I think I'll have a chicken caesar salad w/avocado........with a side of human entrails.


CYA!!

I meant originally ... [slaps forehead] doh!

Tiger Tim the Tightrope Walker, tried to steal the drag queen's daughter.

Lost me

I'm glad you brought this up Belushi because as much as I post I still notice that most people don't understand where I'm coming from.

The first thing I'd like to make clear is that I currently have no 'belief system'. Especially in the context of a 'system'. In other words, I have no "religion", nor do I adhere to any rituals religiously. I can safely say that I'm not a religious person.

At the same time I do 'believe' in spirituality, meaning that our true nature is spiritual and not physical. By that I mean that I'm pretty convinced that this is the true nature of existence. It's not a 'faith-based' belief, it's a 'belief' based on personal experience, and intellectual reasoning. I also continue to put the word 'belief' in quotes because that's all it is. It's a 'belief', not a fact. I could be wrong in holding that 'belief', and I acknowledge that possibility. Therefore in order to be totally honest with myself I must confess that I'm ultimately agnostic. I confess that I don't know what is true and what is not true in any absolute sense. I confess this not only to you, but to myself, and to any creator that might exist. After all, if a creator does exist surely it would want me to be as honest as possible, and it my genuine truth is that I don't know something then to confess that I don't know it seems to be to be the only acceptable thing to do.

However, as I say, I do lean toward 'believing' in a spiritual essence for all of creation. I personally feel that this is more likely than not. If I had to hedge bets I would bet that we are spirit. Of course betting on Atheism would be utterly stupid anyway because even if you win the bet you lose.

So ultimately if I have to check a box I must check the box marked "Agnostic". However, in the real world I hate to check that box publicly because many people take that to mean that I'm confused or might even be open to any possibility. There are possibilities that I'm not open to. One of them is a belief in the Mediterranean based religions (Christianity, Judaism, and Islam). As far as I'm concerned those particular religions are impossibilities. They are impossible because they are based on self-contradictions. The God that they describe is an oxymoron. It simply can't be what they claim it must be and simultaneously be responsible for the stories that are in their doctrines. Their stories simply don't match up with what they claim God must be like.

And this is the other thing that many people don't understand about me as often as I try to explain it.

In my younger days I was much more "religious" than I am today. Even as a young child, before I was formally introduced to religion, I tended to think in terms of spirituality. When I was introduced to religion (Christianity), I automatically assumed that it was true. Why shouldn't I? My parents told me it was true, as did all of my relations. The whole extended family were quite religious. Not pompously pious, just meek devout believers. In fact, they weren't 'obnoxiously religious' at all. They did pray before every meal, and at bed time, and they studied the Bible etc., but they weren't the slightest bit into proselytizing the religion or judging other people who were not members of the religion. They were just meek Christians doing the things that Jesus taught in them most unobtrusive way possible.

In short, there was nothing in my immediate family that turned me off to the religion. My family were not exactly hypocritical. However, I didn't notice failings in that they would often pray to God for help and assistance with various things and never seem to get any results. So while it wasn't hypocritical, it didn't seem to be working the way it was supposed to work (according to what was preached about it).

The other thing too, is that several of my uncles were preachers, and they would often invite other preachers over for dinner. So I saw many religious discussions. One thing that became vividly apparent to me is that the preachers didn't always agree on things. This was important because I wanted to truly understand the religion. Well, gee, if the very preachers themselves seem to have differing opinions on things that which opinion is true? They can't all be right. Surely there has to be a firm answer. It makes no sense for God to be ambiguous about what he wants from us.

So I took it upon myself to study the bible and see if I can determine the answers to these questions. I was hoping to teach the Bible, or at the very least help people understand it. This was all done with the intent of love. I believe that God was all-loving. Surely the bible can be taught and understood solely from a viewpoint of love.

Well, what I found is that the bible is not only extremely ambiguous, but it is actually quite self-inconsistent and contradictive. Often to the point of being utterly absurd. I had so many question (sincere questions) that people started viewing me as a 'skeptic and non-believer'. Rather than trying to help find answers they would become 'defensive' and say things like, "Well, you can't just take one verse, or even one story in the Bible. You need to take the whole big picture of it all."

Well, ironically the bigger picture is even worse yet. Trying to take the Bible as one huge coherent story reveals even more blatant contradictions and inconsistencies. I finally got to the point, where I found it absolutely impossible to salvage as a coherent story. I could never attempt to teach it because I can't justify it or defend it. Then I had to ask myself, "Why am I still believing in it then?"

Of course, before I could abandon my own faith, I had to go back over it with every intent to salvage it into some kind of meaningful coherence. I found it impossible to salvage on any level. I would need to ignore so many blatant contradictions (or assume that they are either mistakes or demagoguery) that I finally realized that to even remotely try to make it work I'd have to denounce about 99% of it as being false, or terribly in error.

And the real bottom line had to be the question, "Why am I even bothering to try to save it?"

Why should I even want this dogma to be true? The stories claim that all of mankind has fallen from grace from their creator. A creator who can only forgive bad behavior if there is a blood sacrifice. And he ultimately had to send his son to be nailed to a pole to save the hopelessly sinful human race.

It's not even a pretty picture of a relationship man and his creator. Why should I want to try to salvage a completely inept self-inconsistent and contradictive story that is such a negative view of mankind and of God? A supposedly all-wise God who can only seem to solve problems using utterly ignorant violent methods?

Then I also learned that great men have denounced these stories. Albert Einstien, Isaac Newton, Carl Saga, Richard Feynman, the list goes on and on and on. Some of the most brilliant minds in all of humanity have rejected this story as being utter nonsense. And I'm sure they did it for the same reasons I did. It's an absurd story that can't be made to work.

Once I was finally free from that dogma, I began to look for other pictures of spirituality that might be more plausible. I've personally decided that the pantheistic view of reality makes the most sense. It's not self-inconsistent, it doesn't contradict itself. The "god" (or creator) in pantheism truly has unconditional love. There are no conditions on 'gods' love whatsoever. None. It's true unconditional love. Not like the biblical God who places more conditions on his love than there are grains of sand on a beach.

I have no idea whether there is a 'godhead'. But if there is a 'godhead' it's truly benevolent and sane, it's not a demon that lusts for blood sacrifices. Although, I'm now convinced that there isn't even any need for a single 'godhead'. I don't think in terms of a godhead. I think more in terms of spirituality. There's really no need for a head honcho that is a jealous egotistical judge. It just isn't even a necessary concept at all. That whole mythology is just a scare tactic invented by superstitious men.

So I have no rigid "belief system" now Belushi. I tend to 'believe' that we are spiritual in nature, but I confess that pure atheism could also be the ultimate truth. I genuinely don't know. The only thing I know for absolute certainty is that the biblical picture of God is a Holy Nightmare of contradictions. And to be perfectly honest about it I would rather Atheism be true then have the biblical picture of God be true. Atheism would actually be more humane and than the biblical picture IMHO.

Why did you become catholic because of your dad?
Did you believe in the catholic edicts?

Been around your posts two years now James, and I kinda got that ... lol



So, if you think atheism more humane, what are your thoughts on the tenets of humanism?

I think that more Christians need to try out other denominations - Catholics try out a Baptist church, Baptists go to a Lutheran church, Presbyterians check out a Non Denominational Church, so on and so forth. That way maybe they could see all of the different interpretations of the same book and the same relgion... instead of believing that yours is the correct one and everything else is wrong.

I was raised Catholic on my dad's side and Baptist on my mom's side. I was baptised as a baby in accordance with the Catholic religion and saved in accordance with the Baptist religion. When I spent time with my dad's family I went to Catholic church when I was at home with my mom I did Sunday school at the Baptist church.

I actually sailed along most of my young life believing in god. I collected different bibles as a hobby when I was younger.

I started questioning when I was going to catachysm, I think that is what it is called when you have your first communion which I refused to have. Then I had my son and needed help from the local Catholic church for food one time and he asked me alot of questions about my life and proceeded to tell me that if I did not get my son a father he was going to grow up to be a rapist. Put me back a bit. My bible collection got ruined in a pipe break in the basement I was storing them in so I lost those.

Over time I began to analyze the bible without the reverence given it by the teachers of the bible and started to see it for what it was. A story book. A book of parables with a moralistic twist designed to further the beliefs of say one man or a few. My childrens father is Mormon so I had a taste of Mormonism. I studied with Jehovah's witnesses for a bit. I read up on Wicca. Had a talk with some devout Muslims. Had someone teach me the chant for Buddhism and explain basics on it.

But it wasn't until I got so sick with the MS and had been so sick for so long that I begged to die that I had an epiphany. I then let go of the ball and chain of Christianity that I had been hauling around for everyone elses peace of mind and examined me, my spirit, my emotional status, my position in life, my path, my desires for mental growth. I came to the conclusion after analyzing how I felt that I am connected to all living things through this energy I feel within me and around me, that I am an influence on all life just by being alive, positivity within onesself radiates to the world through our attitude, actions and "aura" or the energy we emitate, my purpose is a humble one to live to the best of my ability, etc...

I have found this "place" for me to be most satisfying spiritually, emotionally, mentally and physically. I am growing on many levels daily and I welcome it. I am about as free as one person can be from where I am at.

Yeah I know. But I really posted it for people who haven't been deprived from having a real life due to forum additions as much as you and I have been.




I've always believed that mercy killings are more humane than eternally torturing decent well-meaning people simply because they aren't perfect and they failed to believe in an utterly unbelievable stories.

I mean, let's face it, the tenets of the biblical stories are utterly unrighteous and inhumane, there's no two-ways about it.

I realized that I was getting nowhere "giving everything" to some god who was supposed to "magickally" take care of me. I believe in self discovery, self realization and self healing. Do I believe in deity? I believe in many deities. But I believe they are their to guide us, not hold our hand. It finally got through my thick skull that this life and everything in it.. where we are in life, how we make it, is a choice. That's what lead me to witchcraft. It's all about taking full responsibility for everything. And learning to change your life through self discovery.

Hi Belushi!

How is the Egyptian Wine over there?

I was raised with no religion but always saw many different religious practices. I was always offered the Quran and Bible in my travels. I skimmed through them and found them a bit tad boring to tell you the truth. I also had a taste of Buddhism and to the contrary to the Mediterrenean Mythologies enjoyed that very much. I gave up the practice many years ago to just recently tap into it again because my wife brought home a buddha statue the other day. I have lived 38 years without religion and managed to stay out of trouble and did many great humantarian deeds on my journey of life. I probably can live another 38 years without a religion and still feel comfortable with myself, yet since I respect my wife dearly, I will probably start meditating again as it makes her happy and in the end it feels good to me also just to experience a moment of silence.

Like the professor of Mythology Joseph Campbell always said " Follow your Bliss".

Whatever hits your fancy in a belief system go ahead and do it as long as it doesn't destroy or force others to believe in it.

If there was a religion called fantasology(fantasy), I would click on that tab and just use imagination all day as it is very entertaining and relaxing.

i use to believe in god,but nothing good came from it,i saw an interview about stephen hawking on religion,it all made sense,and i question myself,why should i believe in something that probably isnt there? or how is this going to benefit me in my life? so i stopped believing and it has actually made my life alot better,and opened up my mind.

I was born this way... and have spent the last 20 years unlearning other peoples decisions, to arrive back here.

Middle Australia in the 60's and 70's was loosely a christian nation, with a large smattering of catholicism, (or is that middle Australia was just loose with it's religions?)..
with religion being part of the school curriculum back then.

Why am I not still stuck in the religious edicts of my childhood?

Quite simply because they aren't mine, they were the 'robes' of others' religions that I was forced to wear for a time.

I don't have an identity/title/label for any form of religious belief/spiritual understanding that I feel drawn to, as there are many truths in many different belief structures, although Abra felt comparisons with Pantheism when reading my understandings,....(hang on, is that another robe??? )

I am only that which I am, and walk towards that which resonates in me, and that which I aspire to be.

If i were to label myself something it would be - "past expiration date"

I was born into the "Diputs" religion and attended school there till i was 13, I saw a paper outside on a telephone poll one day in front of the church that said - "god is dead" Nietzsche-

I pondered on that for the rest of the day and thought of all that was happening with my mom and my life and came to the conclusion he was right - even though i did not know who "he" was.

The next 13 years give or take i was agnostic, it was not until a Jewish carpenter [no not jesus] willy bogen, got me interested in reading a book called late great planet earth by Hal Lindsey, why did i read it? well because i saw an extremely incredible change in my friend and had asked him what had happened and he told me he had found the truth and the truth was that he - meaning jesus- was god. so i read this book on prophecy and armageddon and revelations and started to get interested not to long after i became a christian. 8 years later neither me, willy, ken, or any of our friends were still Christians -

why? well remember the religion i told you about in the beginning? i finally figured out what is spelled backwords, that settled it for me - i found out the hard way that it was Diputs/stupid
a man made belief, always has been always will be.so what am i now?? - lost and i couldn't be happier.

It’s a robe, that when worn properly, fits so loosely that it falls away on it’s own accord.

I’m not a preacher of “pantheism”, in fact I don’t even view it as a religious ‘belief system’. To me, it’s just a philosophical notion. Once which I advocate as being the most pleasing, most enlightening, and most likely potential scenario of existence. It’s certainly not important to ‘believe’ in it, but I think it can help some people who feel ‘separate’ to realize and understand that they are not ‘lost’ in a universe, but rather they are at home where they belong. If a person already feels that way on their own, then more power to them!

It’s certainly not a philosophy that is important to know, believe, or understand. However, I would suggest that as a basis for social civilizations I think it’s probably the best philosophical notion yet created by mankind.

Other than that, I agree that not wearing any robes at all is more fun. I always did enjoy being naked and riding bareback in the rain.

Which animals I chose to ride is my own business.

Originally I was born in California and I got to this State by car. I came here by bus once after being dragged to Alabama by my second husband.

I like Colorado. It is the best State to live in I think.

Oh you aren't talking about that state are you?

After I figure out what my current state is, I'll let you know.



JB

Evaluating current state........

.... downloading ..............

.... estimated time left..... 650 years until download complete...

.... downloading....

..... still downloading.......

CANCEL OPERATION

*****************

Never mind.

My Father was an Athiest


My mother Episcopalian


I never attended church unless at grandma's and that was it.


However I have always had God in my heart from a very young age. If you ask me how this is so....because most believe your are taught to believe what your parents believe....well that theory is blown....I have always had a relationship with God.

Then circumstances happen to me......and I went on the quest of my life. I studied everything I could get my hands on as far as religion. You name it I have been there done that.

Then again more circumstances and now in this relationship with God that I knew I had....It had to be brought to the forefront....He had to show me some things.

Two different occasions I said "God if you are real, SHOW ME" He did.....And that was all I needed. Now these were not lil subtle show me's by God....They were huge show me's.

And even now and in the religion thread I will take myself away, pray and wait for The Lord. Sometimes it is subtle......back is all I will get....and sometimes he smacks me upside my head, or leads me to someone who put me right back on the path that God has for me.

I think the one thing that is the hardest for me.....Is why for the most part all the people of this planet think they have to be in control. I give it to God gladly and because of my Love and Faith In God.....I want for nothing. When there is something I need to do.....I give it to Him.....and it is done.....

Now as far as religion for me......A big part of me wishes people would take religion out of it. My relationship is with GOD, and Christ. I am a Christian for the fellowship. Now again I am blessed because I happen to be with Open Bible Church and this family is just that in every sense of the word. If someone is sick, we are all there, if someone is having a baby, we are all there, we vacation together, we laugh, and cry and deal with heartache together. This is what makes me a Christian......What makes me.....me Is God. I am his sevant, the ministries, the world evangelist work I do......Every minute of every day that I am on this planet is to do God's work. And no matter how hard the narrow path is I chose....I chose with a glad heart.....and a major heart for God.

Someone asked me once if right now......right this very minute God asked you to die for him, would you? I did not even hesitate YES YES YES

so then based on this exerpt, you must admire those people who blow themselves up for their god..they love him just as much as you love yours....