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Topic: the ugly side of war
no photo
Wed 07/16/08 03:35 PM

War has no other side but UGLY.

People have the power to stop all wars but they do not want to . It is a very sad fact .

no photo
Wed 07/16/08 08:59 PM


What country are you from? If not the US then what attrocities have your countries armed forces committed.

To lump all of us in the same catagory as a small fraction causes me to wonder what your agenda is.


I come from a country that has suffered greatly because of US interference, dating back to the 70s with the Military coup supported by the CIA, Nixon, Kissenger and their "condor plan" for all of Latin America (which still has its influence even today)...what atrocities has my country committed?? how about 30,000 disappeared citizens...we tend to kill each other, not people from other countries..

irartguy's photo
Wed 07/16/08 09:52 PM


people are good because they are god's creation but their hearts are evil - this comes from unbelief and living in sin.flowerforyou

There are thousands of religions and they are all man made kinda of politics . How many wars , pain , suffering and injustices were committed in the name of religion ?. Humans history is my witness .


Humans are just another dumb animal, on a speck of dust, in a solar system, in a galaxy, in a universe, full of trillions of other galaxies -- probably filled with other solar systems and other specks of dirt populated by other dumb animals. Nothing more, nothing less.

Belief in a religion is no defining element of one's morality. If you need a holy book, savior, God, or whatever to see reason in maintaining a basic sort of morality -- one could question your reasoning for being "moral" and weather or not you are "moral" at all. Put a gun to my head and I'll tell you anything you want to hear. :)

Fanta46's photo
Wed 07/16/08 10:23 PM
Edited by Fanta46 on Wed 07/16/08 10:47 PM



What country are you from? If not the US then what atrocities have your countries armed forces committed.

To lump all of us in the same category as a small fraction causes me to wonder what your agenda is.


I come from a country that has suffered greatly because of US interference, dating back to the 70s with the Military coup supported by the CIA, Nixon, Kissenger and their "condor plan" for all of Latin America (which still has its influence even today)...what atrocities has my country committed?? how about 30,000 disappeared citizens...we tend to kill each other, not people from other countries..


You are correct symbelyne about the CIA's involvement in your country and all of S America during the Cold war. They werent alone though as the KGB was there first!

It would not have been possible though without the citizens of those countries, and the atrocities committed by and upon their own people which were already fueling a willing participation in their Civil Wars, uprisings, and military coups.

All the CIA really did was fund the efforts of the side more closely resembling Democracy, or the opposite side as the KGB! Yes, often they did end up supporting the wrong side, but the point is that it would not have been possible without the cooperation of your countrymen, or the uprisings, and bigotry that already existed in your countries.

Sure we put young men into combat, and most in the basic combat MOSs, Infantry etc, are young men from poorer backgrounds with less education. Some young men, 18 and 19 yrs old are immature and irresponsible, and more often than not their actions are based on testosterone rather than common sense. Although the Army seeks to guide their continued maturing they often have to first overcome 18 yrs of upbringing, many times by less than desirable parenting!
Still the US Armed forces does a great job of this, and many Vets will attest to growing and maturing into responsible citizens from their time in service that their non-veteran counterparts may never achieve.

I'm sure we will have our share of problems from returning vets from this war, but most will adapt back into society and their contributions as civilians will do the US armed forces proud as they have for generations.

Belushi's photo
Wed 07/16/08 10:46 PM

I'm sure most will come home and be just fine. We mustn't generalize from a few bad individuals -- however it's the government's responsibility to assess each and every one of them for post-traumatic conditions that may put ex-soldiers and the people around them in danger.


Most will come home but they will not be fine.

They will continue fighting the war in their heads for years after.

The responsibility of the govt doesnt mean they will actually take it up!

ColinMiller's photo
Wed 07/16/08 11:03 PM
When has war ever been "pretty"? The sad, hard truth is war will always be around, wherever there is a disagreement about anything there will be war.

irartguy's photo
Wed 07/16/08 11:34 PM


I'm sure most will come home and be just fine. We mustn't generalize from a few bad individuals -- however it's the government's responsibility to assess each and every one of them for post-traumatic conditions that may put ex-soldiers and the people around them in danger.


Most will come home but they will not be fine.

They will continue fighting the war in their heads for years after.

The responsibility of the govt doesnt mean they will actually take it up!


I agree. The Gov't has done a fairly poor job of insuring that returning soldiers get the physical and mental health care that they require -- and probably wont being fixing the system until after the election. It's a tragedy all it's own really.

Fanta46's photo
Thu 07/17/08 12:07 AM
Edited by Fanta46 on Thu 07/17/08 12:10 AM
Bush has done a piss poor job of looking after our vets. What he hasnt done the press has more than made up for by over inflating the magnitude of the problem.

Its not as bad as the bleeding hearts in the press make it out to be.

Belushi's photo
Thu 07/17/08 12:25 AM



I'm sure most will come home and be just fine. We mustn't generalize from a few bad individuals -- however it's the government's responsibility to assess each and every one of them for post-traumatic conditions that may put ex-soldiers and the people around them in danger.


Most will come home but they will not be fine.

They will continue fighting the war in their heads for years after.

The responsibility of the govt doesnt mean they will actually take it up!


I agree. The Gov't has done a fairly poor job of insuring that returning soldiers get the physical and mental health care that they require -- and probably wont being fixing the system until after the election. It's a tragedy all it's own really.

I cant see it being fixed at all.

It hasnt so far, so why bother?

no photo
Thu 07/17/08 07:22 AM
Edited by symbelmyne on Thu 07/17/08 07:24 AM


You are correct symbelyne about the CIA's involvement in your country and all of S America during the Cold war. They werent alone though as the KGB was there first!

It would not have been possible though without the citizens of those countries, and the atrocities committed by and upon their own people which were already fueling a willing participation in their Civil Wars, uprisings, and military coups.

All the CIA really did was fund the efforts of the side more closely resembling Democracy, or the opposite side as the KGB! Yes, often they did end up supporting the wrong side, but the point is that it would not have been possible without the cooperation of your countrymen, or the uprisings, and bigotry that already existed in your countries.



Latin America has always been in the eye of more developed nations (stemming further back than just the cold war days) because of the vast resources here..we could be fully independent of all foreign interests if said interests would only leave us alone and let us develop..however, the US has always been terrified of comunisim and under the banner of protecting its "interests" (IE..keeping its hooks in the resources here) has overthrown democratically elected presidents and put dictators in their place (like Pinochet). America believes in democracy only with it servers her interests...if you dont believe me, then just take a look at the mess America has created in the middle east...

Fanta46's photo
Thu 07/17/08 03:38 PM
Edited by Fanta46 on Thu 07/17/08 04:29 PM



You are correct symbelyne about the CIA's involvement in your country and all of S America during the Cold war. They werent alone though as the KGB was there first!

It would not have been possible though without the citizens of those countries, and the atrocities committed by and upon their own people which were already fueling a willing participation in their Civil Wars, uprisings, and military coups.

All the CIA really did was fund the efforts of the side more closely resembling Democracy, or the opposite side as the KGB! Yes, often they did end up supporting the wrong side, but the point is that it would not have been possible without the cooperation of your countrymen, or the uprisings, and bigotry that already existed in your countries.



Latin America has always been in the eye of more developed nations (stemming further back than just the cold war days) because of the vast resources here..we could be fully independent of all foreign interests if said interests would only leave us alone and let us develop..however, the US has always been terrified of comunisim and under the banner of protecting its "interests" (IE..keeping its hooks in the resources here) has overthrown democratically elected presidents and put dictators in their place (like Pinochet). America believes in democracy only with it servers her interests...if you dont believe me, then just take a look at the mess America has created in the middle east...


Continued........
We didnt start it. That prestige goes to England!
We didnt improve the situation we just continued the same policies!

Latin America has benefited by the aid the US gives. The Cold War is over but their leaders continue to abuse their people and pocket out of greed a lot of the money we send!

no photo
Thu 07/17/08 04:11 PM

When has war ever been "pretty"? The sad, hard truth is war will always be around, wherever there is a disagreement about anything there will be war.

People can stop all wars if they want .
they do not want to because they believe the media and the politicians .

01tim's photo
Thu 07/17/08 04:14 PM
the government mainly bush drop the ball in afghanistan. to invade Iraq. guess hulburton needed the money.

madisonman's photo
Fri 08/22/08 10:37 AM

war makes people do ugly things..even the most "noble" of soldiers..the scary part is that these men will be returning home...wonder what kind of citizens they'll make...?

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article20077.htm


wonder how long this post is going to last????

This makes me ill to be an american

Lynann's photo
Fri 08/22/08 10:57 AM
Edited by Lynann on Fri 08/22/08 10:59 AM
The armed services are hard pressed to meet recruiting quotas. We do not have enough boots on the ground. Because of this recruiting standards have been relaxed allowing people into the service who would never have been allowed in in the past.

Simply put the services are including the unfit, the criminal and the mentally unstable in and keeping them....well for awhile that is.
This is not just my opinion but comes from comment of top officers in the armed services.

Huston, we have a problem.

Now, here is something I bet everyone on this forum will agree on.

The current administrations treatment of returning veterans is beyond shameful. It is a national disgrace.

I could post stats and individual stories here that fill page after page along with statements from the Veterans Administration that show they are simply not doing the job they are legally and morally bound to do.

We, as a people owe veterans better and if we don't start providing the services and support promised these men and women and their families we as a society will pay the price.

We have already asked these men and women to pay the ultimate price in service of their country. Whether you support this or not. Make this Administration accountable dammit and care for those people who's lives have been forever altered!

madisonman's photo
Fri 08/22/08 11:13 AM
did you see that GI throw that puppy off of a cliff? that was some Nazi like behaviore

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