nobody can convince me that a human being is just gonna fade away like animals...trees... houses.. and everything else...Everything else we see won't be "alive" but us... Dont people relize were so much more??? more valuable.... than fish, and worms?? Think, use your brain... This world was made for us! ....... if u think.. just think about it...answer me straight...doesnt it seem like this world was made for us? Dont u see a flower and think how beautiful? I know bad things happen, but how would we know about "good" things without bad... And when we die we know both bad and good and whichever we chose will determine
our Eternal life. ...I think in the end.. the world has to reveal EVERYTHING to us, because were moving to The other stage.

my idea is once your gone youre gone. thats it, worms eat you, no higher beings nothing. just dirt and your lifeless corpse.

I love this thread!

It really goes to the very core of what is probably the most universally important religious/philosophical issue of all.

Good questions Tribo.

i agree sky. this is basically the foundation of all religions. its your reward/punishment in all religions. good insight good thread. good friggin thinking people ;)

I see it as an end of living in the only hell I'll ever know.

You think this reality is Hell? Why?

Do you realize that you are responsible for creating your own personal reality, hence you created the Hell you live in. You are responsible for your own experiences.

I'm sorry you live in Hell.

JB

Make it not so...

And it will be as you make it.

You are your only source to glory.

Look into the mirror and say I AM.

well it seems to me their are really only a few opinions that fall into being so far:

1) we die and that's it

2) we die and still exist in some type of after life

as i say - so far the post will remain open till i here from all.

but in this i wonder - which is correct? can both be correct? seems not huh?

so what makes you sure your take on this is the right one? simply because you think man is special as compared to all else you see? if so what and why do you think mans is so special? could this not possibly be an ego problem or self centered observation? Or is it that this view you hold gives you the hope or determination to continue through this present expierience your going through? And if so why? What do you think on this?

Tribo - I'm liking your questions


It's the right one for me as this is how I believe things to be.


I see man as special not in his being but in his actions.


Dont see this as an ego pblm nor self centered observation.

I would agree with you in the sense that there seems to basically be the two fundamental approaches when questioning life after death. We will leave the physical body but the soul will go off someplace else and we will be aware or else awareness ends with the demise of the physical body. Those are the big two assumptions. However the details vary tremendously.I almost picture it with an eye to entomology and as an insect leaving a cocoon. Of course I have no way of knowing.

I also will constantly remind myself that there is really no conclusive evidence to support the existence of a soul. There is nothing that we can successfully do to capture it or any scientific methodology to utilize in order to clearly document a spirit realm. So with that always present in the back of my mind, I know that humans tend to gravitate towards the premise of an after world and some sort of continued awareness postmortem. It stands to reason and we see people fighting in vain even on these forums to somehow substantiate such a belief because it "gives them solace."

I just cant draw this conclusion beyond a shadow of a doubt to my own satisfaction. I will always wonder and second guess and re-formulate. So I can not tell you which premise is correct. I would surmise that they can not both be correct as the body is organic and the brain interprets electrical impulses sent by neurons. I dont know that my take on anything is worthwhile or viable. I simply form a hypothesis based on observations over the years and go from there.

Tribo you are familiar with my take on man and that I find the theory of evolution and the process of anthropogenesis to be the most substantially credible theory out there thus far. In this case, I do believe that homo sapien sapien is nothing more than a mammal and another species that comprises the animal kingdom. There is no "superiority" as it relates to death and no social hierarchy to contend with. We are but one branch extending from the primate tree, a few precious DNA sequence base pairs from our chimpanzee cousins.

The only disconnection I can comprehend is primarily spurred on and constantly reinforced by religious indoctrination or any form of belief that sets man apart from his animal brethren.

I believe that when our physical body "dies" we discard it and continue to exist.

"We" don't die, only our physical body "dies" or ceases to operate as programed.

"...so what makes you sure your take on this is the right one? simply because you think man is special as compared to all else you see?

I personally believe my take on this is right because I have experienced the "delusion" or "illusion" or "experience" of being aware and conscious outside of my physical body. It was just as "real" as anything else ~so I was convinced.

Of course I don't rule out the possibility that it was simply a very convincing delusion or hallucination. However I can see no logical reason for having such a hallucination or delusion or having the equipment to be able to produce such an experience in the first place, so I am going with my gut feeling that it was a real experience that has a reason and meaning, and not a simply meaningless hallucination.

To judge whether or not mankind (Humankind) is "special" you would have to have something to compare "humankind" with.

Special compared to "all else you see?" Well, that would be like trying to compare apples to horses.

S I will compare humans to the the (imagined) galaxy aliens (that many people deny exists.)

Humans are "different" creatures than the Milky Way galaxy inhabitants. Even after being genetically altered and mixed with galaxy alien genes, they retained their "special" gift.

Yes, they are "special." The earth and our solar system is "special." We are special.

The galaxy aliens have been trying to figure out what makes us special for a long time.

I'm sure some of them have figured it out, but others still think and see us as lower forms of life compared to them.

JB

nice replies ladies:

first to franshade:

you say it's "right" for you - but are you so sure confident/positive that your correct, that you don't leave room for change if newer more evidence comes forth to the contrary?

can you diefine mans actions that are different than other animals for me?

and could you explain a littlte more on why you don't see this as a self-centered problem or ego based?



TO KRISMA:

i understand your thought on us being no more than another animal, but do you really think that those few diff. in dna are really the cause for this? or is there something more?


TO JB:

I understand that anytime we have things happen to us outside of what concidered the norm as to spiritual things or things of another dimension that it could or does seem illusional to others who have not had such as you've had - though i have not had an OB expierience i have seen as i told you a long time ago some formless thing arise out of someone who had just died and this was during a time wen i was not into religion so i dont take it as connected to that in anyway, i never told anyone of this till i got married, and nothing much was said about it one way or the other at that time but i like you know that i know what i saw and no one could tell me i didn't, now.

That said, even though we have seen things many have not - real or imaginary, have you in your spiritul journey's of this type been there long enough to know conclusively that where and what you were doing was proof of this or were they short momentary jonts so to say where there was not time to explore or determine past any doubt what your expieriences were? in other words, did the expierience itself have enough concreteness to it that you would bet your eternal soul that this is it!!

A continuum...

Not concerned...

Neither renewal nor rest... just a different suit/ appearance.

Death is life.

Tribo can you explain your question? I know you are not interested in the theory of evolution at all but are you asking me if I feel that animals have no souls? Or that their souls are different from ours? Or that the difference in DNA are actually what create some level of implied superiority as it relates to souls?


Please elaborate. I might just need some coffee also.

the latter of the three was what i was reffering to my lady, the last as to dna

Always one to learn, but until "I" find otherwise for "me" so it shall be. Open to opinions of others but doesnt mean I am easily swayed. If there is more for me, then so be it, if not, then so be it.


not sure I follow, I read as such: can I define man's actions which differ from other animals? Helping one another, could be as simple as a hug, a shoulder, support etc, selfless acts without the expectation of rewards or recognition is what I mean by a man's actions.


I see life as a giant ride, it is what it is.

Not based on self esteem, but choices. I chose to make the best of every situation, works for me. Doesnt mean I am feeding an ego nor it's self centered, I just chose to spend my time on this earth positively. If there's an afterlife, we'll talk about it then. jmo

You seek certainty. I am sorry, I could never provide that for you, or even for myself.

For me to say that I was 100% certain,even to this day, would mean that I have closed my investigation and that I am no longer open for any other possibilities, for I would have decided that I have the final truth and I know that now and forever.

You seek proof, and I say that proof is a personal thing and depends upon belief.

Yes I doubt the experiences ~but only because they seemed to deviate from the norm but they still loom as vivid experiences.

As I said, I don't rule out the possibility that I was hallucinating. But logic convinces me that the visions and experiences were just as real and valid and concrete as my day to day life.

Why should I doubt my day to day life? Is it too an illusion? A dream? (It certainly could be. And so what if it is?)

There is one thing of which I am certain. I exist, and I am quite certain I am more than what I perceive myself to be in the flesh.

I am.

And I would never bet my "soul" (or myself) into servitude for any reason, not even concerning this day to day reality and whether it is real or just an illusion or projection.

It very well be a holographic projection and not "reality" at all.

That would mean that reality is something quite different. Perhaps very unbelievable.

JB