Topic: the land belongs to the natives
karmafury's photo
Tue 07/29/08 06:46 AM
It's still happening.:cry:

http://www.sacredland.org/historical_sites_pages/black_hills.html

Kevrides's photo
Tue 07/29/08 11:42 AM
Then lets all of the governments of the world give back the land to the natives they have taken from them. C'mon who is going to go first?
Certainly you don't think that the USA is the first country in the history of the world to have displaced the native inhabitants. Besides when our country took land from the native Americans they made the resulting country into the greatest country in the history of humanity. The most giving, the most successful, the wealthiest, the most compassionate..I could go on. The way we treated and still treat the native American is a whole lot more humane than the way some countries have delt with the current inhabitants of "newly discovered" lands.

Dragoness's photo
Tue 07/29/08 11:45 AM

Then lets all of the governments of the world give back the land to the natives they have taken from them. C'mon who is going to go first?
Certainly you don't think that the USA is the first country in the history of the world to have displaced the native inhabitants. Besides when our country took land from the native Americans they made the resulting country into the greatest country in the history of humanity. The most giving, the most successful, the wealthiest, the most compassionate..I could go on. The way we treated and still treat the native American is a whole lot more humane than the way some countries have delt with the current inhabitants of "newly discovered" lands.


None of that makes it right and just. So actually all of that makes it even more sinister and evil. JMO

Fanta46's photo
Tue 07/29/08 12:55 PM
Native American wars were common before the Europeans arrived.
They were called blood fueds or mourning wars. Their purpose
was for revenge, prestige, or designed to take captives. They were usually surprise attacks on un suspecting, unprepard, and
outnumbered goups of neighboring tribes. They were done as such because the Native Indians believed if they died a violent death they had to spend eternity looking for vengence. The surprise attacks also served the purpose of obtaining large numbers of captives!

Here is what the smithsonian says was the fate of those captives.



Fanta46's photo
Tue 07/29/08 12:56 PM
Edited by Fanta46 on Tue 07/29/08 12:58 PM
The Captives’ Fate.

Enemy Indians taken captive in mourning wars confronted several fates. Women and children who were a burden and enemy warriors perceived to be a threat were, on occasion, scalped and killed immediately. In general, however, prisoners were bound and led back to their captors’ home village. Upon arrival the captives were stripped, bound at the hands and feet, and forced to walk a gauntlet of tribe members who repeatedly struck them with clubs, torches, and knives. Later the tribal council assigned each prisoner to a family that had lost relatives to that captive’s tribe. In general, women, children, and skilled or especially attractive men were adopted into the family. These captives were given the name, title, and position of the person they replaced, and, over time, became integrated into their new family and became loyal to their new tribe. Their capture thus eased the pain of bereavement, maintained the size of family, clan, and tribe, and restored the spiritual strength that the community had lost through the death of a member.


Fanta46's photo
Tue 07/29/08 12:56 PM
Edited by Fanta46 on Tue 07/29/08 12:59 PM
Ritual Sacrifice.

While women and children generally replaced dead family members, most captured warriors were condemned to die through ritual sacrifice. As with women and children, such prisoners were adopted into a family and took the name and title of a recently deceased clan member. After a brief period in which the family treated the prisoner with respect and affection, the clan gave the victim a final feast in anticipation of his death. The next day, the entire village assembled in the primary war chiefs longhouse and began torturing the captive in a lengthy, highly ritualized ceremony. After the prisoner’s death, the tribe concluded the ceremony by cooking and eating his remains.


Fanta46's photo
Tue 07/29/08 12:58 PM
Sources: Bruce G. Trigger, ed., Handbook of North American Indians, Volume 15: Northeast (Washington, D.C.: Smithsonian Institution, 1988);

Wilcomb E. Washburn, ed., Handbook of North American Indians, Volume 4: History of Indian-White Relations (Washington, D.C.: Smithsonian Institution, 1988).

http://www.encyclopedia.com/doc/1G2-2536600186.html

mnhiker's photo
Tue 07/29/08 01:14 PM
Edited by mnhiker on Tue 07/29/08 01:15 PM

It's still happening.:cry:

http://www.sacredland.org/historical_sites_pages/black_hills.html


From the article above:

'The Indian Claims Commission, the Court of Claims, and
finally the Supreme Court in 1980 recognized the 8 Lakota
Nations' rights to the part of the Black Hills specified in
the 1868 treaty. But instead of ordering the government to
return the land, the Claims Commission awarded a financial
sum equal to the land’s value in 1877 plus interest. This
sum now totals $570 million—a considerable amount but still
much smaller than the value of the natural resources which
have been extracted from the Black Hills, estimated
at $4 billion. The Lakota have refused to accept the money
on the grounds that one cannot buy and sell sacred land.'

'The land claim settlement money sits untouched in a bank
account while the Lakota, who have the lowest income and
highest unemployment rates in the country, continue to
demand the return of their land.'

What could they do with $570 million?

They could use it to create businesses, like a casino.

Or build schools or hospitals.

They could build an ethanol plant.

Or do some other worthy thing with the money.

Implementing any of these ideas would improve the lives of Native Americans living in the area.

But instead, the Lakota elders stubbornly resist.

damnitscloudy's photo
Tue 07/29/08 01:36 PM
To back up Fanta's claim, Kentucky was a known battle feild for tribes because the land was very fertile and had alot of wildlife. If you go walking thru the woods you can still find arrow heads and primitive tomahawks laying around everywhere noway

Fanta46's photo
Tue 07/29/08 01:45 PM
Edited by Fanta46 on Tue 07/29/08 01:47 PM
When the Europeans arrived in N America the Natives saw that they would pay in trade for their slaves. This started the Natives to make larger and more frequent raids on rival tribes, specifically to obtain slaves for selling to the Europeans. Most of these slaves were then shipped to the West Indies to be used as labor on sugar plantations. Many tribes in Fla were wiped out from Creek raids designed for obtaining slaves.
It has been estimated that at Charles Town alone between 1670 and 1715, 30 to 50,000 such slaves were shipped out to the West Indies!
Eventually for various reasons, mostly the arrival of African slaves. this practice was abandoned. When it was the Native Indians began to acquire black slaves for themselves!
At the time of the Trail of Tears forced march in 1830, the Natives were known to take 15,000 Indian owned African slaves with them!

http://www.slaveryinamerica.org/history/hs_es_indians_slavery.htm

Etrain's photo
Tue 07/29/08 02:03 PM
Good thing we came over here to straighten the savages out...they had WMD too???laugh laugh laugh Spanish Inquisition...any of you europeans hear of that??? All human beings can do great good...but also very terrible things...many such terrible things done in the name of there godsflowerforyou

mnhiker's photo
Tue 07/29/08 02:08 PM
Edited by mnhiker on Tue 07/29/08 02:08 PM

Good thing we came over here to straighten the savages out...they had WMD too???laugh laugh laugh Spanish Inquisition...any of you europeans hear of that??? All human beings can do great good...but also very terrible things...many such terrible things done in the name of there godsflowerforyou


'Nobody expects a Spanish Inquisition.'

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gldlyTjXk9A

no photo
Tue 07/29/08 02:09 PM

Then lets all of the governments of the world give back the land to the natives they have taken from them. C'mon who is going to go first?
Certainly you don't think that the USA is the first country in the history of the world to have displaced the native inhabitants. Besides when our country took land from the native Americans they made the resulting country into the greatest country in the history of humanity. The most giving, the most successful, the wealthiest, the most compassionate..I could go on. The way we treated and still treat the native American is a whole lot more humane than the way some countries have delt with the current inhabitants of "newly discovered" lands.


we cant, we killed all of them....sick

Etrain's photo
Tue 07/29/08 02:09 PM


Good thing we came over here to straighten the savages out...they had WMD too???laugh laugh laugh Spanish Inquisition...any of you europeans hear of that??? All human beings can do great good...but also very terrible things...many such terrible things done in the name of there godsflowerforyou


'Nobody expects a Spanish Inquisition.'

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gldlyTjXk9A

laugh laugh laugh laugh laugh awesome!!!laugh laugh laugh laugh laugh

Fanta46's photo
Tue 07/29/08 02:18 PM


Then lets all of the governments of the world give back the land to the natives they have taken from them. C'mon who is going to go first?
Certainly you don't think that the USA is the first country in the history of the world to have displaced the native inhabitants. Besides when our country took land from the native Americans they made the resulting country into the greatest country in the history of humanity. The most giving, the most successful, the wealthiest, the most compassionate..I could go on. The way we treated and still treat the native American is a whole lot more humane than the way some countries have delt with the current inhabitants of "newly discovered" lands.


we cant, we killed all of them....sick


No we didnt!
The Cherokee here in Western NC are equal in number now as at anytime in their history!

karmafury's photo
Tue 07/29/08 02:53 PM
It isn't an example of past history with Native Americans!!

It's still happening now!!grumble grumble

So because it was done in the past does that make it right to continue to screw them over?:angry: :angry:

Fanta46's photo
Tue 07/29/08 02:54 PM

It isn't an example of past history with Native Americans!!

It's still happening now!!grumble grumble

So because it was done in the past does that make it right to continue to screw them over?:angry: :angry:


Not here!!noway noway noway

Fanta46's photo
Tue 07/29/08 03:06 PM
They are very happy here, and thrive on the same land they have called home since 12,000 BC.
They are honored and their history is accepted as part of our history.
We do not forget what happened to them but most of the blame goes to Jackson. The land they have here, they own out right. It is not really a Reservation.

Fanta46's photo
Tue 07/29/08 03:17 PM
Edited by Fanta46 on Tue 07/29/08 03:22 PM
Did you know that the Lakota did not even arrive in the Black Hills until around 1745?

They were forced from their original home by the Ojibwa or Chippewa tribe of Canada as they were pushed westward by the French and British!

http://faculty.normandale.edu/~physics/Hollabaugh/Lakota/BriefHistory.htm

mnhiker's photo
Tue 07/29/08 03:23 PM

Did you know that the Lakota did not even arrive in the Black Hills until around 1745?

They were forced from their original home by the Ojibwa or Chippewa tribe of Canada as they were pushed westward by the French and British!


Interesting.

They should take the settlement money while they still can.

After all, 'beggars can't be choosers'!