Topic: Why we are "god"
no photo
Mon 07/14/08 11:43 AM
My truth is the wonder and the joy of being.

flowerforyou waving :angel:

tribo's photo
Mon 07/14/08 12:13 PM
then - flowerforyou drinker :banana: biggrin smile2 :thumbsup: waving

AdventureBegins's photo
Mon 07/14/08 03:13 PM

I personally do not find any evidence that supports the suggestion of Quantum Physics supporting a notion that we are all one. Quantum Physics is not understood. The observations do not lend enough evidence to support why we observe that which we do.

Therefore, it is a incorrect assessment to suggest that it supports itself, let alone anything else.

Allow it to support itself, then we may be able to build upon it.

Until then... we know nothing but what we think we are observing. Seems more like psuedo-quantum twistics to me.

flowerforyou





Nice statement. If I understand a small bit of quantum stuff correctly the very act of observing, changes the observed phenomon.

Thus making it nigh unto impossible to actually measure/understand/control our universe.(for us at least)

no photo
Mon 07/14/08 03:22 PM


I personally do not find any evidence that supports the suggestion of Quantum Physics supporting a notion that we are all one. Quantum Physics is not understood. The observations do not lend enough evidence to support why we observe that which we do.

Therefore, it is a incorrect assessment to suggest that it supports itself, let alone anything else.

Allow it to support itself, then we may be able to build upon it.

Until then... we know nothing but what we think we are observing. Seems more like psuedo-quantum twistics to me.

flowerforyou





Nice statement. If I understand a small bit of quantum stuff correctly the very act of observing, changes the observed phenomon.

Thus making it nigh unto impossible to actually measure/understand/control our universe.(for us at least)



On the contrary, In a holographic universe there are no limits to the extent to which we can alter the fabric of reality.

An astonishing theory called the holographic principle holds that the universe is like a hologram: just as a trick of light allows a fully three-dimensional image to be recorded on a flat piece of film, our seemingly three-dimensional universe could be completely equivalent to alternative quantum fields and physical laws "painted" on a distant, vast surface.

The holographic paradigm also has implications for so-called hard sciences like biology. Keith Floyd, a psychologist at Virginia Intermont College, has pointed out that if the concreteness of reality is but a holographic illusion, it would no longer be true to say the brain produces consciousness.

Rather, it is consciousness that creates the appearance of the brain -- as well as the body and everything else around us we interpret as physical.

Such a turnabout in the way we view biological structures has caused researchers to point out that medicine and our understanding of the healing process could also be transformed by the holographic paradigm. If the apparent physical structure of the body is but a holographic projection of consciousness, it becomes clear that each of us is much more responsible for our health than current medical wisdom allows. What we now view as miraculous remissions of disease may actually be due to changes in consciousness which in turn effect changes in the hologram of the body. Similarly, controversial new healing techniques such as visualization may work so well because in the holographic domain of thought images are ultimately as real as "reality."

JB

AdventureBegins's photo
Mon 07/14/08 03:28 PM
Aye but if the foam is true than the number of possible universes exceeds the number of people that have ever or will ever exist.

Therefore you are god. I am god. each in our own universe. (but there is allways something greater)

Abracadabra's photo
Mon 07/14/08 03:37 PM

I personally do not find any evidence that supports the suggestion of Quantum Physics supporting a notion that we are all one. Quantum Physics is not understood. The observations do not lend enough evidence to support why we observe that which we do.


It's not necessary to understand quantum mechanics fully to know that there can be no definite boundaries between things, and that's all we need to know to know that all is one.

If there can be no definite boundaries between things, then there can be no true seperation of things. Thus all must necessarily be one.

Moreover, even General Relativity had given us hints to this before quantum mechanics confirmed it. Albert Einstein showed that matter and energy are the same thing and can be trasmuted into one another. He also showed us that time and space have a similar relationship and can also be transmuted into one another.

A woman by the name of Emmy Nother then came along and showed that Time and Energy are two sides of the same coin too! Thus there is only one thing, spacetime-energy/matter.

It's all the same stuff. And it's all conserved meaning that it can't be created or distroyed except by the quantum field itself which bring us full-circle back to quantum mechanics.

The real question though is that if all isn't one, then what are all these separate things? And where do they exist?

That's the other thing that people don't seem to realize about Einstein's General Relativity. In Newton's day everything was considered to exist "in space". But Einstein says no. We don't exist 'in space', we are a manifestation of spacetime.

This distinction might seem trival to a non-scientist, but mathematically it paramount, because it gives space and time substance, where in Newton's world they had not substance.

A better way to explain this might be through the use of the following analogies,...

In Newton's model of the universe, Space and Time were backdrops like the stage of a play. Then energy and matter were the players who played on this stage.

In Einstein's model of the universe there is no stage at all. All that exists are the actors. Spacetime, and Energy/matter.

And, of course, Emmy Nother showed that Time and Energy are two sides of the smae coin. So there is no stage, and there is only one player. The player is both actor and stage.

We may think that this is beyond human comprehension. And perhaps it is for laymen, but the point it that it all makes sense mathematically. And mathematics is something that some humans can indeed comprehend.

But just because they know something about how the stage and the actors work, they still have no clue what production company is behind the movie.

The thing that I don't truly understand is why someone would object to everything being one. What would be the benefit of that point of view?

What would be gained by thinking that everything is seperate and exists in it's own individual right independent from all else?

Seems to me that would be extremely problematic especially on a philosophical level.

What is gained by having everything seperate?


no photo
Mon 07/14/08 03:39 PM

Aye but if the foam is true than the number of possible universes exceeds the number of people that have ever or will ever exist.

Therefore you are god. I am god. each in our own universe. (but there is allways something greater)



drinker drinker drinker

Agreed.

tribo's photo
Mon 07/14/08 05:38 PM


I personally do not find any evidence that supports the suggestion of Quantum Physics supporting a notion that we are all one. Quantum Physics is not understood. The observations do not lend enough evidence to support why we observe that which we do.


It's not necessary to understand quantum mechanics fully to know that there can be no definite boundaries between things, and that's all we need to know to know that all is one.

If there can be no definite boundaries between things, then there can be no true seperation of things. Thus all must necessarily be one.

Moreover, even General Relativity had given us hints to this before quantum mechanics confirmed it. Albert Einstein showed that matter and energy are the same thing and can be trasmuted into one another. He also showed us that time and space have a similar relationship and can also be transmuted into one another.

A woman by the name of Emmy Nother then came along and showed that Time and Energy are two sides of the same coin too! Thus there is only one thing, spacetime-energy/matter.

It's all the same stuff. And it's all conserved meaning that it can't be created or distroyed except by the quantum field itself which bring us full-circle back to quantum mechanics.

The real question though is that if all isn't one, then what are all these separate things? And where do they exist?

That's the other thing that people don't seem to realize about Einstein's General Relativity. In Newton's day everything was considered to exist "in space". But Einstein says no. We don't exist 'in space', we are a manifestation of spacetime.

This distinction might seem trival to a non-scientist, but mathematically it paramount, because it gives space and time substance, where in Newton's world they had not substance.

A better way to explain this might be through the use of the following analogies,...

In Newton's model of the universe, Space and Time were backdrops like the stage of a play. Then energy and matter were the players who played on this stage.

In Einstein's model of the universe there is no stage at all. All that exists are the actors. Spacetime, and Energy/matter.

And, of course, Emmy Nother showed that Time and Energy are two sides of the smae coin. So there is no stage, and there is only one player. The player is both actor and stage.

We may think that this is beyond human comprehension. And perhaps it is for laymen, but the point it that it all makes sense mathematically. And mathematics is something that some humans can indeed comprehend.

But just because they know something about how the stage and the actors work, they still have no clue what production company is behind the movie.

The thing that I don't truly understand is why someone would object to everything being one. What would be the benefit of that point of view?

What would be gained by thinking that everything is seperate and exists in it's own individual right independent from all else?

Seems to me that would be extremely problematic especially on a philosophical level.

What is gained by having everything seperate?




man's desire to maintain self/ego - self preservation is the strongest drive we have and the hardest to do away with. Therefore the need for individuals to try or desire to maintain sense of ego about themselves.

no photo
Mon 07/14/08 06:57 PM
In my opinion (and my opinion does not matter) but I believe that we are all connected as one ~~and yet we are individuals and may remain individuals ~~if we so choose, after we leave this reality of space-time.

We can become more, and part of a larger conscious being, by combining with others, or we can individualize our different aspects and by dividing ourselves into many individuals and focusing on certain things we wish to experience or create.

None of these states of individualization or combining are permanent commitments. Some individuals prefer being part of a larger individual and some chose to wander.

There is no division of things on the quantum level. Atoms constantly come and go from your body and from all bodies and they enter other bodies. Every time you breathe in and out, atoms come and go from your body-universe.

Atoms, are said to be the building blocks of matter and they are largely composed of empty space. They are like tiny solar systems surrounded by their own field.

Our solar system is surrounded by its own force field, and as it travels through space to its new position in the galaxy, that force field deflects many things that come at it from outside.

I don't know the point of this post, so don't ask. LOL

JB





tribo's photo
Mon 07/14/08 07:11 PM

In my opinion (and my opinion does not matter) but I believe that we are all connected as one ~~and yet we are individuals and may remain individuals ~~if we so choose, after we leave this reality of space-time.

We can become more, and part of a larger conscious being, by combining with others, or we can individualize our different aspects and by dividing ourselves into many individuals and focusing on certain things we wish to experience or create.

None of these states of individualization or combining are permanent commitments. Some individuals prefer being part of a larger individual and some chose to wander.

There is no division of things on the quantum level. Atoms constantly come and go from your body and from all bodies and they enter other bodies. Every time you breathe in and out, atoms come and go from your body-universe.

Atoms, are said to be the building blocks of matter and they are largely composed of empty space. They are like tiny solar systems surrounded by their own field.

Our solar system is surrounded by its own force field, and as it travels through space to its new position in the galaxy, that force field deflects many things that come at it from outside.

I don't know the point of this post, so don't ask. LOL

JB







laugh laugh laugh did you nap or notlaugh

creativesoul's photo
Mon 07/14/08 08:36 PM
Edited by creativesoul on Mon 07/14/08 08:48 PM
So? What is your point?

Are you suggesting that a person ONLY thinks in words, or that a person who does not speak yet, (a toddler perhaps) does not think at all?


huh

I made the point... perhaps you missed it, you may want to re-read, or read this twice so that you do not miss it again...



Sorry for the temporary absence, I ask everyone to bear with me for a while...

:tongue:

To those who asked about my statement of thoughts being the unspoken language of the thinker...

I understand that people also mentally envision full mental pictures and the like... symbols, etc...

If one wishes to convey that thought to another person in order to explain the thought...

How do they do that? They speak in words, after translating their thoughts into words so that this can be done. Words can contain much more meaning within an individual than just a single definition... they also represent entire sets of memories, depending on the trigger which brings on the unconscious contents.

Anyone who knows different languages will find themselves thinking in the language of the place that they find themselves in at the moment.


Thoughts are unspoken language.


James, my friend...

Good to see you... flowerforyou

It's not necessary to understand quantum mechanics fully to know that there can be no definite boundaries between things, and that's all we need to know to know that all is one.


James, I would also love to believe that quantum mechanics proves the non-existence of true boundaries between matter...

It does not though.

As of this moment, it is merely an hypothesis, which is actually based upon an observation... not the other way around.

Make no mistake... I like the idea of nothing truly being separate, as much as anyone else...


Oh yeah...

Long time no see AB....

Great to see you also...

smokin

no photo
Mon 07/14/08 10:43 PM
Edited by Jeanniebean on Mon 07/14/08 10:47 PM
I made the point... perhaps you missed it, you may want to re-read, or read this twice so that you do not miss it again...


To those who asked about my statement of thoughts being the unspoken language of the thinker...

I understand that people also mentally envision full mental pictures and the like... symbols, etc...

If one wishes to convey that thought to another person in order to explain the thought...

How do they do that? They speak in words, after translating their thoughts into words so that this can be done. Words can contain much more meaning within an individual than just a single definition... they also represent entire sets of memories, depending on the trigger which brings on the unconscious contents.

Anyone who knows different languages will find themselves thinking in the language of the place that they find themselves in at the moment.

Thoughts are unspoken language.



So your point is that thoughts are unspoken language?

I don't see how that can be the case. Of course I have always understood language as being a communication between people. Unless people can read each other's minds, as in having telepathic communication, I don't see how thoughts can be called a language.

"If one wishes to convey that thought to another person in order to explain the thought..."


I am thinking that people don't need to "explain" their thoughts because nobody knows what their thoughts are, therefore there is no need to "explain" them.

I think I would have used the word "express" their thoughts, since their thoughts are unspoken and people can't read their minds.

And how do they do that? You conclude they do it with words.

That is one way to do it. But there are many other ways.

1. Body language
2. Pictures
3. Movies
4. Actions

So thoughts can't be a "language" unless they are expressed in some way. Unless you have a different definition of what a language is.

JB



no photo
Tue 07/15/08 08:04 AM
A person is not God in any way whatsoever .
All reality points to this .

no photo
Tue 07/15/08 08:47 AM

A person is not God in any way whatsoever .
All reality points to this .


Please explain what you mean by "all reality points to this."
How does all reality point to this? How do you define god? What is god to you?

no photo
Tue 07/15/08 10:25 AM


A person is not God in any way whatsoever .
All reality points to this .


Please explain what you mean by "all reality points to this."
How does all reality point to this? How do you define god? What is god to you?

Did you create me ?.
rofl rofl rofl rofl .

tribo's photo
Tue 07/15/08 12:18 PM



A person is not God in any way whatsoever .
All reality points to this .


Please explain what you mean by "all reality points to this."
How does all reality point to this? How do you define god? What is god to you?

Did you create me ?.
rofl rofl rofl rofl .



laugh laugh - no but if you keep it up she might "CRATE" you and ship you back - laugh laugh

no photo
Tue 07/15/08 12:23 PM




A person is not God in any way whatsoever .
All reality points to this .


Please explain what you mean by "all reality points to this."
How does all reality point to this? How do you define god? What is god to you?

Did you create me ?.
rofl rofl rofl rofl .



laugh laugh - no but if you keep it up she might "CRATE" you and ship you back - laugh laugh

Ship me where ?.laugh laugh laugh

tribo's photo
Tue 07/15/08 12:35 PM
Edited by tribo on Tue 07/15/08 12:43 PM





A person is not God in any way whatsoever .
All reality points to this .


Please explain what you mean by "all reality points to this."
How does all reality point to this? How do you define god? What is god to you?

Did you create me ?.
rofl rofl rofl rofl .



laugh laugh - no but if you keep it up she might "CRATE" you and ship you back - laugh laugh

Ship me where ?.laugh laugh laugh



what tongue2 got me???? goddess has so many universes and dimensions to choose from, you'll have to ask her. waving winking


no photo
Tue 07/15/08 02:54 PM



A person is not God in any way whatsoever .
All reality points to this .


Please explain what you mean by "all reality points to this."
How does all reality point to this? How do you define god? What is god to you?

Did you create me ?.
rofl rofl rofl rofl .


Please explain what you mean by "all reality points to this."
How does all reality point to this? How do you define god? What is god to you?

creativesoul's photo
Tue 07/15/08 08:57 PM
JB...

So your point is that thoughts are unspoken language?


Yes.

I don't see how that can be the case. Of course I have always understood language as being a communication between people. Unless people can read each other's minds, as in having telepathic communication, I don't see how thoughts can be called a language.


People are only one aspect when considering thoughts and language.



I am thinking that people don't need to "explain" their thoughts because nobody knows what their thoughts are, therefore there is no need to "explain" them.


The notion that "nobody knows what their thoughts are" is completely irrelevant.

I cannot think of a way to share thoughts without language.



I think I would have used the word "express" their thoughts, since their thoughts are unspoken and people can't read their minds.


That works as well... no problem. Again, the notion that thoughts are personal has nothing to do with the subject at hand.

And how do they do that? You conclude they do it with words.

That is one way to do it. But there are many other ways.

1. Body language
2. Pictures
3. Movies
4. Actions

So thoughts can't be a "language" unless they are expressed in some way. Unless you have a different definition of what a language is.


I agree that language is more than words, I can see where my first statement should have been written more concisely, I assume that we are beyond that at this point...

The above section which I put into bold type is completely false.

Thoughts, or should I say language, do/does not require expression to exist.

I fail to see your point here.

Are you simply on an agenda which has a goal of attempting to refute my claim that thoughts are unspoken language?

If so, ok, you do not have to agree... I have said what I had to share at this point, and it does not require agreement.

I just feel that the definition you have given several times of a thought being just "a wave" was and is far too broad a definition to support an entire concept such as the one which you suggest... that's all.