Community > General Religion Chat

Topic: WHat exactly is the "Subconscious Mind"?
splendidlife Joined Fri 03/21/08 Posts: 1171	Tue 09/30/08 09:40 PM
This is an interesting topic which is sure to bring plenty of responses... To me... The subconscious mind is an always changing and fluid personal state of affairs. Everything of which I have been exposed, but am not thinking. All things past perceived and yet perhaps forgotten. Events and definitions of those such events which have been internalized as the foundation of my learning. Everything which I involuntatily feel, think, remember want and do without having to consciously think about it. Those things which affect my perceptual capabilities without my knowledge of them existing within me. That just about sums up my point of view... A necessary function of the body. Completely self contained. Yes... self contained and capable of opening up a much wider capacity to think and communicate.

ArtGurl Joined Sun 04/08/07 Posts: 17722	Tue 09/30/08 09:48 PM
What exactly is “the Subconscious Mind”? There seem to be various viewpoints on this. I’m wondering if it is possible to come to a consensus through discussion. Or maybe just a better understanding of differing individual viewpoints. To answer my own question, I view the subconscious as a strictly stimulus-response mechanism that responds directly to environmental stimuli and which controls the “instinctual” behavior. This is in contrast to the “conscious” mind, which is under the control and direction of “me” and which stores information and performs calculations. are you saying then that the brain stem (responsible for breathing and heartbeat) ... and the cerebellum (responsible for posture, movement, balance) and the limbic system (the emotional brain) are "subconscious mind" functions as these bodily functions happen without conscious thought for the most part? I would call them brain functions but do not think the mind is contained strictly within the brain.

creativesoul Joined Mon 04/16/07 Posts: 9166	Tue 09/30/08 09:48 PM
I prefer the term "unconscious" though, because the prefix sub implies beneath or less than... jmo

SkyHook5652 Joined Sat 08/23/08 Posts: 4063	Tue 09/30/08 09:51 PM
With all current Science/Psychology knowledge of the concept of the "Subconscious Mind" at our disposal via the web, its clear that we can systematically answer thousands of questions from the perspective of the physical Universe. The very foundation of science (the deterministic nature of the universe) means that the only questions that can be anserwed from the perspective of the physical universe are the purely stimulus-response phenomena. From that perspective, it is impossible for science to answer anything about self-determined causation. (Denying its existence doesn't answer anything.) I believe that there's another dimension to the Subconscious Mind that works in accord with all others, but adds the dimension of communication. Communication that, if fully tapped, could have our minds operating at Far Far closer to capacity, rather than 10 to 20 percent. If you're talking about communication being independent of the laws of nature/physics, then I would agree. Yes... I am talking about communication being independent of the "laws" of nature/physics. Check it out -> Now they're finding that the brain structure, the anterior cingulate cortex (ACC), operates figuring out things without necessarily having to be consciously aware of it (Like a 6th Sense). They believe they've isolated it to an area of the brain. Personally, I like to think of it as like antenna. http://www.five.tv/programmes/psychicchallenge/factsandtheories/ Ok, given that "the brain" is a purely simulus-response mechanism, just like the rest of the physical universe, and I postulated that the "subconscious mind" was also a stimulus-response mechanism, just like the rest of the physical universe, I will grant that the brain can be considered part of the subconscious mind. And there is no reason why that ACC couldn't be just as you said - an "antennae". So if I follow your logic correctly, then the ACC would be "tuned" to this "non-physical communication" somehow. Which means that the physical brain is capable of detecting the non-physical communication. Right?

splendidlife Joined Fri 03/21/08 Posts: 1171	Tue 09/30/08 09:56 PM
With all current Science/Psychology knowledge of the concept of the "Subconscious Mind" at our disposal via the web, its clear that we can systematically answer thousands of questions from the perspective of the physical Universe. The very foundation of science (the deterministic nature of the universe) means that the only questions that can be anserwed from the perspective of the physical universe are the purely stimulus-response phenomena. From that perspective, it is impossible for science to answer anything about self-determined causation. (Denying its existence doesn't answer anything.) I believe that there's another dimension to the Subconscious Mind that works in accord with all others, but adds the dimension of communication. Communication that, if fully tapped, could have our minds operating at Far Far closer to capacity, rather than 10 to 20 percent. If you're talking about communication being independent of the laws of nature/physics, then I would agree. Yes... I am talking about communication being independent of the "laws" of nature/physics. Check it out -> Now they're finding that the brain structure, the anterior cingulate cortex (ACC), operates figuring out things without necessarily having to be consciously aware of it (Like a 6th Sense). They believe they've isolated it to an area of the brain. Personally, I like to think of it as like antenna. http://www.five.tv/programmes/psychicchallenge/factsandtheories/ Ok, given that "the brain" is a purely simulus-response mechanism, just like the rest of the physical universe, and I postulated that the "subconscious mind" was also a stimulus-response mechanism, just like the rest of the physical universe, I will grant that the brain can be considered part of the subconscious mind. And there is no reason why that ACC couldn't be just as you said - an "antennae". So if I follow your logic correctly, then the ACC would be "tuned" to this "non-physical communication" somehow. Which means that the physical brain is capable of detecting the non-physical communication. Right? I used to think that it was completely separate from physical brain function. Now, I'm beginning to believe that it's quite possible that there could be an electro/chemical interface.

SkyHook5652 Joined Sat 08/23/08 Posts: 4063	Tue 09/30/08 10:04 PM Edited by SkyHook5652 on Tue 09/30/08 10:05 PM
With all current Science/Psychology knowledge of the concept of the "Subconscious Mind" at our disposal via the web, its clear that we can systematically answer thousands of questions from the perspective of the physical Universe. The very foundation of science (the deterministic nature of the universe) means that the only questions that can be anserwed from the perspective of the physical universe are the purely stimulus-response phenomena. From that perspective, it is impossible for science to answer anything about self-determined causation. (Denying its existence doesn't answer anything.) I believe that there's another dimension to the Subconscious Mind that works in accord with all others, but adds the dimension of communication. Communication that, if fully tapped, could have our minds operating at Far Far closer to capacity, rather than 10 to 20 percent. If you're talking about communication being independent of the laws of nature/physics, then I would agree. Yes... I am talking about communication being independent of the "laws" of nature/physics. Check it out -> Now they're finding that the brain structure, the anterior cingulate cortex (ACC), operates figuring out things without necessarily having to be consciously aware of it (Like a 6th Sense). They believe they've isolated it to an area of the brain. Personally, I like to think of it as like antenna. http://www.five.tv/programmes/psychicchallenge/factsandtheories/ Ok, given that "the brain" is a purely simulus-response mechanism, just like the rest of the physical universe, and I postulated that the "subconscious mind" was also a stimulus-response mechanism, just like the rest of the physical universe, I will grant that the brain can be considered part of the subconscious mind. And there is no reason why that ACC couldn't be just as you said - an "antennae". So if I follow your logic correctly, then the ACC would be "tuned" to this "non-physical communication" somehow. Which means that the physical brain is capable of detecting the non-physical communication. Right? I used to think that it was completely separate from physical brain function. Now, I'm beginning to believe that it's quite possible that there could be an electro/chemical interface. I don’t know what “it” refers to in your first sentence - the ACC or the “non-physical communication?” Both lead to confusing logic for me.

Scarlett_156 Joined Wed 09/17/08 Posts: 469	Tue 09/30/08 10:08 PM
I think the same can be said of the forces in our own private universes, i.e., our bodies and our minds. The term "subconscious" is a handy term but is misleading and incomplete in light of further knowledge. xoxoxo Without knowing what the “further knowledge” you’re referring to is, I cannot relate it to anything either of us has said. But I don’t think we’re too terribly far apart in our views. I too think of the brain and the mind as two very separate things. IMO the brain really has nothing to do with “mind” at all. At least not any more than does the heart or the liver or the appendix or the big toe. However I do believe there are intrinsic differences between 1) an autonomic response to a stimulus, 2) a reasoned evaluation, and 3) a self-determined decision. [edit: The entire purpose of this thread was to find out about any "further knowledge" that anyone else might have on the subject. Well, your question is: "What is the subconscious mind?" My initial answer I think was fairly succinct: To me there's only "mind". The only distinctions that exist for me are the various degrees of interaction and understanding between me and mind. I was not attempting to pinpoint a location for "mind" or ascribe it to a particular physical function. When one begins to learn meditation, one begins to apprehend the so-called CONSCIOUS mind as something much more wild and less definable than one had originally supposed. It's like a person standing on a shore, observing the surface of a lake, to use another totally lame analogy: We think of the surface as the known part, and the depth as the unknown, and possibly unknowable, part. But both surface and depth are equally knowable and unknowable to the observer on the shore. A guy who fishes from a boat may have another, more comprehensive perspective on the lake, and yet the surface and the depth are both known and unknowable to him as well. xoxo

splendidlife Joined Fri 03/21/08 Posts: 1171	Tue 09/30/08 10:14 PM
With all current Science/Psychology knowledge of the concept of the "Subconscious Mind" at our disposal via the web, its clear that we can systematically answer thousands of questions from the perspective of the physical Universe. The very foundation of science (the deterministic nature of the universe) means that the only questions that can be anserwed from the perspective of the physical universe are the purely stimulus-response phenomena. From that perspective, it is impossible for science to answer anything about self-determined causation. (Denying its existence doesn't answer anything.) I believe that there's another dimension to the Subconscious Mind that works in accord with all others, but adds the dimension of communication. Communication that, if fully tapped, could have our minds operating at Far Far closer to capacity, rather than 10 to 20 percent. If you're talking about communication being independent of the laws of nature/physics, then I would agree. Yes... I am talking about communication being independent of the "laws" of nature/physics. Check it out -> Now they're finding that the brain structure, the anterior cingulate cortex (ACC), operates figuring out things without necessarily having to be consciously aware of it (Like a 6th Sense). They believe they've isolated it to an area of the brain. Personally, I like to think of it as like antenna. http://www.five.tv/programmes/psychicchallenge/factsandtheories/ Ok, given that "the brain" is a purely simulus-response mechanism, just like the rest of the physical universe, and I postulated that the "subconscious mind" was also a stimulus-response mechanism, just like the rest of the physical universe, I will grant that the brain can be considered part of the subconscious mind. And there is no reason why that ACC couldn't be just as you said - an "antennae". So if I follow your logic correctly, then the ACC would be "tuned" to this "non-physical communication" somehow. Which means that the physical brain is capable of detecting the non-physical communication. Right? I used to think that it was completely separate from physical brain function. Now, I'm beginning to believe that it's quite possible that there could be an electro/chemical interface. I don’t know what “it” refers to in your first sentence - the ACC or the “non-physical communication?” Both lead to confusing logic for me. "It" refers to the Subconscious Mind.

SkyHook5652 Joined Sat 08/23/08 Posts: 4063	Tue 09/30/08 10:17 PM Edited by SkyHook5652 on Tue 09/30/08 10:18 PM
I think the same can be said of the forces in our own private universes, i.e., our bodies and our minds. The term "subconscious" is a handy term but is misleading and incomplete in light of further knowledge. xoxoxo Without knowing what the “further knowledge” you’re referring to is, I cannot relate it to anything either of us has said. But I don’t think we’re too terribly far apart in our views. I too think of the brain and the mind as two very separate things. IMO the brain really has nothing to do with “mind” at all. At least not any more than does the heart or the liver or the appendix or the big toe. However I do believe there are intrinsic differences between 1) an autonomic response to a stimulus, 2) a reasoned evaluation, and 3) a self-determined decision. [edit: The entire purpose of this thread was to find out about any "further knowledge" that anyone else might have on the subject. Well, your question is: "What is the subconscious mind?" My initial answer I think was fairly succinct: To me there's only "mind". The only distinctions that exist for me are the various degrees of interaction and understanding between me and mind. I was not attempting to pinpoint a location for "mind" or ascribe it to a particular physical function. When one begins to learn meditation, one begins to apprehend the so-called CONSCIOUS mind as something much more wild and less definable than one had originally supposed. It's like a person standing on a shore, observing the surface of a lake, to use another totally lame analogy: We think of the surface as the known part, and the depth as the unknown, and possibly unknowable, part. But both surface and depth are equally knowable and unknowable to the observer on the shore. A guy who fishes from a boat may have another, more comprehensive perspective on the lake, and yet the surface and the depth are both known and unknowable to him as well. xoxo Ok, fair enough. My next question would then go a bit off topic, but not too far, and since I started the thread I don’t feel like I’d be hijacking it. So in your view, what exactly is “mind” then. And, more importantly to me, what is its relationship to “I” (that is, if you make any differentiation between “mind” and “I”)

Jess642 Joined Sat 03/31/07 Posts: 22732	Thu 10/02/08 01:56 PM
A label used to contain everything unknown by silly scientists....that what subconscious means.... ..........if it is inexplicable it must be subconscious.

splendidlife Joined Fri 03/21/08 Posts: 1171	Thu 10/02/08 02:32 PM
A label used to contain everything unknown by silly scientists....that what subconscious means.... ..........if it is inexplicable it must be subconscious. The infinite possibility of all things intrinsic.