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| Topic: Is Atheism a religion? | |
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Edited by
Redykeulous
on
Thu 06/26/08 06:47 PM
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The OP asks a philosophical and even possibly scientific question. Are we born with a genetic predisposition to have a ‘belief’ in a supreme being? If we are born with an inherent quality for belief of this nature, then we MUST believe in something for it’s nearly impossible to deny an inherent quality, an inborn nature.
In that case atheism is a believe – it is a belief that opposes the inherent theist belief and replaces it with another "disbelief". BUT, if, however, there is no inborn, genetic, inherent quality that provides the predisposition to believe, to be a theist, then it becomes a chosen characteristic of those who do believe. That makes those who are atheist simply the control group, who have not been influenced by the beliefs of the theist. We hold no believe pertaining to god because we were not programmed to believe. Therefore, our minds are clear, concise and FREE and not beholding to the whims of any mystical supreme fairy tale being. So what would be your philosophy? |
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The OP asks a philosophical and even possibly scientific question. Are we born with a genetic predisposition to have a ‘belief’ in a supreme being? If we are born with an inherent quality for belief of this nature, then we MUST believe in something for it’s nearly impossible to deny an inherent quality, an inborn nature. In that case atheism is a believe – it is a belief that opposes the inherent theist belief and replaces it with another "disbelief". BUT, if, however, there is no inborn, genetic, inherent quality that provides the predisposition to believe, to be a theist, then it becomes a chosen characteristic of those who do believe. That makes those who are atheist simply the control group, who have not been influenced by the beliefs of the theist. We hold no believe pertaining to god because we were not programmed to believe. Therefore, our minds are clear, concise and FREE and not beholding to the whims of any mystical supreme fairy tale being. So what would be your philosophy?  I like yours, actually!
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I would say not a religion but a way of thinking....maybe to some a religion. I think you would have to ask them. Atheism = non beliefs of godsrmation of the nonexistence of gods Pantheism = believes that the trees are god, the mountain is god...that my dog spot is god. This is what came to me regarding this thread. Matthew 13 10 His disciples came and asked him, “Why do you use parables when you talk to the people?” 11 He replied, “You are permitted to understand the secrets[a] of the Kingdom of Heaven, but others are not. 12 To those who listen to my teaching, more understanding will be given, and they will have an abundance of knowledge. But for those who are not listening, even what little understanding they have will be taken away from them. 13 That is why I use these parables, For they look, but they don’t really see. They hear, but they don’t really listen or understand. 14 This fulfills the prophecy of Isaiah that says, ‘When you hear what I say, you will not understand. When you see what I do, you will not comprehend. 15 For the hearts of these people are hardened, and their ears cannot hear, and they have closed their eyes— so their eyes cannot see, and their ears cannot hear, and their hearts cannot understand, and they cannot turn to me and let me heal them.’ 16 “But blessed are your eyes, because they see; and your ears, because they hear. 17 I tell you the truth, many prophets and righteous people longed to see what you see, but they didn’t see it. And they longed to hear what you hear, but they didn’t hear it. Man wrote the bible in parables because it can fit into more than one scenerio, making it easier to pass off as some divine work of revelation. All religions must claim to have some kind of divine knowledge that is above the normal for people to believe they are superior and therefore special. Otherwise all religions would fail. My opinion of course. imo of course......did you not read why Jesus spoke in parables......not to make it fit more scenerio's.... 10 His disciples came and asked him, “Why do you use parables when you talk to the people?” 11 He replied, “You are permitted to understand the secrets[a] of the Kingdom of Heaven, but others are not. 12 To those who listen to my teaching, more understanding will be given, and they will have an abundance of knowledge. But for those who are not listening, even what little understanding they have will be taken away from them. 13 That is why I use these parables, Now for me pretty clear......for you not so....hmmmmmmm   
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The OP asks a philosophical and even possibly scientific question. Are we born with a genetic predisposition to have a ‘belief’ in a supreme being? If we are born with an inherent quality for belief of this nature, then we MUST believe in something for it’s nearly impossible to deny an inherent quality, an inborn nature. In that case atheism is a believe – it is a belief that opposes the inherent theist belief and replaces it with another "disbelief". BUT, if, however, there is no inborn, genetic, inherent quality that provides the predisposition to believe, to be a theist, then it becomes a chosen characteristic of those who do believe. That makes those who are atheist simply the control group, who have not been influenced by the beliefs of the theist. We hold no believe pertaining to god because we were not programmed to believe. Therefore, our minds are clear, concise and FREE and not beholding to the whims of any mystical supreme fairy tale being. So what would be your philosophy? I believe some people are followers and some leaders. Especially in the case, like mine, of being raised in a religious environment, and ending up a non believer. I am not prone to following the crowd, why, because I have questions the "crowd" cannot answer. The answers they have are "you will not know until you meet god", or " his will is not always known", or "we are not meant to know his plan". But in contradiction, this all loving all forgiving "god" will do terrible things, hurricanes, tornadoes, typhoons, disease, etc.... taking lives of innocent children who have done nothing to deserve this fate. The answer is always, "god works in mysterious ways". What this tells me is if there is a god, we are but playthings for him. Ants in the antfarm of deviant child. There is no logic to the WHOLE concept of this all powerful being who punishes the innocent. This was the beginning of my freedom. This concept of god was man made for many purposes, back in the day gods or a god explained the unexplainable, later it was for control of us. I am unburdened from this contradictory man made concept of "big brother" who illicits fear of burning you for eternity if you do not follow his "loving" message. Losing this burden has made my life so much more of a spiritual journey. Just my experience of course. |
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The OP asks a philosophical and even possibly scientific question. Are we born with a genetic predisposition to have a ‘belief’ in a supreme being? If we are born with an inherent quality for belief of this nature, then we MUST believe in something for it’s nearly impossible to deny an inherent quality, an inborn nature. In that case atheism is a believe – it is a belief that opposes the inherent theist belief and replaces it with another "disbelief". BUT, if, however, there is no inborn, genetic, inherent quality that provides the predisposition to believe, to be a theist, then it becomes a chosen characteristic of those who do believe. That makes those who are atheist simply the control group, who have not been influenced by the beliefs of the theist. We hold no believe pertaining to god because we were not programmed to believe. Therefore, our minds are clear, concise and FREE and not beholding to the whims of any mystical supreme fairy tale being. So what would be your philosophy? I believe some people are followers and some leaders. Especially in the case, like mine, of being raised in a religious environment, and ending up a non believer. I am not prone to following the crowd, why, because I have questions the "crowd" cannot answer. The answers they have are "you will not know until you meet god", or " his will is not always known", or "we are not meant to know his plan". But in contradiction, this all loving all forgiving "god" will do terrible things, hurricanes, tornadoes, typhoons, disease, etc.... taking lives of innocent children who have done nothing to deserve this fate. The answer is always, "god works in mysterious ways". What this tells me is if there is a god, we are but playthings for him. Ants in the antfarm of deviant child. There is no logic to the WHOLE concept of this all powerful being who punishes the innocent. This was the beginning of my freedom. This concept of god was man made for many purposes, back in the day gods or a god explained the unexplainable, later it was for control of us. I am unburdened from this contradictory man made concept of "big brother" who illicits fear of burning you for eternity if you do not follow his "loving" message. Losing this burden has made my life so much more of a spiritual journey. Just my experience of course. I share your thoughts in this. Thank you very much for sharing this. 
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The OP asks a philosophical and even possibly scientific question. Are we born with a genetic predisposition to have a ‘belief’ in a supreme being? If we are born with an inherent quality for belief of this nature, then we MUST believe in something for it’s nearly impossible to deny an inherent quality, an inborn nature. In that case atheism is a believe – it is a belief that opposes the inherent theist belief and replaces it with another "disbelief". BUT, if, however, there is no inborn, genetic, inherent quality that provides the predisposition to believe, to be a theist, then it becomes a chosen characteristic of those who do believe. That makes those who are atheist simply the control group, who have not been influenced by the beliefs of the theist. We hold no believe pertaining to god because we were not programmed to believe. Therefore, our minds are clear, concise and FREE and not beholding to the whims of any mystical supreme fairy tale being. So what would be your philosophy? I believe some people are followers and some leaders. Especially in the case, like mine, of being raised in a religious environment, and ending up a non believer. I am not prone to following the crowd, why, because I have questions the "crowd" cannot answer. The answers they have are "you will not know until you meet god", or " his will is not always known", or "we are not meant to know his plan". But in contradiction, this all loving all forgiving "god" will do terrible things, hurricanes, tornadoes, typhoons, disease, etc.... taking lives of innocent children who have done nothing to deserve this fate. The answer is always, "god works in mysterious ways". What this tells me is if there is a god, we are but playthings for him. Ants in the antfarm of deviant child. There is no logic to the WHOLE concept of this all powerful being who punishes the innocent. This was the beginning of my freedom. This concept of god was man made for many purposes, back in the day gods or a god explained the unexplainable, later it was for control of us. I am unburdened from this contradictory man made concept of "big brother" who illicits fear of burning you for eternity if you do not follow his "loving" message. Losing this burden has made my life so much more of a spiritual journey. Just my experience of course. I agree with you wholeheartedly! My entire life was the same. Drilled with guilt and no real answers to questions I had. None of it made sense or was logical at all. |
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The OP asks a philosophical and even possibly scientific question. Are we born with a genetic predisposition to have a ‘belief’ in a supreme being? If we are born with an inherent quality for belief of this nature, then we MUST believe in something for it’s nearly impossible to deny an inherent quality, an inborn nature. In that case atheism is a believe – it is a belief that opposes the inherent theist belief and replaces it with another "disbelief". BUT, if, however, there is no inborn, genetic, inherent quality that provides the predisposition to believe, to be a theist, then it becomes a chosen characteristic of those who do believe. That makes those who are atheist simply the control group, who have not been influenced by the beliefs of the theist. We hold no believe pertaining to god because we were not programmed to believe. Therefore, our minds are clear, concise and FREE and not beholding to the whims of any mystical supreme fairy tale being. So what would be your philosophy? Robert Pirsig's observation in Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance is that "When one person suffers from a delusion it is called insanity. When many people suffer from a delusion it is called religion." I have just finished reading "The God Delusion" by Richard Dawkins. It took me bloody ages to wade through it, as some of the concepts were very complex. But in essence, here is a synopsis from Wiki ... The book contains ten chapters. The first few build a case that there is no God, while the rest discuss religion and morality. It is dedicated to the memory of Dawkins' late friend Douglas Adams,[11] whom Dawkins quotes as having said, "isn't it enough to see that a garden is beautiful without having to believe that there are fairies at the bottom of it too?" Dawkins writes that The God Delusion contains four "consciousness-raising" messages: * Atheists can be happy, balanced, moral, and intellectually fulfilled. * Natural selection and similar scientific theories are superior to a "God hypothesis" — the illusion of intelligent design — in explaining the living world and the cosmos. * Children should not be labelled by their parents' religion. Terms like "Catholic child" or "Muslim child" should make people flinch. * Atheists should be proud, not apologetic, because atheism is evidence of a healthy, independent mind Whilst it is a weighty tome, it does make some very good arguments as to why our God-Squad refuse to move away from their sheep-mentality, and actually question their existence outside of their imaginary friend. |
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Robert Pirsig's observation in Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance is that "When one person suffers from a delusion it is called insanity. When many people suffer from a delusion it is called religion."
I have just finished reading "The God Delusion" by Richard Dawkins. It took me bloody ages to wade through it, as some of the concepts were very complex. Believe it or not, BOTH are on my "to read" list, just waiting for the half-price book store and my wallet to agree on a price. 
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The OP asks a philosophical and even possibly scientific question. Are we born with a genetic predisposition to have a ‘belief’ in a supreme being? If we are born with an inherent quality for belief of this nature, then we MUST believe in something for it’s nearly impossible to deny an inherent quality, an inborn nature. In that case atheism is a believe – it is a belief that opposes the inherent theist belief and replaces it with another "disbelief". BUT, if, however, there is no inborn, genetic, inherent quality that provides the predisposition to believe, to be a theist, then it becomes a chosen characteristic of those who do believe. That makes those who are atheist simply the control group, who have not been influenced by the beliefs of the theist. We hold no believe pertaining to god because we were not programmed to believe. Therefore, our minds are clear, concise and FREE and not beholding to the whims of any mystical supreme fairy tale being. So what would be your philosophy? Robert Pirsig's observation in Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance is that "When one person suffers from a delusion it is called insanity. When many people suffer from a delusion it is called religion." I have just finished reading "The God Delusion" by Richard Dawkins. It took me bloody ages to wade through it, as some of the concepts were very complex. But in essence, here is a synopsis from Wiki ... The book contains ten chapters. The first few build a case that there is no God, while the rest discuss religion and morality. It is dedicated to the memory of Dawkins' late friend Douglas Adams,[11] whom Dawkins quotes as having said, "isn't it enough to see that a garden is beautiful without having to believe that there are fairies at the bottom of it too?" Dawkins writes that The God Delusion contains four "consciousness-raising" messages: * Atheists can be happy, balanced, moral, and intellectually fulfilled. * Natural selection and similar scientific theories are superior to a "God hypothesis" — the illusion of intelligent design — in explaining the living world and the cosmos. * Children should not be labelled by their parents' religion. Terms like "Catholic child" or "Muslim child" should make people flinch. * Atheists should be proud, not apologetic, because atheism is evidence of a healthy, independent mind Whilst it is a weighty tome, it does make some very good arguments as to why our God-Squad refuse to move away from their sheep-mentality, and actually question their existence outside of their imaginary friend. Thank you for the valuable information! I am looking on Amazon.com now to order. |
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Is this always the only thing that you people can say....that "The Bible" was written by man. And the 10 commandments were written by God....but did anyone listen there either....nope. And honestly do you think God would let a book written by man to be around for as long as it has...if it was just "written by man" also understand that for me, myself and I.
The Bible to me is the infallible, inspired, inherent Word of the Living God. I believe each and every word from Genesis to Revelation, cover to cover. It is the owners manual for human being-a must read. The Uniqueness of the Bible The internal evidence test reveals the Bible's amazing consistency. The Bible was written by over 40 authors, in 3 languages, on 3 continents, over a span of 1,500 years, and covers hundreds of controversial subjects. Yet, the authors all spoke with agreement; there are no contradictions. [5] From Genesis to Revelation, there is one unfolding story--God's redemption of mankind. Bible Prophecy The external and internal evidence tests do not prove the Bible's inspiration, but do reveal that the objective evidence is consistent with and supports the Bible's claims to be a divine book (because any book from God that claims to be inerrant should be reliable and consistent with itself). Bible prophecy, however, can only be explained by divine revelation and inspiration. There are hundreds of specific prophecies in the Bible which have been literally fulfilled, in many cases centuries after the completion of the Bible. Any attempt to late-date these prophecies is impossible--there is a copy of every Old Testament book but one from before 150 BC, and hundreds of these prophecies were not fulfilled until centuries later. Some prophecies fulfilled by Jesus are Micah 5:2, which revealed where He would be born; Isaiah 53 detailed His suffering, work at the cross, and resurrection; Psalm 22 is striking prophecy of the crucifixion. The historical evidence shows that the Bible can be trusted. The commonly held idea that the Bible is unreliable or "just a myth" is unfounded. The internal evidence reveals the uniqueness of the Bible, a uniqueness which would be difficult to explain if it was just a human book. These two tests give credibility to the Bible's internal claims to be the word of God. The testimony of predictive prophecy, however, takes us a step further and confirms the Bible's claims to be inspired by God. Finally, the Bible has not been changed through the ages. Control me......are you serious....no one controls me I am a believer because of things I was shown.....Things that I could no longer deny He is. And so now I would not or could not listen to the Lord in all aspects of my life...and if you call this control....then hey ok....because of the Lord in my life it is sweet........And fear is another I read all the time....I do not Fear the Lord my God.....never have, never will......so you can take that theory and trash it. And here again you speak of "unknown secrets" there are no secrets....All can know who seek the Lord & Savior....But he can't make you see and he can't make you seek....that is why God gave us freewill.....Free to come to him....or not. Your choice...And like I said I "Choose" because of things He has showm me....not because of growing up as a Christian or for sure not out of some lame fear you speak of. And as God is, was, and always will be.....neither will him or his followers be going anywhere anytime soon......except when Christ comes to claim his Kingdom My opinion of course. |
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Edited by
paul40
on
Fri 06/27/08 07:48 AM
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I believe some people are followers and some leaders. Especially in the case, like mine, of being raised in a religious environment, and ending up a non believer. I am not prone to following the crowd, why, because I have questions the "crowd" cannot answer. The answers they have are "you will not know until you meet god", or " his will is not always known", or "we are not meant to know his plan". But in contradiction, this all loving all forgiving "god" will do terrible things, hurricanes, tornadoes, typhoons, disease, etc.... taking lives of innocent children who have done nothing to deserve this fate. The answer is always, "god works in mysterious ways". What this tells me is if there is a god, we are but playthings for him. Ants in the antfarm of deviant child. There is no logic to the WHOLE concept of this all powerful being who punishes the innocent. This was the beginning of my freedom. This concept of god was man made for many purposes, back in the day gods or a god explained the unexplainable, later it was for control of us. I am unburdened from this contradictory man made concept of "big brother" who illicits fear of burning you for eternity if you do not follow his "loving" message. Losing this burden has made my life so much more of a spiritual journey. Just my experience of course. Well thought and well followed .    .
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Atheists are free minded people who obey logic ,
evidence , and proof . They are free and owe nothing to anyone and no one owes them anything . Religious people are the slaves of their beliefs and depend on what others think for them . Atheism was not , is not and will not be a religion . NNnnnoooo!!!! Please don't tell me you -truly- believe this, as stated. Just about -everybody- is a slave to some set of beliefs. I don't know anyone over the age of 4 who isn't. MANY atheists do NOT 'obey logic, evidence, and proof'. Many atheists have purely emotional reasons for their position, and are completely irrational in their defense of their position. |
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To answer the first post:
Atheism is NOT a religion. Many theists use this claim to try to create a line of reasoning based on false premises, to lead to some foregone pro-theist conclusion. Its simply not true. HOWEVER, some atheists individuals participate in meme-propagation processes nearly identical to those in which theists participate. There are religion-like processes in some atheists communities. This does not make atheism a religion; it makes those individual atheists somewhat 'religious' in their atheism. |
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I don't know any atheists who "believe" God (take your pick, there are plenty) does not exist. All the atheists I know simply do not believe God does exist.
I "believe" that the God Zeus does not exist. |
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Therefore, our minds are clear, concise and FREE and not beholding to the whims of any mystical supreme fairy tale being Red, There are SO MANY ways our minds are shackled. Even if it -were- true that atheists have one less shackle than theists.... thats a far cry from having a free mind. What other whims are we beholden to? What other beliefs have we integrated deeply into our worldview to the point where it becomes part of our identity? |
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* Atheists can be happy, balanced, moral, and intellectually fulfilled.
Belushi, Thanks for posting that excerpt. As a child, when reading definitions, I discovered that my beliefs met the definition of 'atheist'. Then I discovered that many people think 'atheists' were inherently less ethical than other people, which baffled me because I saw (some!) Christians thinking they could continue to do wrong as long as they asked for forgiveness, and atheists generally seemed more thoughtful and premeditative in their choices. Anyway, its simply absurd to think that atheists are inherently less moral than theists...yet so many theists seem to believe this. |
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Here is what I gather. What do you think Atheism is? "Atheism is a religion", for some strange reason, is often used by theists to criticise non-believers. A couple of examples from my email and guestbook: "Do you have a belief that atheism is true? If no, then you're lying, if yes, then you are acting on faith. If you don't believe in God, you must believe in something or someone else. An atheist doesn't simply lack positive belief in God. The atheist has positive belief in the non-existence of God." "The Religion of Atheism is for the totally unrational person, which is why Atheists account for less that 10% of the population. There are Ulterior Motives to Atheism, namely : Admitting the obvious of an INtelligent Creator introduces accountability and someone who is bigger and more important than oneself ...and, it impedes on the present less than desirable and/or immoral (incl. sexually, in most cases) lifestyle that the Atheist has chosen for himself. Both of these can be summarized by Pride." It seems odd for a follower of a faith to try to attack atheism by saying it is also a faith. I think the reasoning is that if atheism is a faith or religion, then atheists have no cause to criticise other faiths or religions. One flaw in this argument is that if atheism were indeed a religion, then theists would have no reason to criticise atheism being taught in schools as part of religious education, or even the setting up of atheist-run schools alongside Baptist, Catholic and Muslim schools. Somehow, I think voices may be raised in protest should that happen. =) Alternatively, the idea is that atheists are hypocrites for attacking the faithful when atheism itself is a result of faith. However, the big problem is this : ATHEISM IS NOT A RELIGION OR A FAITH! Atheism, by definition, is the absence of theism. If you cannot say "I believe in a Deity/God/Supreme Being" then you are an atheist. If you are not a theist, then you are an atheist. As mentioned in the Introduction page, there is a subtle but important difference between "believing there is no God", and "not believing there is a God". The first is a belief, the second is a lack of that belief. I don't know any atheists who "believe" God (take your pick, there are plenty) does not exist. All the atheists I know simply do not believe God does exist. There is a big difference between positively believing that a thing does not exist, and simply lacking belief in it's existence. In many cases, atheists will say "That God does not exist", not because they choose to do so, but because, from the description of the God, it cannot exist due to contradictory attributes. In the same way that a square circle cannot (and therefore does not) exist, a God defined as (for example) all-knowing, yet cannot see into the future, cannot and does not exist because the definition is self-contradictory. If you describe your God with self-contradicting attributes which make it logically impossible, then I may safely say that such a thing does not exist as described. This is not faith - this is reason. If someone asked you about unicorns, would you say "I believe there are no unicorns", or would it be more honest to say "I do not believe in unicorns"? These are two different answers. Nobody disbelieves in unicorns purely as a matter of personal faith. Again, apply the same reasoning to the Gods of other religions. Example : if you are a Christian, do you believe the Hindu God Ganesh does not exist? Or do you not believe in Ganesh? If you believe that unicorns do not exist, then may I say that you a member of the "No unicorns" religion? Is it a matter of faith that unicorns do not exist? Can I come along to your non-unicorn church with you tomorrow? If you are a Christian, do you believe Ganesh does not exist? Why, then you must be a devout follower of the "No Ganesh" faith! Do you see where this is going? [ Sarcasm may be the lowest form of wit, but it's excellent for getting a point across. If me not believing in your God is a faith, then you not believing in other Gods is an equal faith. How many Christians do you know who would say they do not believe in other Gods as a matter of faith? If my atheism with respect to your deity is a religion, then your atheism with respect to other deities is also a religion. How does atheism differ from religion and faith? Let me count the ways... The following is usually yes for theists and no for atheists. Belief in God(s) Prayer Churches / temples Holy Book / Scripture Priests / religious leaders Belief in supernatural (including angels / devils) Miracles Afterlife Holy wars Heaven / Hell Lifestyle restrictions (dress, diet, marriage etc. etc.) Belief without evidence (faith as a virtue) Belief despite conflicting evidence Supernatural origins of universe and / or humans Murderous fundamentalist extremists Annoying street / doorstep preachers The soul Regular ceremonies / acts of worship Sin Blasphemy We are God's chosen people Atheism is neither religion nor faith, but the happy freedom from them. Declaring it to be otherwise, sadly, will not make it so. Would you agree? I don't know if atheism is a religion or not. But I have noticed that quite a few atheists spend a good bit of time in this religeon forum. |
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* Atheists can be happy, balanced, moral, and intellectually fulfilled.
Belushi, Thanks for posting that excerpt. As a child, when reading definitions, I discovered that my beliefs met the definition of 'atheist'. Then I discovered that many people think 'atheists' were inherently less ethical than other people, which baffled me because I saw (some!) Christians thinking they could continue to do wrong as long as they asked for forgiveness, and atheists generally seemed more thoughtful and premeditative in their choices. Anyway, its simply absurd to think that atheists are inherently less moral than theists...yet so many theists seem to believe this. A great point you bring her sir! I am glad you stated this for many think atheists are bad people for not believing in a higher power. I don't agree with this of course. |
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I don't know if atheism is a religion or not. But I have noticed that quite a few atheists spend a good bit of time in this religeon forum. Atheists spend lots of time in religion threads to observe religious fanatics on how far they can go in following others ideas and preaching . |
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I don't know if atheism is a religion or not. But I have noticed that quite a few atheists spend a good bit of time in this religeon forum. Atheists spend lots of time in religion threads to observe religious fanatics on how far they can go in following others ideas and preaching . I personally come on because I like a good debate! There are no definitive answers to any of these questions. I have a thirsty mind and love to ponder these things. |
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