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Topic: Is Atheism a religion?
smiless Joined Wed 09/26/07 Posts: 13765	Thu 06/26/08 04:27 PM
Here is what I gather. What do you think Atheism is? "Atheism is a religion", for some strange reason, is often used by theists to criticise non-believers. A couple of examples from my email and guestbook: "Do you have a belief that atheism is true? If no, then you're lying, if yes, then you are acting on faith. If you don't believe in God, you must believe in something or someone else. An atheist doesn't simply lack positive belief in God. The atheist has positive belief in the non-existence of God." "The Religion of Atheism is for the totally unrational person, which is why Atheists account for less that 10% of the population. There are Ulterior Motives to Atheism, namely : Admitting the obvious of an INtelligent Creator introduces accountability and someone who is bigger and more important than oneself ...and, it impedes on the present less than desirable and/or immoral (incl. sexually, in most cases) lifestyle that the Atheist has chosen for himself. Both of these can be summarized by Pride." It seems odd for a follower of a faith to try to attack atheism by saying it is also a faith. I think the reasoning is that if atheism is a faith or religion, then atheists have no cause to criticise other faiths or religions. One flaw in this argument is that if atheism were indeed a religion, then theists would have no reason to criticise atheism being taught in schools as part of religious education, or even the setting up of atheist-run schools alongside Baptist, Catholic and Muslim schools. Somehow, I think voices may be raised in protest should that happen. =) Alternatively, the idea is that atheists are hypocrites for attacking the faithful when atheism itself is a result of faith. However, the big problem is this : ATHEISM IS NOT A RELIGION OR A FAITH! Atheism, by definition, is the absence of theism. If you cannot say "I believe in a Deity/God/Supreme Being" then you are an atheist. If you are not a theist, then you are an atheist. As mentioned in the Introduction page, there is a subtle but important difference between "believing there is no God", and "not believing there is a God". The first is a belief, the second is a lack of that belief. I don't know any atheists who "believe" God (take your pick, there are plenty) does not exist. All the atheists I know simply do not believe God does exist. There is a big difference between positively believing that a thing does not exist, and simply lacking belief in it's existence. In many cases, atheists will say "That God does not exist", not because they choose to do so, but because, from the description of the God, it cannot exist due to contradictory attributes. In the same way that a square circle cannot (and therefore does not) exist, a God defined as (for example) all-knowing, yet cannot see into the future, cannot and does not exist because the definition is self-contradictory. If you describe your God with self-contradicting attributes which make it logically impossible, then I may safely say that such a thing does not exist as described. This is not faith - this is reason. If someone asked you about unicorns, would you say "I believe there are no unicorns", or would it be more honest to say "I do not believe in unicorns"? These are two different answers. Nobody disbelieves in unicorns purely as a matter of personal faith. Again, apply the same reasoning to the Gods of other religions. Example : if you are a Christian, do you believe the Hindu God Ganesh does not exist? Or do you not believe in Ganesh? If you believe that unicorns do not exist, then may I say that you a member of the "No unicorns" religion? Is it a matter of faith that unicorns do not exist? Can I come along to your non-unicorn church with you tomorrow? If you are a Christian, do you believe Ganesh does not exist? Why, then you must be a devout follower of the "No Ganesh" faith! Do you see where this is going? [ Sarcasm may be the lowest form of wit, but it's excellent for getting a point across. If me not believing in your God is a faith, then you not believing in other Gods is an equal faith. How many Christians do you know who would say they do not believe in other Gods as a matter of faith? If my atheism with respect to your deity is a religion, then your atheism with respect to other deities is also a religion. How does atheism differ from religion and faith? Let me count the ways... The following is usually yes for theists and no for atheists. Belief in God(s) Prayer Churches / temples Holy Book / Scripture Priests / religious leaders Belief in supernatural (including angels / devils) Miracles Afterlife Holy wars Heaven / Hell Lifestyle restrictions (dress, diet, marriage etc. etc.) Belief without evidence (faith as a virtue) Belief despite conflicting evidence Supernatural origins of universe and / or humans Murderous fundamentalist extremists Annoying street / doorstep preachers The soul Regular ceremonies / acts of worship Sin Blasphemy We are God's chosen people Atheism is neither religion nor faith, but the happy freedom from them. Declaring it to be otherwise, sadly, will not make it so. Would you agree?

Dragoness Joined Wed 10/17/07 Posts: 23320	Thu 06/26/08 04:30 PM
nope, atheism is not a religion or a faith because there is no unseen, unknown, belief in that arena.

feralcatlady Joined Mon 10/08/07 Posts: 35491	Thu 06/26/08 04:35 PM Edited by feralcatlady on Thu 06/26/08 04:39 PM
I would say not a religion but a way of thinking....maybe to some a religion. I think you would have to ask them. Atheism = non beliefs of godsrmation of the nonexistence of gods Pantheism = believes that the trees are god, the mountain is god...that my dog spot is god. This is what came to me regarding this thread. Matthew 13 10 His disciples came and asked him, “Why do you use parables when you talk to the people?” 11 He replied, “You are permitted to understand the secrets[a] of the Kingdom of Heaven, but others are not. 12 To those who listen to my teaching, more understanding will be given, and they will have an abundance of knowledge. But for those who are not listening, even what little understanding they have will be taken away from them. 13 That is why I use these parables, For they look, but they don’t really see. They hear, but they don’t really listen or understand. 14 This fulfills the prophecy of Isaiah that says, ‘When you hear what I say, you will not understand. When you see what I do, you will not comprehend. 15 For the hearts of these people are hardened, and their ears cannot hear, and they have closed their eyes— so their eyes cannot see, and their ears cannot hear, and their hearts cannot understand, and they cannot turn to me and let me heal them.’ 16 “But blessed are your eyes, because they see; and your ears, because they hear. 17 I tell you the truth, many prophets and righteous people longed to see what you see, but they didn’t see it. And they longed to hear what you hear, but they didn’t hear it.

sam53 Joined Wed 03/12/08 Posts: 2073	Thu 06/26/08 04:41 PM Edited by sam53 on Thu 06/26/08 04:42 PM
Absolutely not . Religion is that crap where you have to be used by certain people and support them ....etc.

Dragoness Joined Wed 10/17/07 Posts: 23320	Thu 06/26/08 04:42 PM
I would say not a religion but a way of thinking....maybe to some a religion. I think you would have to ask them. Atheism = non beliefs of godsrmation of the nonexistence of gods Pantheism = believes that the trees are god, the mountain is god...that my dog spot is god. This is what came to me regarding this thread. Matthew 13 10 His disciples came and asked him, “Why do you use parables when you talk to the people?” 11 He replied, “You are permitted to understand the secrets[a] of the Kingdom of Heaven, but others are not. 12 To those who listen to my teaching, more understanding will be given, and they will have an abundance of knowledge. But for those who are not listening, even what little understanding they have will be taken away from them. 13 That is why I use these parables, For they look, but they don’t really see. They hear, but they don’t really listen or understand. 14 This fulfills the prophecy of Isaiah that says, ‘When you hear what I say, you will not understand. When you see what I do, you will not comprehend. 15 For the hearts of these people are hardened, and their ears cannot hear, and they have closed their eyes— so their eyes cannot see, and their ears cannot hear, and their hearts cannot understand, and they cannot turn to me and let me heal them.’ 16 “But blessed are your eyes, because they see; and your ears, because they hear. 17 I tell you the truth, many prophets and righteous people longed to see what you see, but they didn’t see it. And they longed to hear what you hear, but they didn’t hear it. Man wrote the bible in parables because it can fit into more than one scenerio, making it easier to pass off as some divine work of revelation. All religions must claim to have some kind of divine knowledge that is above the normal for people to believe they are superior and therefore special. Otherwise all religions would fail. My opinion of course.

Max_Darkling Joined Sat 03/29/08 Posts: 1166	Thu 06/26/08 04:44 PM Edited by Max_Darkling on Thu 06/26/08 05:01 PM
no not a religion

feralcatlady Joined Mon 10/08/07 Posts: 35491	Thu 06/26/08 04:46 PM
I would say not a religion but a way of thinking....maybe to some a religion. I think you would have to ask them. Atheism = non beliefs of godsrmation of the nonexistence of gods Pantheism = believes that the trees are god, the mountain is god...that my dog spot is god. This is what came to me regarding this thread. Matthew 13 10 His disciples came and asked him, “Why do you use parables when you talk to the people?” 11 He replied, “You are permitted to understand the secrets[a] of the Kingdom of Heaven, but others are not. 12 To those who listen to my teaching, more understanding will be given, and they will have an abundance of knowledge. But for those who are not listening, even what little understanding they have will be taken away from them. 13 That is why I use these parables, For they look, but they don’t really see. They hear, but they don’t really listen or understand. 14 This fulfills the prophecy of Isaiah that says, ‘When you hear what I say, you will not understand. When you see what I do, you will not comprehend. 15 For the hearts of these people are hardened, and their ears cannot hear, and they have closed their eyes— so their eyes cannot see, and their ears cannot hear, and their hearts cannot understand, and they cannot turn to me and let me heal them.’ 16 “But blessed are your eyes, because they see; and your ears, because they hear. 17 I tell you the truth, many prophets and righteous people longed to see what you see, but they didn’t see it. And they longed to hear what you hear, but they didn’t hear it. Man wrote the bible in parables because it can fit into more than one scenerio, making it easier to pass off as some divine work of revelation. All religions must claim to have some kind of divine knowledge that is above the normal for people to believe they are superior and therefore special. Otherwise all religions would fail. My opinion of course. imo of course......did you not read why Jesus spoke in parables......not to make it fit more scenerio's.... 10 His disciples came and asked him, “Why do you use parables when you talk to the people?” 11 He replied, “You are permitted to understand the secrets[a] of the Kingdom of Heaven, but others are not. 12 To those who listen to my teaching, more understanding will be given, and they will have an abundance of knowledge. But for those who are not listening, even what little understanding they have will be taken away from them. 13 That is why I use these parables, Now for me pretty clear......for you not so....hmmmmmmm

Dragoness Joined Wed 10/17/07 Posts: 23320	Thu 06/26/08 04:53 PM
I would say not a religion but a way of thinking....maybe to some a religion. I think you would have to ask them. Atheism = non beliefs of godsrmation of the nonexistence of gods Pantheism = believes that the trees are god, the mountain is god...that my dog spot is god. This is what came to me regarding this thread. Matthew 13 10 His disciples came and asked him, “Why do you use parables when you talk to the people?” 11 He replied, “You are permitted to understand the secrets[a] of the Kingdom of Heaven, but others are not. 12 To those who listen to my teaching, more understanding will be given, and they will have an abundance of knowledge. But for those who are not listening, even what little understanding they have will be taken away from them. 13 That is why I use these parables, For they look, but they don’t really see. They hear, but they don’t really listen or understand. 14 This fulfills the prophecy of Isaiah that says, ‘When you hear what I say, you will not understand. When you see what I do, you will not comprehend. 15 For the hearts of these people are hardened, and their ears cannot hear, and they have closed their eyes— so their eyes cannot see, and their ears cannot hear, and their hearts cannot understand, and they cannot turn to me and let me heal them.’ 16 “But blessed are your eyes, because they see; and your ears, because they hear. 17 I tell you the truth, many prophets and righteous people longed to see what you see, but they didn’t see it. And they longed to hear what you hear, but they didn’t hear it. Man wrote the bible in parables because it can fit into more than one scenerio, making it easier to pass off as some divine work of revelation. All religions must claim to have some kind of divine knowledge that is above the normal for people to believe they are superior and therefore special. Otherwise all religions would fail. My opinion of course. imo of course......did you not read why Jesus spoke in parables......not to make it fit more scenerio's.... 10 His disciples came and asked him, “Why do you use parables when you talk to the people?” 11 He replied, “You are permitted to understand the secrets[a] of the Kingdom of Heaven, but others are not. 12 To those who listen to my teaching, more understanding will be given, and they will have an abundance of knowledge. But for those who are not listening, even what little understanding they have will be taken away from them. 13 That is why I use these parables, Now for me pretty clear......for you not so....hmmmmmmm No offense here of course, but I read it perfectly and if I gave my view you would probably be offended, I can tell already, so I will just say, people see what they WANT to see in the bible, and I will leave it at that. Just my opinion of course

Max_Darkling Joined Sat 03/29/08 Posts: 1166	Thu 06/26/08 04:56 PM Edited by Max_Darkling on Thu 06/26/08 05:05 PM
Absolutely not . Religion is that crap where you have to be used by certain people and support them ....etc. And once again Someone came in. Not to answer the question But to slam religion and insult people

feralcatlady Joined Mon 10/08/07 Posts: 35491	Thu 06/26/08 05:00 PM
Man wrote the bible in parables because it can fit into more than one scenerio, making it easier to pass off as some divine work of revelation. All religions must claim to have some kind of divine knowledge that is above the normal for people to believe they are superior and therefore special. Otherwise all religions would fail. My opinion of course. I am not at all mad.....I would just like once when people say the above stuff to prove what they mean....And if anyone and I mean anyone thinks or believes that they are superior for what they believe......oh so so so very sad....

sam53 Joined Wed 03/12/08 Posts: 2073	Thu 06/26/08 05:03 PM
Atheists are free minded people who obey logic , evidence , and proof . They are free and owe nothing to anyone and no one owes them anything . Religious people are the slaves of their beliefs and depend on what others think for them . Atheism was not , is not and will not be a religion .

buffry Joined Mon 11/05/07 Posts: 2647	Thu 06/26/08 05:05 PM
Atheists are free minded people who obey logic , evidence , and proof . They are free and owe nothing to anyone and no one owes them anything . Religious people are the slaves of their beliefs and depend on what others think for them . Atheism was not , is not and will not be a religion . Thank you!!!

sam53 Joined Wed 03/12/08 Posts: 2073	Thu 06/26/08 05:22 PM
Atheists are free minded people who obey logic , evidence , and proof . They are free and owe nothing to anyone and no one owes them anything . Religious people are the slaves of their beliefs and depend on what others think for them . Atheism was not , is not and will not be a religion . Thank you!!! Thank you my dear . .

buffry Joined Mon 11/05/07 Posts: 2647	Thu 06/26/08 05:29 PM
Atheists are free minded people who obey logic , evidence , and proof . They are free and owe nothing to anyone and no one owes them anything . Religious people are the slaves of their beliefs and depend on what others think for them . Atheism was not , is not and will not be a religion . Thank you!!! Thank you my dear . . Awe...thanks for the flowers! You should check this one out as well...might interest you a bit...http://mingle2.com/topic/show/136996?page=3

feralcatlady Joined Mon 10/08/07 Posts: 35491	Thu 06/26/08 05:41 PM
Atheists are free minded people who obey logic , evidence , and proof . They are free and owe nothing to anyone and no one owes them anything . Religious people are the slaves of their beliefs and depend on what others think for them . Atheism was not , is not and will not be a religion . Thank you!!! isn't that what I said.....atheists = don't believe in any gods.......yea I think that pretty much said it. And hmmmm assuming a lot thinking that I am a slave to my beliefs sweetie.....And rest assured no one and I mean no one has or ever will think for me....My relationship with God is a very personal one.....and based on experiences that I have had...not because I was brought up that way....

Dragoness Joined Wed 10/17/07 Posts: 23320	Thu 06/26/08 05:44 PM
Man wrote the bible in parables because it can fit into more than one scenerio, making it easier to pass off as some divine work of revelation. All religions must claim to have some kind of divine knowledge that is above the normal for people to believe they are superior and therefore special. Otherwise all religions would fail. My opinion of course. I am not at all mad.....I would just like once when people say the above stuff to prove what they mean....And if anyone and I mean anyone thinks or believes that they are superior for what they believe......oh so so so very sad.... Prove what I mean. Okay you asked for it but remember that. What I mean is the bible was written by men assembled by men and edited by men for the sole purpose of developing a religion in which they can control people making them believe that this book of stories was divinely recieved, divinely blessed by an invisible, nonexistant "big brother" who will by the institution of fear, make people act and contribute to a church which grows from the ignorance of those who follow the teachings of the men who "interpret" the bible to fit what they desire of the humans they wish to control. Now as for your verses, of course there has to be divine secrets of which the religious will seek the deeper knowledge out of the religion because if there is not some "unknown", "secret", superior knowledge that the religious believe they have or can attain by devoting their time and lives to the religion and this certain god, then the religion would die. My opinion of course.

Dragoness Joined Wed 10/17/07 Posts: 23320	Thu 06/26/08 05:45 PM
Atheists are free minded people who obey logic , evidence , and proof . They are free and owe nothing to anyone and no one owes them anything . Religious people are the slaves of their beliefs and depend on what others think for them . Atheism was not , is not and will not be a religion .

smiless Joined Wed 09/26/07 Posts: 13765	Thu 06/26/08 05:47 PM Edited by smiless on Thu 06/26/08 05:48 PM
So out of curiousity I have on my personal profile the choice of either atheism or non religion. What is the difference? and yes there are more choices! I know that. What is the difference between non religion and atheist? and then we have agnostic and agnostic theist? To me agnostic means unsure and agnostic theist means unsure but feels there is something.

willy_cents Joined Sat 07/14/07 Posts: 4471	Thu 06/26/08 06:17 PM
IMO, the summation of ones personal beliefs are their religon. Anyone who professes no religon by default professes no personal beliefs. Is atheism a religon? If the practitioners adopt the generally defined beliefs of atheism, then they are in fact practicing a religon.

buffry Joined Mon 11/05/07 Posts: 2647	Thu 06/26/08 06:20 PM
IMO, the summation of ones personal beliefs are their religon. Anyone who professes no religon by default professes no personal beliefs. Is atheism a religon? If the practitioners adopt the generally defined beliefs of atheism, then they are in fact practicing a religon. That's a load of ****- Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1) - Cite This Source - Share This a·the·ist Audio Help /ˈeɪθiɪst/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[ey-thee-ist] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation –noun a person who denies or disbelieves the existence of a supreme being or beings. [Origin: 1565–75; < Gk áthe(os) godless + -ist] —Synonyms Atheist, agnostic, infidel, skeptic refer to persons not inclined toward religious belief or a particular form of religious belief. An atheist is one who denies the existence of a deity or of divine beings. An agnostic is one who believes it impossible to know anything about God or about the creation of the universe and refrains from commitment to any religious doctrine. Infidel means an unbeliever, especially a nonbeliever in Islam or Christianity. A skeptic doubts and is critical of all accepted doctrines and creeds.