It's tan out of a box...all that burning brimstone!

Oh hey Lobotomy. You probably knew all this already but here is some of that Sumerian Creation Mythology the bible copped. This is pretty cool.

‘Enki and Ninhursag’ is perhaps one of the most difficult Mesopotamian myth for Judeo-Christian Westerners to understand, because it stands as the opposite of the myth of Adam and Eve in Paradise found in the Old Testament Bible. Indeed, ‘ the literature created by the Sumerians left its deep imprint on the Hebrews, and one of the thrilling aspects of reconstructing and translating Sumerian belles-lettres consists in tracing resemblances and parallels between Sumerian and Biblical motifs.

To be sure, Sumerians could not have influenced the Hebrews directly, for they had ceased to exist long before the Hebrew people came into existence. But there is little doubt that the Sumerians deeply influenced the Canaanites, who preceded the Hebrews in the land later known as Palestine’ Some comparisons with the Bible paradise story:

1) the idea of a divine paradise, the garden of gods, is of Sumerian origin, and it was Dilmun, the land of immortals situated in southwestern Persia. It is the same Dilmun that, later, the Babylonians, the Semitic people who conquered the Sumerians, located their home of the immortals. There is a good indication that the Biblical paradise, which is described as a garden planted eastward in Eden, from whose waters flow the four world rivers including the Tigris and the Euphrates, may have been originally identical with Dilmun;

2) the watering of Dilmun by Enki and the Sun god Utu with fresh water brought up from the earth is suggestive of the Biblical ‘ But there went up a mist from the earth and watered the whole face of the ground’ (Genesis 2:6);

3) the birth of goddesses without pain or travail illuminates the background of the curse against Eve that it shall be her lot to conceive and bear children in sorrow;

4) Enki’s greed to eat the eight sacred plants which gave birth to the Vegetal World resonates the eating of the Forbidden Fruit by Adam and Eve, and 6) most remarkably, this myth provides an explanation for one of the most puzzling motifs in the Biblical paradise story - the famous passage describing the fashioning of Eve, the mother of all living, from the rib of Adam. Why a rib instead of another organ to fashion the woman whose name Eve means according to the Bible, ‘she who makes live’? If we look at the Sumerian myth, we see that when Enki gets ill, cursed by Ninhursag, one of his body parts that start dying is the rib. The Sumerian word for rib is ‘ti’ . To heal each o Enki’s dying body parts, Ninhursag gives birth to eight goddesses. The goddess created for the healing of Enki’s rib is called ‘Nin-ti’, ‘the lady of the rib’. But the Sumerian word ‘ti’ also means ‘to make live’. The name ‘Nin-ti’ may therefore mean ‘the lady who makes live’ as well as ‘the lady of the rib’. Thus, a very ancient literary pun was carried over and perpetuated in the Bible, but without its original meaning, because the Hebrew word for ‘rib’ and that for ‘who makes live’ have nothing in common. Moreover, it is Ninhursag who gives her life essence to heal Enki, who is then reborn from her

Hey Krims...Yes, I was aware of most of that which you've stated. Also, the leading theory of the location for 'eden. is the persian gulf...the 4 rivers are ID'd as tirgis/euphr., and two DRY riverbeds which empty there, so it's location is underwater in the persian gulf. And the hebrew scource for their copying of sumerian tales?...They got it when they were slaves under babylon, released by Alexander the great to go back to palastine. ANd most books of the old testament found, are dated to this time period. I've always wonderred if their exposure to monotheism ( zorostrianism,to be exact) while there influenced their views of divinity.

Yeah it is not limited to one or two myths either but a substantial amount of their writings and motifs can be found much later depicted in the bible. Also there was a Sumerian King who's early life was nearly copied word for word in the story of Moses. The floating down the river in a basket etc... It would appear that its a good thing the Sumerians are gone. Long since extinguished by the Semitic peoples that would eventually conquer them and pass down their mythologies. Otherwise they might have a serious case for copyright infringement.

Oh so true. What we call mythology today, was the religeons of their day. So I call all religeons mythologies.

Right. I agree. All civilizations and all peoples in fact have a creation mythology. However the Christians dont like hearing that and take offense and become angry and irritated with comments of that nature. Yet, from a cultural anthropological standpoint, thats the truth.

ANd technically, it's the Hebrew myth the hold onto, and not an original one of their own!

The Hebrew Myth?

The Hebrew scriptures are the most reliable we have. Now if you want to call it mythology thats your choice. Me i have studied for a very long time. Yahweh tells me he will protect me. That is in a situation i did not plan to try and test him.
Then he lets things go.

The scriptures tell us we are in charge of this world. We know that 90% of our mind is not used. Just what is it for? Yahshua said that nothing was impossible with the faith of a mustard seed.

Our minds can do almost anything.With faith and Yahweh will intervene is some cases if need be.

He has intervened with me on many occassions. I have tried to run from what I know but circumstances always bring me back.



But seeing people healed in a week who had been given a death sentence is a sign. When the healing took place was probally when the girl was told she was well. It upset her greatly. she had hodginses disease and drs in Denver confirmed it. Then she was flown to El Paso Tx and they confirmed it. Then they told her they may beable to prolong her life if she went to San Antonio for some experimatal surgery which could take her life also.

before she went to San Antonio is when she was told she was well and nothing was wrong with her. Upset her a great deal.

Well when she got to San Antonio they took exrays and had all the ones from before and they could not believe what they saw. They did make a small inscition i believe to take a look inside for themselves. They sent her home with a clean bill of health and noone knew what to think. She lives in Mississippi now that was in 1981.

So when people tell me that Yahweh's word is a myth i just shake my head. He tells us to heal each other and it is done not like on TV at all. Thats a circus act. The real healings are not publisized. Yahweh does not need publisity. He just wants a loving Heart towards him. The doubt in this world is what brings in injustice as we see all around us. True Faith is Heard around the world.. Blessings..Miles

Miles no one is attacking your personal beliefs. However, I have to ask. Can you prove to me here and now that the Christian creation mythology is more credible than that of any other people's on the face of the planet? That is where the line is drawn from a cultural anthropological standpoint.

We are here that was then. No one can really prove anything from thousands of years ago what actually happened. We can dig up stuff and verify some writings but when it comes to creation which i believe the Angels basically destroyed the earth and i will even go so far as to say i believe maybe Atlantis was built by those Angels. Then the earth had to be redun for man and animal to live. It seems as sciece will say intellegent man showed up about 6000 years ago. If this be the case then it would show some factual belief in the story. I mean I believe it because I do not doubt the word. I do test the word and have found many inconsistancies which seem to of been delibertly put thier. Thats why the NT has to hold up to what the OT says. If it doesn't something is wrong. No I am not going to say I know with out a doubt. I was not thier. I have faith though that it happened the way it says.and the miracles I have witnessed with others and myself escaping sure Death tells me it is true.. Blessings of Shalom...Miles

Miles, I won't deny that what is determined as miracles do happen. Many unexplained occurances, all ove rthe world. The same story of healing you told, would be interpeted as done by jesus, if from a christian POV, or Allah if muslum, or (insert diety/religeon here) . SO who's to say who's right and who's wrong? Each will fall back upon whatever beliefs they are taught as their faith dictates. My personal views don't relate to any recognised religeon or cults, so I look at it from a different point of view. I don't deny others their collective faiths, it only pisses me off when they attempt to intrude on my version,as their truth is the only truth. Even when all evidence is to the contrary. REality cannot intrude on faith!...ROFL...So, yes, I see religeon as mythology.Belief is dangerous, because it's set in stone. I'd rather have ideas and learn.

Miles the bible is only at the most 3000 years old. The origin of modern Homo sapiens is not yet resolved. The oldest fossil evidence for anatomically modern humans is about 130000 years old in Africa. If you want to believe that angels exist or build cities, thats your choice, however it wont hold up under closer investigation Im afraid.

It is very likely that the land of Atlantis might already be a well-known place even in Plato's time: the island of Crete.

Crete is now a part of modern Greece and lies just south of Athens across part of the Mediterranean Sea. Before 1500 B.C. it was the seat of the Minoan Empire. The Minoans dominated the eastern Mediterranean with a powerful navy and probably extracted tribute from other surrounding nations. Archaeological excavations have shown that Minoan Crete was probably one of the most sophisticated cultures of its time. It had splendid architecture and art. A code of laws gave women equal legal status to men. Agriculture was highly developed and an extensive irrigation system existed.

Then, seemingly in a blink of an eye, the Minoan Civilization disappeared. Geological studies have shown that on an island we now know as Santorinas, located just ten miles to the north of Crete, a disaster occurred that was very capable of toppling the Minoan state.

Many of the details of the Atlantis story fit with what is now known about Crete. Women had a relatively high political status, both cultures were peaceful, and both enjoyed the unusual sport of ritualistic bullfighting (where an unarmed man wrestled and jumped over a bull).

Not everyone accepts the Minoan Crete theory of the story of Atlantis, but until a convincing case can be made for some other place, it, perhaps, remains science's best guess.

Miles you asked for substantial evidence of these pre-existing Goddess worshiping cultures. Here you go. The Minoan Snake Goddess. Hmm a snake? Interesting.

http://picard.montclair.edu/~landwebj/402/MinoanSnakeGoddess.jpg

I find some of the old mythology legends and stories of creation interesting and even the Bible that I read speaks of "Giants" in those days, "Men of great strength and of old" That fallen Angels bred with flesh women and gave birth to these Hybrids. These could have some connection to some of the older stories and writings. They were here, I believe these were in the first Earth age before the downfall and the creation account of Genesis.

"Some connection" Yeah. Ha!

interesting...but if the bible IS the creation, then that philosophy means there couldn't be anything prior!...
I do find such rationalizations interesting.....ridiculas, but interesting

I know. Thats just crazy talk that whole "young earth" thing that some very strict fundamentalist Christians buy into. Where do they think all of these artifacts came from exactly? They just think all of the radiocarbon dating is erroneous or that the entire scientific community is agenda driven to "discredit the bible." The bible does a good enough job discrediting itself and science and archeology doesnt care what people choose to believe in. It wont effect their research one way or another.

I believe it is the creation of This Earth age and that there was one before this one that accounts for the fossil records, giants in the land and such. Before Satans downfall, the Earth that existed in Gen1:1 before it "became" void and without form, it was not created that way. Many Angels, "left their place of Habitation" and came to earth, impregnating the daughters of men. This created the Hybrids, the Giants and un natural offspring in the days of old. Not commonly taught that way, but i'm comfortable with it.

You are going to get stoned for that Sharp. That sounds like a weird Pagan suedo sexual psychobabble homogenization with Christianity. That wont fly with "them".

ACtually, sounds more like what the pagans first accepted when 'converted' to christianity. blending of the old and the new to justify both.

Right. That's what I was thinking. Im sure it would have been hard for a lot of these much earlier religious sources to fathom Christianity. Actually you can see this with the Catholics in particular. I visited a VERY old cathedral when i was in Louisiana and it was so Pagan. There was all kinds of strange imagery mixed in with the Christian saints and all that. Mary was dominant of course over Jesus. Also their baptismal was carved from black stone and had the bulls head with horns. Oh just a little Pagan. I think the Catholics gave into it a bit more and tried to combine the two in an attempt to get heathens on board. If that didnt work, they just killed them.