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Topic: why is telling
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Thu 10/23/08 10:48 AM




It's funny that both JB and AB make the same claim, that Christians don't take responsibility for their own actions. At the same time, I'm sure AB and others here would claim they are sinless. It's no accident that they both make the same false claim, it's simply an attempt to make Christians look weak and foolish.

The Bible has a strict code of law, which lists out 613 sins. To be saved, the Christian must accept responsibility for every time he or she has broken one of those laws. In reality, Christians must accept the responsibility for committing 614 different types of sin. The 614th sin is that we caused God to have to suffer and die for our sins. Our creator had to die, because we are so flawed that we choose to sin when he has given us the choice. We must also be humble, by admitting that while we have the capacity to sin, we do not have the ability to erase those sins. We must accept that we are weak and fallible and so we have to depend upon God for salvation from our own sins.

Jesus has already paid the price for all sins, out of love for us. If you choose to not accept Jesus' sacrifice, you aren't doing anything noble. On the contrary, you are rejecting the greatest gift your creator can give to you. You are denying your creator's superiority to you, by claiming that you can do what he says only he can do.

I made no such claim... I stated MY belief in personal responsibility... What you or other christians believe I have no knowledge(I have found your personal as stated beliefs to be far from most christians I know).
As far as great gifts... I have received the gift of life and the breath of the holy spirit form the source of all things... What could be greater?
As far as sins go... I do not hold with the fear based sins listed in your book... We must accept that we are weak ONLY if we accept the man made god you worship... I chose to accept only that which is...


AB,

Did it ever occur to you that you don't know what I believe? That you only know the strawman fallacies that you construct when trying to attack me? And the truth is, you don't know God or what the Bible teaches. You reveal this time after time. You are like any other human, you want to know the truth. Let go of this world and tell Jesus you are willing to accept him without any strings. Open the Bible and read without bias or fear, you will quickly realize that the book in your hands isn't the one you thought you picked up.

I have not claimed to know what you believe nor have I attacked you... this is something you have claimed over and over when I write something you can't refute. (that I have attacked you).

I did mention your STATED beliefs these are all I have to go by...
I live my faith every day. My life is good... How then can I be constructing 'strawman fallacies'? When life is good it is so for a reason... my faith tells me that my life is good because I live it.

Why then seek anything else... I am provide that which I need.

and in addendum... Which version of the bible do you suggest I pick up. (God has no version only that which is)


AB, you ignore a great deal of what I post so that you can twist a little bit and make a response. That is how you construct strawman fallacies. You aren't responding to what I have STATED (as you say) you are responding to what you WANT me to have stated. Sorry, but that doesn't fly with me.

Your faith and life have nothing to do with you constructing strawman fallacies. Perhaps you should look up the term so you understand my point.

I have some beliefs that differ from the majority of Christians, but not many. Can you name them? Do the Christians you know reject the necessity of Jesus to salvation? If so, then you don't know any Christians.

no photo
Thu 10/23/08 10:50 AM
Edited by Jeanniebean on Thu 10/23/08 10:51 AM



It's funny that both JB and AB make the same claim, that Christians don't take responsibility for their own actions. At the same time, I'm sure AB and others here would claim they are sinless. It's no accident that they both make the same false claim, it's simply an attempt to make Christians look weak and foolish.

The Bible has a strict code of law, which lists out 613 sins. To be saved, the Christian must accept responsibility for every time he or she has broken one of those laws. In reality, Christians must accept the responsibility for committing 614 different types of sin. The 614th sin is that we caused God to have to suffer and die for our sins. Our creator had to die, because we are so flawed that we choose to sin when he has given us the choice. We must also be humble, by admitting that while we have the capacity to sin, we do not have the ability to erase those sins. We must accept that we are weak and fallible and so we have to depend upon God for salvation from our own sins.

Jesus has already paid the price for all sins, out of love for us. If you choose to not accept Jesus' sacrifice, you aren't doing anything noble. On the contrary, you are rejecting the greatest gift your creator can give to you. You are denying your creator's superiority to you, by claiming that you can do what he says only he can do.


If you want to believe this that is your choice Spider. I am just saying that it is an untruth.

I will not claim to be "sinless" because the word "sin" and "sinless" are terms which are confined within religious dogma and doctrine of which I am not a part. Therefore I do not use those terms except to communicate within that dogma or doctrine to one who understands those words.

Therefore the word 'sin" to me, is meaningless and a moot point.

If you adhere to the idea of "free will" then you cannot have laws. They must be suggestions. They cannot be laws.

Otherwise, if you call them "laws" then you do not adhere to the idea of free will because you have demanded, by the punishment of death, that the laws be obeyed.

You can claim that the free will involves a choice to obey the laws or not, but that is not what free will is all about. Free will is just THE WILL. It is always free spider.

The law of cause and effect, the law of Karma is automatic and it holds and distributes the "punishment" for all actions. A savior is not needed.

Edit: A savior is not needed except within the confines of the doctrine that demands obedience and holds a punishment of death within that doctrine. In other words, if you adhere to the doctrine and have placed your authority into the hands of this dogma, then you probably need a savior to protect you from the one (God the father) who made the laws and named the punishment)

That is the truth as I see it.

JB







Your point is specious.

It's a crime to break the speed limit, but you are still allowed to choose to do so.

In the same way, God's laws are there and you have the free will to choose to obey or disobey them.


It is not a crime to break the speed limit.

It is a violation of a statute. Restitution is accomplished by paying a fine.

Speed limits are not laws they are statutes. Sure most people are under the false impression that they are laws but they are not.

There is also not a punishment of death for breaking petty statutes.

There is also not a law that state anyone who breaks any petty statute shall be pay with their life.

JB

no photo
Thu 10/23/08 10:56 AM
Edited by Spidercmb on Thu 10/23/08 10:56 AM

It is not a crime to break the speed limit.


Um...yes, it is.

http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/4511.21

(C) It is prima-facie unlawful for any person to exceed any of the speed limitations in divisions (B)(1)(a), (2), (3), (4), (6), (7), and (8) of this section, or any declared pursuant to this section by the director or local authorities and it is unlawful for any person to exceed any of the speed limitations in division (D) of this section. No person shall be convicted of more than one violation of this section for the same conduct, although violations of more than one provision of this section may be charged in the alternative in a single affidavit.


If some action is unlawful, then doing so is what...that's right boys and girls a crime.


It is a violation of a statute. Restitution is accomplished by paying a fine.

Speed limits are not laws they are statutes. Sure most people are under the false impression that they are laws but they are not.


BS. You should know by now that BS doesn't go over well with me.

no photo
Thu 10/23/08 11:00 AM


It is not a crime to break the speed limit.


Um...yes, it is.

http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/4511.21

(C) It is prima-facie unlawful for any person to exceed any of the speed limitations in divisions (B)(1)(a), (2), (3), (4), (6), (7), and (8) of this section, or any declared pursuant to this section by the director or local authorities and it is unlawful for any person to exceed any of the speed limitations in division (D) of this section. No person shall be convicted of more than one violation of this section for the same conduct, although violations of more than one provision of this section may be charged in the alternative in a single affidavit.


If some action is unlawful, then doing so is what...that's right boys and girls a crime.


It is a violation of a statute. Restitution is accomplished by paying a fine.

Speed limits are not laws they are statutes. Sure most people are under the false impression that they are laws but they are not.


BS. You should know by now that BS doesn't go over well with me.



Again, I will tell you that they are not laws. They are statutes. I don't expect you to believe me, you are like most Americans. You don't realize that the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA is a corporation not a country.

America is a country, but the United States of America is a corporation and it is bankrupt.

The constitution no longer applies to you if you claim to be a United States Citizen. All so-called laws are statutes. They are not laws.

I don't expect you to understand, very few people do.
Oh well.

JB

no photo
Thu 10/23/08 11:36 AM
"""1.)How can being forgiven from your sins make you sinless """
It doesn't only Christ can. The SIN is the choice in ones actions that disobeys GOD; as he has ten commandments to follow. (5 to love and respect and honor him above all things or people; 5 to respect and love and honor each other)
In heaven their is a book that a persons sins are ecorded in for all time; so unless that person has accepted his gift of salvation, for which these recorded sins are to then be wiped away and forgiven and never remembered again; these sins will be the evidence to prove worthiness of eternal damnation of each and every one of those souls on judgment day where, every knee shall bow down to acknowledge GOD for whom he is - the Creator, the One and Only true GOD of all existence and of all matter and of all light and of all dark, and every tongue will confess before GOD that CHRIST is Lord of Lords.


"""2.)How can you feel good about yourself for allowing Jesus to take your sins onto himself and suffer for them? Are you not mature enough to take responsibility?"""
To humble ones self, to deny ones desires and temptations, and to accept that we are truly so very small, and so very fortunate to have a GOD that by his gift and great love for his creation that he had made plans long before the earth was even created to eliminate not only Satan and evil from the heavens, but that th ere is away that every soul could repent and have a bridge to walk back to GOD - their heavenly father, so that each one whom accepts the gift of CHRIST and repents may live in peace for all eternity, rather than be in damnation and bondage and imprisoned. Feel grateful and truly blessed and very fortunate and very thankful and very grateful, and very ashamed and sad and undeserving my brother Christ by his choice did this sacrifice and died as a human and suffered so so very much for, so so many. And that he defeated Satan and death(which Satan knows he can not ever do)after three days and physically arose, alive and well, to meet with the his earthly family and disciples and was seen by over 500 witnesses, before ascending back to heaven.



"""3.) If Jesus takes everyone's sins upon himself then he is NOT without sin."""

CHRIST; He was a perfect man (born of the Holly Spirit - in perfection) whereas we are sinful men! (we have not obeyed GOD)
He was perfectly righteous and holy and sinless! He was the one exception to Romans 3:10 (none of us are righteous, but He was!). He was the one exception to Romans 3:12 (none of us are good, but He was!). He was the one exception to Romans 3:23 (none of us are sinless but He was!)

For as in Adam all die, due to Sin, (so) even so in Christ shall all be made alive for eternity.

Know that there are two natures in man: the physical nature and the spiritual nature. The physical nature is inherited from Adam, and the spiritual nature is inherited from the Reality of the Word of God, which is the spirituality of Christ. The physical nature is born of Adam, but the spiritual nature is born from the bounty of the Holy Spirit. The first is the source of all imperfection; the second is the source of all perfection.

In simplest terms, This is why He says: “I am the
bread which descended from heaven; whosoever shall eat of this bread will not die” that is to say, that whosoever shall partake of this divine food will attain unto he eternal life: that is, every one who partakes of this bounty and
receives these perfections will find eternal life, will obtain pre-existent favors, will 'be freed' from the 'darkness of their errors', and will be illuminated by the light of and by His guidance forever.

He took upon himself the sins of this world and was punished, took the punishment, and felt the punishment, and suffered under this punishment and died; dead and was buried, and went to Hades and preached to the souls of the underworld and after three days, since his / those sins were washed clean, he was cleansed, threw the sacrifice and punishment and suffering, he arose to live for all eternity and was given by GOD the earned right to be King of the Whole Universe over everything and every one.


Lean not to your own understanding but allow the Holy Spirit to fill you and to make room for perfection to give u the truth and wisdom and understanding of GOD.


GODS Law of Rule and Punishment, being your own self judge makes you a GOD or Goddess and one can sorta act in those ways the truth is the Creator still has his rule of law and punishment in the Universe.


Sin against your self is not equal in its very existence as SINing against GOD. So one can pretend to excuse themselves, but it doesn't hold water. Its a whole different level than say oh i screwed up, well im not going to do that again and ill just go buy a replacement and then itll be all done and i can go on with my life.. His rules, his commandments, his rule of law, we are the "created" not the creator. Like a child he is the FATHER, our free will to obey or not, humble ourselves and try to do better to be disciplined and stop sinning and thus repent, and accept that our big brother stepped in to talk with FATHER and got us off the HOOK because he loves us so much, he choose to take the pain so we wont get punished and can live in harmony in the heavens with Holiness and purity of heart, once he excuses our sins.

Isnt it so sad HUMANITY is at the BRINK OF EXTINCTION from Nuclear HOLOCAUST, so many continue to be arrogant, self righteous, egotistical, self appointed, self indulging, blasphemous beings. GOD sent the flood destroyed every living creature and GOD can create it again, but his plan of salvation will work just fine.


no photo
Thu 10/23/08 11:39 AM



It is not a crime to break the speed limit.


Um...yes, it is.

http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/4511.21

(C) It is prima-facie unlawful for any person to exceed any of the speed limitations in divisions (B)(1)(a), (2), (3), (4), (6), (7), and (8) of this section, or any declared pursuant to this section by the director or local authorities and it is unlawful for any person to exceed any of the speed limitations in division (D) of this section. No person shall be convicted of more than one violation of this section for the same conduct, although violations of more than one provision of this section may be charged in the alternative in a single affidavit.


If some action is unlawful, then doing so is what...that's right boys and girls a crime.


It is a violation of a statute. Restitution is accomplished by paying a fine.

Speed limits are not laws they are statutes. Sure most people are under the false impression that they are laws but they are not.


BS. You should know by now that BS doesn't go over well with me.



Again, I will tell you that they are not laws. They are statutes. I don't expect you to believe me, you are like most Americans. You don't realize that the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA is a corporation not a country.

America is a country, but the United States of America is a corporation and it is bankrupt.

The constitution no longer applies to you if you claim to be a United States Citizen. All so-called laws are statutes. They are not laws.

I don't expect you to understand, very few people do.
Oh well.

JB


Okay JB. I wish you well.

There is a difference between a Statute and a Law.

A statute is the term given to laws produced by the legislative. A Law is the term given to laws in the common law (in other words, cases that have been ruled upon by the judicial).

To imagine that there is a huge difference or that the speed limit is a statue rather than a law (go to traffic court, you will see that the speed limit is a law) makes no sense.

In legal terms, the distinction is made as to the source of the law, but statute or common law, they are both valid.

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