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| Topic: why is telling | |
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Edited by
SkyHook5652
on
Wed 10/22/08 09:23 PM
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an omnipotent being that we love him sufficent reason for getting into heaven? cause he said so?
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:sniff:
:sniff: :sniff: Is someone burning Sarcasm incense in here? |
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an omnipotent being that we love him sufficent reason for getting into heaven? It's not...what religion teaches that it is? christianity. thesomeone told me that if i accept jesus christ ast my savior i would be well...saved. so i asked exactly what he meant by savior. he meant that jesus died to save our souls because he loved us, so in turn we must love the lord. those who believe in christ get to go to heaven. thus those who love god get in... like i said i think im hung up on the semantics There is a bit more to it than love. You must accept Jesus as your savior, which means you must acknowledge that you cannot save yourself. You can love Jesus all day, but until you accept that he is necessary to your salvation, I don't believe you can be saved. Those who believe in Christ don't necessarily go to heaven. Demons believe in Jesus and they are not saved. There will be many Christians who believe they are saved, but are not. Salvation is a deceptively simple topic, but it's really the most prominent theme throughout the Bible. It would be best for you to go to a minister to discuss the topic in depth. why is jesus necesary to my salvation? what am i being saved from? i know the theory,that only god and christ are perfect, and only by them can my sins be forgiven...but i feel like agood many people more than paythe price here on earth. and what exactly isthe definition of perfection? |
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Edited by
SkyHook5652
on
Wed 10/22/08 09:49 PM
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:sniff: Hey, I didn't light it, I just fanned it a little. :sniff: :sniff: Is someone burning Sarcasm incense in here? <pointing at quite> He started it!  But you gotta admit that the "1000 lb Gorrila effect" would have to apply. If an omnipotent being says to jump, you're much better of you asking "How high?" - on the way up - than arguing with him.   |
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an omnipotent being that we love him sufficent reason for getting into heaven? cause he said so? well theres a good reason for that. let me know when he says to slaughter innocent children so i can do that too |
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an omnipotent being that we love him sufficent reason for getting into heaven? cause he said so? well theres a good reason for that. let me know when he says to slaughter innocent children so i can do that too If you don't like what the Mediterranean Mythologists did to God you might want to look into Wicca. There are some pretty nice books on the topic by Scott Cunningham. I'm not saying that it would necessarily be right for you, but I personally find it to be a very loving and positive relationship with God. How much you want to deify God is up to you. The main thrust of the Wicca vision of God is that She and He are both the creator and pervader of all that exists. And since God is the creator Her main desire is to help you to be creative. She works with you as a friend not an enemy. And He provides all the necessary tools and power that you need to manifest the positive creative things in your life that will make the world a better place for everyone. I personally feel that the religion is extremely intelligent, romantic, emotionally sound, and most of all productive. You might feel silly sweeping away negative energy with a magick broom for a while, but after you begin to realize that it actually works it finally dawns on you that God was friendly all along and it was just the male-chauvinist Mediterranean pigs who were the jerks. |
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an omnipotent being that we love him sufficent reason for getting into heaven? cause he said so? well theres a good reason for that. let me know when he says to slaughter innocent children so i can do that too I would have to refer you to Abraham for that |
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an omnipotent being that we love him sufficent reason for getting into heaven? cause he said so? well theres a good reason for that. let me know when he says to slaughter innocent children so i can do that too If you don't like what the Mediterranean Mythologists did to God you might want to look into Wicca. There are some pretty nice books on the topic by Scott Cunningham. I'm not saying that it would necessarily be right for you, but I personally find it to be a very loving and positive relationship with God. How much you want to deify God is up to you. The main thrust of the Wicca vision of God is that She and He are both the creator and pervader of all that exists. And since God is the creator Her main desire is to help you to be creative. She works with you as a friend not an enemy. And He provides all the necessary tools and power that you need to manifest the positive creative things in your life that will make the world a better place for everyone. I personally feel that the religion is extremely intelligent, romantic, emotionally sound, and most of all productive. You might feel silly sweeping away negative energy with a magick broom for a while, but after you begin to realize that it actually works it finally dawns on you that God was friendly all along and it was just the male-chauvinist Mediterranean pigs who were the jerks. haha thankyoy i have actually been looking into wicca. it seems to me to be one of the best religions... its more friendly. =] thank you for all your kind words. and sharing your intellignce as well...somehow its not as abundant as i once thought |
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an omnipotent being that we love him sufficent reason for getting into heaven? cause he said so? well theres a good reason for that. let me know when he says to slaughter innocent children so i can do that too I would have to refer you to Abraham for that <sigh> |
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why is jesus necesary to my salvation? what am i being saved from? i know the theory,that only god and christ are perfect, and only by them can my sins be forgiven...but i feel like agood many people more than paythe price here on earth. and what exactly isthe definition of perfection? God is only going to allow the sinless to enter heaven, because those who have sinned don't deserve to live in daily communion with the creator of the universe. Every sin ties you to death. No matter how hard you have tried to be good, it cannot make up for your sins. Why should one violation of the law be forgiven because you haven't violated that law again? Jesus hasn't offered to just forgive your sins, because God decided that every sin must be punished. Jesus is taking every one of your sins onto himself and suffering for them. Jesus can only do this, because he's perfect. Jesus doesn't think evil or commit any sins. Think of it like this: You can't clean a dirty shirt in muddy water, just like a person with sins cannot wash their own sins away. The only way for your sins to be forgiven is for Jesus to take the punishment for you. |
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an omnipotent being that we love him sufficent reason for getting into heaven? cause he said so? well theres a good reason for that. let me know when he says to slaughter innocent children so i can do that too Ohhhhkay.... So you aren't really here to have your questions answered, you have already made up your mind? It would have been a breath of fresh air to see someone asking questions about Christianity with and open mind and heart, but I don't believe you have either. I wish you well, but our conversation must end here. |
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Edited by
Jeanniebean
on
Thu 10/23/08 07:51 AM
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why is jesus necesary to my salvation? what am i being saved from? i know the theory,that only god and christ are perfect, and only by them can my sins be forgiven...but i feel like agood many people more than paythe price here on earth. and what exactly isthe definition of perfection? God is only going to allow the sinless to enter heaven, because those who have sinned don't deserve to live in daily communion with the creator of the universe. Every sin ties you to death. No matter how hard you have tried to be good, it cannot make up for your sins. Why should one violation of the law be forgiven because you haven't violated that law again? Jesus hasn't offered to just forgive your sins, because God decided that every sin must be punished. Jesus is taking every one of your sins onto himself and suffering for them. Jesus can only do this, because he's perfect. Jesus doesn't think evil or commit any sins. Think of it like this: You can't clean a dirty shirt in muddy water, just like a person with sins cannot wash their own sins away. The only way for your sins to be forgiven is for Jesus to take the punishment for you. Spider, 1.)How can being forgiven from your sins make you "sinless?" 2.)How can you feel good about yourself for allowing Jesus to take your sins onto himself and suffer for them? Are you not mature enough to take responsibility? 3.) If Jesus takes everyone's sins upon himself then he is NOT without sin. It does not make any logical sense that the only way for sins to be "forgiven" is for Jesus to take the punishment for the sinner. That is not logical. I think I know what forgiveness and repentance is about and it has nothing to do with letting someone else take the punishment for your sins. If anything, that is like an over protective parent who takes the blame for the crimes of his child. The child will not learn anything from that. A person who repents and learns a lesson from his acts (sins) and forgives himself and vows to change and not repeat his acts is at that moment righteous and without sin. A person who pays for his crimes and takes full responsibility for them and is truly repentant of them is a new person and washed clean of all "sins." At that moment they are righteous and without sin. There is no need for a savior if a person repents, learns a lesson and forgives and takes responsibility for his or her own sin or acts. Today humanity is hopefully aware enough to know right from wrong and to take responsibility for their acts and correct them. People who think they can lead a life of sin, be forgiven by a savior and then be saved and go to heaven are like people who lead an unhealthy lifestyle smoking, drinking, eating the wrong foods, thinking negative thoughts and neglecting their health then they go to a doctor (their savior) and demand a pill to cure them. One pill is not going to cure a lifetime of unhealthy habits. Yet most people expect the magic pill that will cure all of their ills. Jesus is the magic pill for spiritually bankrupt and immature people who believe they have lead lives of sin and cannot or will not face up to the consequences. They seek the magic pill to wash them clean and erase their past and make them feel better about themselves. Not wonder there are so many people who fall into this trap of Christianity. They think they have found their magic pill that will save them the trouble of taking full responsibility for there acts. JB |
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why is jesus necesary to my salvation? what am i being saved from? i know the theory,that only god and christ are perfect, and only by them can my sins be forgiven...but i feel like agood many people more than paythe price here on earth. and what exactly isthe definition of perfection? God is only going to allow the sinless to enter heaven, because those who have sinned don't deserve to live in daily communion with the creator of the universe. Every sin ties you to death. No matter how hard you have tried to be good, it cannot make up for your sins. Why should one violation of the law be forgiven because you haven't violated that law again? Jesus hasn't offered to just forgive your sins, because God decided that every sin must be punished. Jesus is taking every one of your sins onto himself and suffering for them. Jesus can only do this, because he's perfect. Jesus doesn't think evil or commit any sins. Think of it like this: You can't clean a dirty shirt in muddy water, just like a person with sins cannot wash their own sins away. The only way for your sins to be forgiven is for Jesus to take the punishment for you. Where there is no sin this becomes a moot point. If there was sin I would not want another to be punished for it... I believe in personal responsibility. |
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It's funny that both JB and AB make the same claim, that Christians don't take responsibility for their own actions. At the same time, I'm sure AB and others here would claim they are sinless. It's no accident that they both make the same false claim, it's simply an attempt to make Christians look weak and foolish.
The Bible has a strict code of law, which lists out 613 sins. To be saved, the Christian must accept responsibility for every time he or she has broken one of those laws. In reality, Christians must accept the responsibility for committing 614 different types of sin. The 614th sin is that we caused God to have to suffer and die for our sins. Our creator had to die, because we are so flawed that we choose to sin when he has given us the choice. We must also be humble, by admitting that while we have the capacity to sin, we do not have the ability to erase those sins. We must accept that we are weak and fallible and so we have to depend upon God for salvation from our own sins. Jesus has already paid the price for all sins, out of love for us. If you choose to not accept Jesus' sacrifice, you aren't doing anything noble. On the contrary, you are rejecting the greatest gift your creator can give to you. You are denying your creator's superiority to you, by claiming that you can do what he says only he can do. |
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an omnipotent being that we love him sufficent reason for getting into heaven? It's not. It's more than that actually. 
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It's funny that both JB and AB make the same claim, that Christians don't take responsibility for their own actions. At the same time, I'm sure AB and others here would claim they are sinless. It's no accident that they both make the same false claim, it's simply an attempt to make Christians look weak and foolish. The Bible has a strict code of law, which lists out 613 sins. To be saved, the Christian must accept responsibility for every time he or she has broken one of those laws. In reality, Christians must accept the responsibility for committing 614 different types of sin. The 614th sin is that we caused God to have to suffer and die for our sins. Our creator had to die, because we are so flawed that we choose to sin when he has given us the choice. We must also be humble, by admitting that while we have the capacity to sin, we do not have the ability to erase those sins. We must accept that we are weak and fallible and so we have to depend upon God for salvation from our own sins. Jesus has already paid the price for all sins, out of love for us. If you choose to not accept Jesus' sacrifice, you aren't doing anything noble. On the contrary, you are rejecting the greatest gift your creator can give to you. You are denying your creator's superiority to you, by claiming that you can do what he says only he can do. I made no such claim... I stated MY belief in personal responsibility... What you or other christians believe I have no knowledge(I have found your personal as stated beliefs to be far from most christians I know). As far as great gifts... I have received the gift of life and the breath of the holy spirit form the source of all things... What could be greater? As far as sins go... I do not hold with the fear based sins listed in your book... We must accept that we are weak ONLY if we accept the man made god you worship... I chose to accept only that which is... |
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It's funny that both JB and AB make the same claim, that Christians don't take responsibility for their own actions. At the same time, I'm sure AB and others here would claim they are sinless. It's no accident that they both make the same false claim, it's simply an attempt to make Christians look weak and foolish. The Bible has a strict code of law, which lists out 613 sins. To be saved, the Christian must accept responsibility for every time he or she has broken one of those laws. In reality, Christians must accept the responsibility for committing 614 different types of sin. The 614th sin is that we caused God to have to suffer and die for our sins. Our creator had to die, because we are so flawed that we choose to sin when he has given us the choice. We must also be humble, by admitting that while we have the capacity to sin, we do not have the ability to erase those sins. We must accept that we are weak and fallible and so we have to depend upon God for salvation from our own sins. Jesus has already paid the price for all sins, out of love for us. If you choose to not accept Jesus' sacrifice, you aren't doing anything noble. On the contrary, you are rejecting the greatest gift your creator can give to you. You are denying your creator's superiority to you, by claiming that you can do what he says only he can do. I made no such claim... I stated MY belief in personal responsibility... What you or other christians believe I have no knowledge(I have found your personal as stated beliefs to be far from most christians I know). As far as great gifts... I have received the gift of life and the breath of the holy spirit form the source of all things... What could be greater? As far as sins go... I do not hold with the fear based sins listed in your book... We must accept that we are weak ONLY if we accept the man made god you worship... I chose to accept only that which is... AB, Did it ever occur to you that you don't know what I believe? That you only know the strawman fallacies that you construct when trying to attack me? And the truth is, you don't know God or what the Bible teaches. You reveal this time after time. You are like any other human, you want to know the truth. Let go of this world and tell Jesus you are willing to accept him without any strings. Open the Bible and read without bias or fear, you will quickly realize that the book in your hands isn't the one you thought you picked up. |
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Edited by
Jeanniebean
on
Thu 10/23/08 10:31 AM
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It's funny that both JB and AB make the same claim, that Christians don't take responsibility for their own actions. At the same time, I'm sure AB and others here would claim they are sinless. It's no accident that they both make the same false claim, it's simply an attempt to make Christians look weak and foolish. The Bible has a strict code of law, which lists out 613 sins. To be saved, the Christian must accept responsibility for every time he or she has broken one of those laws. In reality, Christians must accept the responsibility for committing 614 different types of sin. The 614th sin is that we caused God to have to suffer and die for our sins. Our creator had to die, because we are so flawed that we choose to sin when he has given us the choice. We must also be humble, by admitting that while we have the capacity to sin, we do not have the ability to erase those sins. We must accept that we are weak and fallible and so we have to depend upon God for salvation from our own sins. Jesus has already paid the price for all sins, out of love for us. If you choose to not accept Jesus' sacrifice, you aren't doing anything noble. On the contrary, you are rejecting the greatest gift your creator can give to you. You are denying your creator's superiority to you, by claiming that you can do what he says only he can do. If you want to believe this that is your choice Spider. I am just saying that it is an untruth. I will not claim to be "sinless" because the word "sin" and "sinless" are terms which are confined within religious dogma and doctrine of which I am not a part. Therefore I do not use those terms except to communicate within that dogma or doctrine to one who understands those words. Therefore the word 'sin" to me, is meaningless and a moot point. If you adhere to the idea of "free will" then you cannot have laws. They must be suggestions. They cannot be laws. Otherwise, if you call them "laws" then you do not adhere to the idea of free will because you have demanded, by the punishment of death, that the laws be obeyed. You can claim that the free will involves a choice to obey the laws or not, but that is not what free will is all about. Free will is just THE WILL. It is always free spider. The law of cause and effect, the law of Karma is automatic and it holds and distributes the "punishment" for all actions. A savior is not needed. Edit: A savior is not needed except within the confines of the doctrine that demands obedience and holds a punishment of death within that doctrine. In other words, if you adhere to the doctrine and have placed your authority into the hands of this dogma, then you probably need a savior to protect you from the one (God the father) who made the laws and named the punishment) That is the truth as I see it. JB |
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It's funny that both JB and AB make the same claim, that Christians don't take responsibility for their own actions. At the same time, I'm sure AB and others here would claim they are sinless. It's no accident that they both make the same false claim, it's simply an attempt to make Christians look weak and foolish. The Bible has a strict code of law, which lists out 613 sins. To be saved, the Christian must accept responsibility for every time he or she has broken one of those laws. In reality, Christians must accept the responsibility for committing 614 different types of sin. The 614th sin is that we caused God to have to suffer and die for our sins. Our creator had to die, because we are so flawed that we choose to sin when he has given us the choice. We must also be humble, by admitting that while we have the capacity to sin, we do not have the ability to erase those sins. We must accept that we are weak and fallible and so we have to depend upon God for salvation from our own sins. Jesus has already paid the price for all sins, out of love for us. If you choose to not accept Jesus' sacrifice, you aren't doing anything noble. On the contrary, you are rejecting the greatest gift your creator can give to you. You are denying your creator's superiority to you, by claiming that you can do what he says only he can do. I made no such claim... I stated MY belief in personal responsibility... What you or other christians believe I have no knowledge(I have found your personal as stated beliefs to be far from most christians I know). As far as great gifts... I have received the gift of life and the breath of the holy spirit form the source of all things... What could be greater? As far as sins go... I do not hold with the fear based sins listed in your book... We must accept that we are weak ONLY if we accept the man made god you worship... I chose to accept only that which is... AB, Did it ever occur to you that you don't know what I believe? That you only know the strawman fallacies that you construct when trying to attack me? And the truth is, you don't know God or what the Bible teaches. You reveal this time after time. You are like any other human, you want to know the truth. Let go of this world and tell Jesus you are willing to accept him without any strings. Open the Bible and read without bias or fear, you will quickly realize that the book in your hands isn't the one you thought you picked up. I have not claimed to know what you believe nor have I attacked you... this is something you have claimed over and over when I write something you can't refute. (that I have attacked you). I did mention your STATED beliefs these are all I have to go by... I live my faith every day. My life is good... How then can I be constructing 'strawman fallacies'? When life is good it is so for a reason... my faith tells me that my life is good because I live it. Why then seek anything else... I am provide that which I need. and in addendum... Which version of the bible do you suggest I pick up. (God has no version only that which is) |
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It's funny that both JB and AB make the same claim, that Christians don't take responsibility for their own actions. At the same time, I'm sure AB and others here would claim they are sinless. It's no accident that they both make the same false claim, it's simply an attempt to make Christians look weak and foolish. The Bible has a strict code of law, which lists out 613 sins. To be saved, the Christian must accept responsibility for every time he or she has broken one of those laws. In reality, Christians must accept the responsibility for committing 614 different types of sin. The 614th sin is that we caused God to have to suffer and die for our sins. Our creator had to die, because we are so flawed that we choose to sin when he has given us the choice. We must also be humble, by admitting that while we have the capacity to sin, we do not have the ability to erase those sins. We must accept that we are weak and fallible and so we have to depend upon God for salvation from our own sins. Jesus has already paid the price for all sins, out of love for us. If you choose to not accept Jesus' sacrifice, you aren't doing anything noble. On the contrary, you are rejecting the greatest gift your creator can give to you. You are denying your creator's superiority to you, by claiming that you can do what he says only he can do. If you want to believe this that is your choice Spider. I am just saying that it is an untruth. I will not claim to be "sinless" because the word "sin" and "sinless" are terms which are confined within religious dogma and doctrine of which I am not a part. Therefore I do not use those terms except to communicate within that dogma or doctrine to one who understands those words. Therefore the word 'sin" to me, is meaningless and a moot point. If you adhere to the idea of "free will" then you cannot have laws. They must be suggestions. They cannot be laws. Otherwise, if you call them "laws" then you do not adhere to the idea of free will because you have demanded, by the punishment of death, that the laws be obeyed. You can claim that the free will involves a choice to obey the laws or not, but that is not what free will is all about. Free will is just THE WILL. It is always free spider. The law of cause and effect, the law of Karma is automatic and it holds and distributes the "punishment" for all actions. A savior is not needed. Edit: A savior is not needed except within the confines of the doctrine that demands obedience and holds a punishment of death within that doctrine. In other words, if you adhere to the doctrine and have placed your authority into the hands of this dogma, then you probably need a savior to protect you from the one (God the father) who made the laws and named the punishment) That is the truth as I see it. JB Your point is specious. It's a crime to break the speed limit, but you are still allowed to choose to do so. In the same way, God's laws are there and you have the free will to choose to obey or disobey them. |
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