Yes, I definitely would agree with that. "Harmony in all things" is a personal goal of mine. (Although I am egregiously lacking in the achievement thereof. )

(analogy incoming)

I think of the problem of "opposing goals" and SplendidLife's "all agendas" as being like team sports. Each team has opposing goals. Anythying that helps you win is "good". Anything that hinders you from winning is "bad". But those good and bad things only exist within the game. Outside of the game they are meaningless.

There can be four friends who go out to play basketball. They split up into a two-on-two game. They play rough and with full intention to win. But once the game is over, they are still friends. And in fact, they remained friends throughout the game, even though they were all trying their best to defeat the other team.

But here's where the real problem comes in.

If we take this to the level of professional sports, we can see huge amounts of animosity and prejudice based solely on where someone lives.

So the problem is not in playing the game, the problem is in identifying with the game.

In other words, if one thinks that there isnothing but the game, then one cannot but consider anything and everything that hinders his "winning of the game" to be bad. It is this inability to separate from the game that is the real cause of "insistence on being right".

Examples:

A person who believes that they will cease to exist if their team loses will be pretty fearful of their team losing and pretty adamant about doing whatever they can to get their team to win.

A person who believes they will cease to exist if their car stops running will be pretty fearful of their car stopping running and pretty adamant about keeping their car well maintained.

A person who believes they will cease to exist if their body stops running, will be pretty fearful of dying and adamant about staying alive.

Dang! Went off on a rant there.

Yes, having common goals (as the indians did) is crucial to harmony. And I personally favor harmony over disharmony - usually.

Sky what if the goal is like that of the natives to revere nature and family and spirit, with utmost respect to all and to what is best for the family [tribes] in all unselfishness? they really were brought up to share and not to consider anything really there own but only for there use as needed, for them this has worked for centuries.

Again i know they warred against each other and there definitely were agendas but even then you see them coming together to form the six nations and others doing the same, and it did get better for all and harmony reigned much more than dis-harmony, it may not be the perfect way but it so surpasses today's me me me generation agreed?

Y'see now that's where you're wrong.

Well, "judgemental” has a pretty negative connotation. What I had in mind when I used “judgment” was something more like “discernment” or “reasoning”, whereas “judgmental” implies something more like “intolerance”.

Toward our goals.

Yeah, that sounds pretty glib, but what other answer could there be? Give up all goals? Everyone have exactly the same goals? Both of those options only lead to ... well ... some kind of an “everything is the same as everything else” state that is a fairly concise description of what I, personally, would consider to be a totally meaningless existence.

usually?

book of truths:

34) Outside of keeping the body sound, competitive sports are an unnecessary and destructive force upon society. They build class divisions, false pride, false accomplishments, give false hope, and breed at the same time both success and failure of something that should not even play apart in a society that is already in decline and has no need to worship or idolize fleeting and meaningless achievements that in the long run will only matter to the present audience - that has raised the participants up to a level of worship that no one or thing deserves. A perfect example of why and what we are and why the people of this country as well as others are in the state and condition they are in.

SKY, did you mean by "usually" except for those times when outside forces try to disrupt the way of life, like invaders bent on taking away that life you have?

I'd have to reply to that by saying that It's not the sports that are the problem. It's identifying with the sport that is the problem.

If a fan identifies with a team to the point where he thinks that his well being is somehow diminished by "his team" losing, it's not the sport that is to blame. It's his own inability to separate himself from the game that is to blame.

Don't mistake the symptom for the cause.

Actually, it was more about playing a good game of B-Ball with my buds. What I had in mind was regarding personal choice. If given the choice, I will usually try to maintain harmony with my environment. But I also like to play basketball, so I play with friends and during that time, there may be some dishormoy. But in that case I choose to experience the disharmony. In the case of an attacker, I don't choose the disharmony. (Well...at least I'm not aware of choosing it. )

We could call it evaluative instead of judgmental, if you'd like.

That works for me. (Judgmental works as well just as long as any negative connotations are left out of the definition - which is really all I wanted to do.)

So I would say yes. As Humans we are meant to be evaluative (or discerning or reasoning or even discriminating or judgemental in a non-prejudiced sense). It is that capability for evaluation and judgement that has enabled all the great achievements of man. (And it is our blindness in the area of ethics that has made us simultaneously the most potentially dangerous and destructive factor in the survival of the entire planet.)

the inability to seperate oneself from the sport was a given, you and others maybe albe to do this to a degree, seeing it as i said as just good fun or fitness, but i was talking of organized sports if you read closely. and i gave credit for those who do it for fun or exercise also. out side of that i agree and its why it something in my bok of truths.

Yes, I understand that you were referring to organized sports and that that label would apply to anything from world-wide things like the Olympics, down to the intra-class games at a grade school. But I didn't realize that "the inability to separate oneself from the sport was a given". My only aim was to clarify that fact and how it related to the given scenario.

I realize we're going far afield of the OP, but I'm wondering if you feel that it is even possible to "cure" the root cause of the problem. That is, to actually rehabilitate one's ability to make that separation/differentiation at will?

how did the romans cure themselves of the arena sports?

I'm not a student of the Romans and I'm too lazy to do the research, so I'll just take a wild stab - complete collapse of the entire Roman empire?

If that's the case then we really need to come up with another plan!

Decpitation strikes me as a pretty poor cure for a headache.

Have you heard of Post-Decapitation Phantom Pain?

I may have had my head decapitated via a guillotine in a past life. I remember it because I had a very vivid dream about it.

There was a crowd of people watching the executions. The guillotine was standing next to a building. In front of it there was a small wall, looked like metal, that caught the head and prevented it from rolling out into the crowd. There was a metal ramp for the head to roll down.

I was asked if I had any last words. My last words were: "No, lets just get this over with." The horror of the scene was not one that I wanted to linger in.

The blade came down and hit the back of my neck. There was a very brief sharp pain. My head rolled down the plank. My conscious awareness remained with the head.

I was aware momentarily that my head was not attached to my body. I could still see out of my eyes. For a moment I wondered if and when I would die. I did not want to remain attached to a severed head.

Then I rose from the head and viewed the scene from above it and breathed a sigh of relief. I am free.

JB