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| Topic: Have faith in science | |
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Edited by
SkyHook5652
on
Thu 09/25/08 05:53 PM
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Why do you continue to draw your sword and fight that battle against the idea of a God that does not exist with people who believe he does? Because the religion exists. The religion is very real Jeannie. The religion has an adverse affect on many lives. I know it had an adverse affect on mine. It's a totally unnecessary guilt trip. It can only serve to make decent honest people feel unnecessarily guilty. The truly nasty people coudln't care less. It only serves to make good people feel bad. So I post against it as a humanitarian service.  It's my gift to humanity.  But you don't discredit the organization of the religion itself, you directly address and speak against their mythical God, who does not actually exist. You don't do battle with the liars (the church) you attack the lie itself, which can't be proven anyway, so it is hardly worth the effort. Hence when you attack the imaginary God, his defenders the believers, come out from their hiding places and do battle with you to protect their cherished beliefs. They will stand their ground to their death, they will not listen to you. While they are too busy defending their belief, they have no time to reflect on it themselves or question whether it is truth or not. They are told they must get ready for the next attack. They are too busy defending to find their own truth. jb If you attack someone’s beliefs, you are doing nothing but telling the person they are wrong, and that if they continue to hold those beliefs, they will never be right. That is a lose-lose proposition. You cannot expect someone to just throw out what may amount to the entire foundation of their lives, just because you say it’s wrong. The only way to “change their minds” is to present them with something that can replace their current beliefs. It must be able to provide everything their current beliefs provide, and more. So instead of making them wrong, you are making them even more right than they were before! Win-win all the way! But if you don’t do that, there is no reason for them to accept anything you have to offer, because all you’re offering them is the destruction of their beliefs. But hey, who am I to talk.  |
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But you don't discredit the organization of the religion itself, you directly address and speak against their mythical God, who does not actually exist. No, I speak to the 'biblical God' which is a description in the book they found their beliefs on. The description is very real even though the God doesn't actually exist. You don't do battle with the liars (the church) you attack the lie itself, which can't be proven anyway, so it is hardly worth the effort. You're right, it can't be proven. But it can be shown to self-contradictory. In other words, it can be disproven. And has been as far as I'm concerned. Hence when you attack the imaginary God, his defenders the believers, come out from their hiding places and do battle with you to protect their cherished beliefs. They will stand their ground to their death, they will not listen to you. While they are too busy defending their belief, they have no time to reflect on it themselves or question whether it is truth or not. They are told they must get ready for the next attack. They are too busy defending to find their own truth. jb I'm not trying to convert or convince anyone. I'm just bouncing off their posts. Other people read the forums beside the posters. I often get emails from people behind the scenes thanking me for given them insights they had never thought of before. People who NEVER post to the religious forums at all, but obviosiously read them on occassion. Hey, they say if you can touch on person in a positive way you don't a great job. Well, I've gotten emails from far more than one person thanking me for my posts in the religion forums. In fact, Krimsa just recently took a quote from my post and said it was really cool and that she's like to use. So little bits and pieces are making headway. I don't expect, (nor do I even try) to convince MorningSong, ELjay, or anyone else to abandon their belief systems. But I will argue why I don't feel that their reasons for beliving it our sufficient. If I had a girlfriend I'd be too busy wallowing in the sins of love to be posting. But also, I'm a horny lonesome old man you'll have to put up with me.  Do you want me to go away. Is that what you're asking? I am writing a piece of music here as we speak! |
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But you don't discredit the organization of the religion itself, you directly address and speak against their mythical God, who does not actually exist. No, I speak to the 'biblical God' which is a description in the book they found their beliefs on. The description is very real even though the God doesn't actually exist. You don't do battle with the liars (the church) you attack the lie itself, which can't be proven anyway, so it is hardly worth the effort. You're right, it can't be proven. But it can be shown to self-contradictory. In other words, it can be disproven. And has been as far as I'm concerned. Hence when you attack the imaginary God, his defenders the believers, come out from their hiding places and do battle with you to protect their cherished beliefs. They will stand their ground to their death, they will not listen to you. While they are too busy defending their belief, they have no time to reflect on it themselves or question whether it is truth or not. They are told they must get ready for the next attack. They are too busy defending to find their own truth. jb I'm not trying to convert or convince anyone. I'm just bouncing off their posts. Other people read the forums beside the posters. I often get emails from people behind the scenes thanking me for given them insights they had never thought of before. People who NEVER post to the religious forums at all, but obviosiously read them on occassion. Hey, they say if you can touch on person in a positive way you don't a great job. Well, I've gotten emails from far more than one person thanking me for my posts in the religion forums. In fact, Krimsa just recently took a quote from my post and said it was really cool and that she's like to use. So little bits and pieces are making headway. I don't expect, (nor do I even try) to convince MorningSong, ELjay, or anyone else to abandon their belief systems. But I will argue why I don't feel that their reasons for beliving it our sufficient. If I had a girlfriend I'd be too busy wallowing in the sins of love to be posting. But also, I'm a horny lonesome old man you'll have to put up with me. Do you want me to go away. Is that what you're asking? I am writing a piece of music here as we speak! No not at all. If you have that kind of energy then I encourage you to continue. Your points on the Biblical picture are impossible to refute, but sometimes you speak about the Biblical God as if such a personality actually exits. Hey maybe he does, but for me he is an "alien" or a "false God" and a really bad dude. An impostor. A "fallen angel" who decided to be the "head God" on earth and began doing battle with the other false Gods. As far as Jesus is concerned, he is pure fiction IMO. He might be a nice character, but its doubtful there was any such person. So keep up the good work, but stop to smell the flowers now and then. How are your paintings coming? jb |
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It has already been proven. Head in sand does not change that. IT HAS NEVER NEVER NEVER EVER BEEN PROVEN BY SCIENCE , that man evolved from an ape or any other species !!! HOWEVER Man , IN HAVING TO ADAPT TO SEVERE CHANGES IN HIS ENVIRONEMT.....ESPECIALLY AFTER THE FLOOD ...COULD AND WOULD HAVE CAUSED THE CHANGES WITHIN MAN'S OWN ORIGINAL SPECIES , CALLED MAN. Notice I said, changes WITHIN ONES OWN SPECIES. BUT THAT IS NOT THE SAME AS COMPLETELY CHANGING INTO A WHOLE OTHER SPECIES. (WHICH IS WHAT EVOLUTIONISTS ARGUE) |
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Your points on the Biblical picture are impossible to refute, but sometimes you speak about the Biblical God as if such a personality actually exits. Well it does exist as a myth. Just like we can talk about the personally of Darth Vader. Even though the character isn't real, we can still speak to the issue of what his personality would be like. As far as Jesus is concerned, he is pure fiction IMO. He might be a nice character, but its doubtful there was any such person. I've always believed that he was a real person. Or at least, the character of Jesus that is portrayed in the Bible was inspired by a real person. There is such much demogourey added that it's hard to say what parts truly might have been real and which parts might have been added. You could be right, and the whole story could be a total fabrication entirely. Whether the stories were sparked by an actual rabbi, or whether they were entirely fabricated is a moot point for me. Either way, I'm convinced that the overall divinity of the story is a lie. (nothing against Jesus, as even if he did exist, he was used just like everyone else). If Jesus did live he was a victim, not a God. So keep up the good work, but stop to smell the flowers now and then. I just ordered two new guitars and a xylophone.  Well the guitars are used, but I like them that way. So don't say I'm not living life. How are your paintings coming? . Slow. I'm still working on the border. I drew a flowering vine and some green snakes. Wanna see? I did make that glass tracing bench though. It works really slick. I still haven't found my camera though! And today I lost my Go-Devil. |
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For Abra.......
God created a perfect world... God created man in HIS OWN IMAGE... BUT God ALSO gave man a FREE WILL...and man sinned......leading to spiritual death and eventual physical death. BUT God IN HIS MERCY , looked upon man in his sin and suffering, and stepped down and took our place on the cross Himself. thru His son Jesus, to bear all our sins and sicknesses..so we would not have to bear it anymore....... and ALL we have to do now, is recieve this free gift of Grace given.... and be ONCE More brought back into fellowship with the Father...just like it was in the beginning .... before sin entered the world. It is so simple really.... Abra, why is this so hard to grasp?  |
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MS,
When you say that God created man in his own image, do you mean to say that God looks like a human being? If God looks like a human being, then he must have some sort of body. Who do you suppose created God in that body and where do you suppose he lived before he came to this part of the Universe and decided to create the earth and create man? JB |
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For Jeannie
http://www.godandscience.org/cults/body.html http://wordtruth.com/whatishuman.htm http://www.gotquestions.org/image-of-God.html |
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For Jeannie http://www.godandscience.org/cults/body.html http://wordtruth.com/whatishuman.htm http://www.gotquestions.org/image-of-God.html I didn't really want links to websites I wanted to know what YOU YOURSELF THINK. |
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Edited by
MorningSong
on
Thu 09/25/08 08:20 PM
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BEFORE I SHARE What I MYSELF THINK, I MAKE SURE that what I think, lines up with what the Word of God Says,or else it is NOTHING MORE THAN OPINION, Right Jeannie?
The Websites line up with what the Word of God says..and they all ALSO AGREE with what the Holy Spirit has already revealed to my heart .  |
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Well I went to those three websites and it sounds like to me that the people who wrote those articles are confused themselves about what scripture meant about God making man in his image because it also later contradicts itself and describes God as "spirit" no flesh and blood.
Man is made flesh and blood, period. If God made man in his image then God had to at least resemble a flesh and blood man, and was probably also flesh and blood. But why is it so hard to accept the fact that a God can be flesh and blood and also have or be a spirit? Man is flesh and blood and has a soul or spirit. Seems very similar to me. But I think people just want to think of God as something so different and so above them that they can't picture a group of flesh and blood people (or Gods) creating man kind to live on this planet. After all the words were LET US MAKE MAN IN OUR IMAGE and this to me is clearly a group of beings and not just one single being or spirit. So if you want to get down to earth about what is really going on here it is more like a group of human looking flesh and blood beings came to the earth and engineered the human race. jb |
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Read them again, especially this one..your question was explained , especially on this website.
http://www.godandscience.org/cults/body.html |
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BEFORE I SHARE What I MYSELF THINK, I MAKE SURE that what I think, lines up with what the Word of God Says,or else it is NOTHING MORE THAN OPINION, Right Jeannie? The Websites line up with what the Word of God says..and they all ALSO AGREE with what the Holy Spirit has already revealed to my heart . That is what I wanted. Your thoughts. Your opinions. I would like to think that you do have one and that you do "think" for yourself and that you are a thinking person and not just a person who repeats what she has been told and accepts it without giving it any real thought simply because someone told you that it was the word of God. If you are just a person who repeats what you have been told then you have no real opinion of your own. If you have no opinion of your own then it seems pointless to ask you what you think because you just agree with what ever you have been taught and you don't think. jb |
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Re-read what I just wrote.
The websites speak exactly what God already put on my heart...but since I don't have much time to post, I shared the websites. Be Blessed Now. |
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This is what it said on that sight that you listed:
"The Bible indicates that God the Father does not have a body - that God is a Spirit. However, the Bible says that God takes on the form of a man when He comes to earth." Therefore if this is true then man is also a spirit and man also takes on the form of human when he comes to earth. That is what I have always said. I am not my body, I AM SPIRIT. JUST LIKE THE IMAGE OF GOD. I am spirit and I have only taken on a physical body to come to this earth. My higher self does not look human. So I am in the image of God, spirit and I have a body when on the earth. But for some reason humans don't want to acknowledge that they exist as spirit BEFORE they come to the earth, why? If they are the image of God then they are spirit just like God and they only take on a body when they come to earth. jb |
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Edited by
MorningSong
on
Thu 09/25/08 09:01 PM
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This line (in your previous post above),was the ONLY ACCURATE line from the website:
"The Bible indicates that God the Father does not have a body - that God is a Spirit. However, the Bible says that God takes on the form of a man when He comes to earth." The REST of what you just wrote here( in your post above), was NOT found on the website atall.... |
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Edited by
Jeanniebean
on
Thu 09/25/08 09:26 PM
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Re-read what I just wrote. The websites speak exactly what God already put on my heart...but since I don't have much time to post, I shared the websites. Be Blessed Now. you said: "BEFORE I SHARE What I MYSELF THINK, I MAKE SURE that what I think, lines up with what the Word of God Says,or else it is NOTHING MORE THAN OPINION, Right Jeannie? " Let me get this strait Morningsong, BEFORE you share what you yourself THINK, you check to MAKE SURE that what you think "lines up with what the 'word of God"' says." ..or else it is nothing more than opinion.... right? Why do you regard your opinion with such insignificance? Is your opinion not part of who you are? "Nothing more" than your opinion? Are you made to feel "wrong" or "mistaken" if your opinion does not line up with the "word of God?" Do you not have the right or the will to have your own thoughts and opinions without feeling "wrong?" If God put what you think in your heart, then why would you have to check to make sure what you think lines up with what the 'word of God?' says. How do you do that? By reading what is on the websites or by reading the Bible? If so, then God himself is not "putting these things in your heart" you seem to be getting them from the Bible or from these websites. Somewhere in there you yourself has an opinion and an original thought of your very own. That is what I seek. I seek the real Morningsong. I want to know the real morningsong and what she thinks. I fear I will never find her.  jb |
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Edited by
Jeanniebean
on
Thu 09/25/08 09:34 PM
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This line (in your previous post above),was the ONLY ACCURATE line from the website: "The Bible indicates that God the Father does not have a body - that God is a Spirit. However, the Bible says that God takes on the form of a man when He comes to earth." The REST of what you just wrote here( in your post above), was NOT found on the website atall.... You are correct. I put in quotation marks what I found on the website. The rest was MY OWN THOUGHTS ABOUT IT. I do have an opinion. If I did not say it, it is within quotation marks. I did not mean to give the impression that the entire post was taken from the website. Only the part within quotation marks Morning song. The rest of the post are MY WORDS. JB These are my words. I am in the image of God. Therefore if this is true then man is also a spirit and man also takes on the form of human when he comes to earth. That is what I have always said. I am not my body, I AM SPIRIT. JUST LIKE THE IMAGE OF GOD. I am spirit and I have only taken on a physical body to come to this earth. My higher self does not look human. So I am in the image of God, spirit and I have a body when on the earth. But for some reason humans don't want to acknowledge that they exist as spirit BEFORE they come to the earth, why? If they are the image of God then they are spirit just like God and they only take on a body when they come to earth. |
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If Christians are saying that God does NOT look like a human and he does not have a body of flesh and blood, then the statement that he (or they) made man in their image cannot be correct.
It should have read: "Let us make man in the image of the body that we take on when we come to the physical world." instead of "Let us make man in our image." So if God is Spirit, and just takes on the image of a human body when he comes to the earth, then so must be man. Man must also be spirit and man must also just take "on the form" of a human body when he comes to the earth. But I suppose if God is all powerful he could take on any form when he comes to the earth, not just a human form. God could take on the form of a burning bush for example. So God would not be limited to just a human form if this is the case. I agree that God is spirit, and probably takes on the form of a human when on the earth, but then I think that humans are also spirit and that they also take on the human body when they incarnate to the earth. Scripture confirms this. |
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Edited by
Eljay
on
Thu 09/25/08 09:45 PM
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Eljay, Yeah I must tell you I dont know which show that is exactly because I looked up the "History Channel" website also and this is all I could find when I entered in search word "Neanderthal" 25,000 B.C. In Europe, arctic glaciers reach as far south as London. Massive predators are on the prowl. Across the continent, two species of primitive man struggle to survive. The Neanderthals are natural hunters, built for brute strength and well-adapted to the cold. However, they lack the understanding of technology and ability to speak in abstract terms that our species has. The Cro-Magnon, Homo sapiens are smarter but more fragile. With exciting new research in anthropology, archaeology and genetics, follow these early humans through a season of survival. Here is another article detailing the DNA sequencing. http://www.jqjacobs.net/anthro/paleo/neanderthal.html If you find it, post. Are you confusing the Cro-Mags and Neanderthal? No - they were pretty specific about Homo Sapien. I'm watching a show on robotics now - so I'll check it out later. It was a premire show, and the guide on my T.V. just called the show Neanderthal. Gosh I'm gettin' old. I don't even remember which night it was on - but it was last week. I do know that the name of the company that is responsible for the genome sequencing is "454 Life Sciences" and they are located in Branford Conn. This I remembered because I have a dear friend who lives in Branford, and have been there many times. I checked out their web site - but most of the links are only current to 2007, and the Neanderthal links didn't connect for me. |
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