Topic: US soldier refuses to serve in 'illegal Iraq war'
slinger08's photo
Sun 05/18/08 10:41 AM
It is pretty cut and dry, whether he believed the war to be illegal or not is not his call. He signed a contract and took an oath that a lot of service members consider to be on par with marriage vows. I don't expect any of you that have never "been there, done that" to understand and you can flame me all you want. Those that refuse to go over seas and have their brother/sisters backs despite of their own beliefs needs to be put in the brig and their veteran benefits shredded in their face. That is their family whether they want to see it that way or not, and you can't sit there behind your monitor and tell me if some one was threatening or even killing your brothers and sisters that you wouldn't stand up in their defense.

Bash the President if you will, that is your right and I would stand up again in a second to defend your right to speak your mind but that in no way constitutes a gross negligence of your sworn duty to protect this country no matter where that may take you(if in the service).

It just makes me sick that spoiled brats in this country take for granted everyday, everything that those soldiers over there now are providing. I mean how about if we would have just turned the other cheek to the World Trade Center and let the terrorists keep hitting us and killing our families, maybe you would like us to bring the fight back home here in the states instead of in their back yard. People just need to start thinking about the whole picture and not just what the media wants them to see, go talk to a vet and ask them if they are proud of serving their country.

You know what? I am done with this crap and I will end up saying some things I don't really mean to the deserters and anti-military cry babies.

To all of you who have served and are still serving, thanks for carrying on and wish I could still be there.

Semper Fi!

Fanta46's photo
Sun 05/18/08 10:58 AM

It is pretty cut and dry, whether he believed the war to be illegal or not is not his call. He signed a contract and took an oath that a lot of service members consider to be on par with marriage vows. I don't expect any of you that have never "been there, done that" to understand and you can flame me all you want. Those that refuse to go over seas and have their brother/sisters backs despite of their own beliefs needs to be put in the brig and their veteran benefits shredded in their face. That is their family whether they want to see it that way or not, and you can't sit there behind your monitor and tell me if some one was threatening or even killing your brothers and sisters that you wouldn't stand up in their defense.

Bash the President if you will, that is your right and I would stand up again in a second to defend your right to speak your mind but that in no way constitutes a gross negligence of your sworn duty to protect this country no matter where that may take you(if in the service).

It just makes me sick that spoiled brats in this country take for granted everyday, everything that those soldiers over there now are providing. I mean how about if we would have just turned the other cheek to the World Trade Center and let the terrorists keep hitting us and killing our families, maybe you would like us to bring the fight back home here in the states instead of in their back yard. People just need to start thinking about the whole picture and not just what the media wants them to see, go talk to a vet and ask them if they are proud of serving their country.

You know what? I am done with this crap and I will end up saying some things I don't really mean to the deserters and anti-military cry babies.

To all of you who have served and are still serving, thanks for carrying on and wish I could still be there.

Semper Fi!


Beautifully said!!
drinker drinker

cutelildevilsmom's photo
Sun 05/18/08 11:00 AM



if you refuse to do your duty as a member of the military you deserve to go to jail. i dont care if you think it is wrong or not. if you are told to go you had better get ready pack your crap and kiss everyone goodbye. he is a coward.


If the president told you to kill your first born I guess you would do that too...
every man and woman signed that piece of paper and it is in detail that you are to do as your told and go where they tell you to go. if it is illegal well get your piece of paper babe and start a petition to impeach everyone involved it voting to fund, send troops over and oversee the "war". hurry you better get working. hey after that why don't you just go ahead and try to get everyone to charge them with war crimes too. hows that sound.

excuse me but would you call a man babe if you were debating with him.show some respect .

adj4u's photo
Sun 05/18/08 11:06 AM




if you refuse to do your duty as a member of the military you deserve to go to jail. i dont care if you think it is wrong or not. if you are told to go you had better get ready pack your crap and kiss everyone goodbye. he is a coward.


If the president told you to kill your first born I guess you would do that too...
every man and woman signed that piece of paper and it is in detail that you are to do as your told and go where they tell you to go. if it is illegal well get your piece of paper babe and start a petition to impeach everyone involved it voting to fund, send troops over and oversee the "war". hurry you better get working. hey after that why don't you just go ahead and try to get everyone to charge them with war crimes too. hows that sound.

excuse me but would you call a man babe if you were debating with him.show some respect .



:wink:

with all respect jax

you are a babe

:wink:

laugh laugh laugh laugh laugh laugh


cutelildevilsmom's photo
Sun 05/18/08 11:07 AM





I hate this war, but I am a vet and this kind of **** can not be tolerated.
It is not his place to fight the politicians. His is to do his duty. I will and do fight the politicians for him and all my brothers.drinker

All American civilians should, not the soldiers...

wow fanta we argee on something, who knew?
no hard feelings?? have a great day!drinker flowerforyou


So soldiers are robots : just take orders !
laugh laugh laugh laugh sad sad sad !.


They are Patriots!
They are Soldiers!


I am an American Soldier.
I am a Warrior and a member of a team.
I serve the people of the United States, and live the Army Values.
I will always place the mission first.
I will never accept defeat.
I will never quit.
I will never leave a fallen comrade.
I am disciplined, physically and mentally tough,
Trained and proficient in my warrior tasks and drills.
I always maintain my arms, my equipment and myself.
I am an expert and I am a professional.
I stand ready to deploy, engage, and destroy, the enemies of the United States of America in close combat.
I am a guardian of freedom and the American way of life.
I am an American Soldier.

An active duty soldier has no place in fighting Politics!
Get it?



When innocent people are killed it is called first degree murder and not patriotism and courage . Any human can change politics including soldiers .sad sad sad sad !.


War is hell but is necessary for peace.Even Sargant York (www 1 concietious objector)braved the battle field.when you join the military i think you pretty much know you may have to fight.They don't pay soldiers to think they pay them to fight on the battlefield.Illegalities are not to be determined by soldiers.

cutelildevilsmom's photo
Sun 05/18/08 11:07 AM





if you refuse to do your duty as a member of the military you deserve to go to jail. i dont care if you think it is wrong or not. if you are told to go you had better get ready pack your crap and kiss everyone goodbye. he is a coward.


If the president told you to kill your first born I guess you would do that too...
every man and woman signed that piece of paper and it is in detail that you are to do as your told and go where they tell you to go. if it is illegal well get your piece of paper babe and start a petition to impeach everyone involved it voting to fund, send troops over and oversee the "war". hurry you better get working. hey after that why don't you just go ahead and try to get everyone to charge them with war crimes too. hows that sound.

excuse me but would you call a man babe if you were debating with him.show some respect .



:wink:

with all respect jax

you are a babe

:wink:

laugh laugh laugh laugh laugh laugh



thank you..:heart:

adj4u's photo
Sun 05/18/08 11:17 AM
Edited by adj4u on Sun 05/18/08 11:26 AM
marine corps oath


Enlisted:

I (state your name) do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to the regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God.



Officer:

I (state your name) do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; That I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office on which I am about to enter. So help me God.


--------------

which is listed first following orders

or

defending the constitution

and

if the orders go against the constitution should they be followed

if the president orders the marines to disarm the american people should that order be followed?????????


slinger08's photo
Sun 05/18/08 11:38 AM

Enlisted:

I (state your name) do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to the regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God.



Officer:

I (state your name) do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; That I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office on which I am about to enter. So help me God.


--------------

which is listed first following orders

or

defending the constitution

and

if the orders go against the constitution should they be followed

if the president orders the marines to disarm the american people should that order be followed?????????




Not even gonna touch that, if you honestly believe that is the likeliest of scenarios, then sure, your right, keep watching CNN. Seriously losing faith in the American school systems. frown

slinger08's photo
Sun 05/18/08 11:40 AM
Oh and it is not just the Marine Corps that takes that oath before shipping to boot camp, it is every service and if you don't believe that head on over to the MEPS station and sit in on one, every person will be wearing a name tag with what branch of service they are enlisting in.

adj4u's photo
Sun 05/18/08 11:41 AM
according to your post they have no choice

i want your insight

and till you know me do not make hollow accusations

those without a ligament arguement resort to personal attack


adj4u's photo
Sun 05/18/08 11:44 AM
Edited by adj4u on Sun 05/18/08 11:48 AM

Oh and it is not just the Marine Corps that takes that oath before shipping to boot camp, it is every service and if you don't believe that head on over to the MEPS station and sit in on one, every person will be wearing a name tag with what branch of service they are enlisting in.


i got it off a site quoting it as marine corp oath so i said it was a marine corps oath

i did not look up the other oaths




slinger08's photo
Sun 05/18/08 11:49 AM
Edited by slinger08 on Sun 05/18/08 11:49 AM
No they don't have a choice, one thing I was always taught in the Marines is do what your told and if you have a problem with it, come back after the job is done and discuss your problems with your superior and you may just find an underlying cause to why they need it done in a particular way.

I was in no way meaning to demean you in anyway and I am sorry if I came across that way. But trying to take the oath and break it down in order of importance is ignorant and in turn is not a legitimate argument in any forum you take it to. The soldiers job is not to question why, but to do or die. Can you imagine the death toll count in any war where military personal constantly questioned orders just for their own self satisfaction. This is bigger than any one person and for anyone to think that it is all about them seriously needs to consider some professional medical help.

adj4u's photo
Sun 05/18/08 11:51 AM
Edited by adj4u on Sun 05/18/08 11:52 AM

No they don't have a choice, one thing I was always taught in the Marines is do what your told and if you have a problem with it, come back after the job is done and discuss your problems with your superior and you may just find an underlying cause to why they need it done in a particular way.

I was in no way meaning to demean you in anyway and I am sorry if I came across that way. But trying to take the oath and break it down in order of importance is ignorant and in turn is not a legitimate argument in any forum you take it to. The soldiers job is not to question why, but to do or die. Can you imagine the death toll count in any war where military personal constantly questioned orders just for their own self satisfaction. This is bigger than any one person and for anyone to think that it is all about them seriously needs to consider some professional medical help.


so if the president orders the marines to disarm the people of the united states they should do it or die trying

and if not where is the line that says nope do not cross this

slinger08's photo
Sun 05/18/08 11:52 AM


No they don't have a choice, one thing I was always taught in the Marines is do what your told and if you have a problem with it, come back after the job is done and discuss your problems with your superior and you may just find an underlying cause to why they need it done in a particular way.

I was in no way meaning to demean you in anyway and I am sorry if I came across that way. But trying to take the oath and break it down in order of importance is ignorant and in turn is not a legitimate argument in any forum you take it to. The soldiers job is not to question why, but to do or die. Can you imagine the death toll count in any war where military personal constantly questioned orders just for their own self satisfaction. This is bigger than any one person and for anyone to think that it is all about them seriously needs to consider some professional medical help.


so if the president orders the marines to disarm the people of the united states they should do it or die trying


again the most likely of scenarios.

adj4u's photo
Sun 05/18/08 11:53 AM
Edited by adj4u on Sun 05/18/08 11:54 AM
does not matter how likely do they are don't they

you are avoiding answering

is that because you would do it

or because you would not do it

slinger08's photo
Sun 05/18/08 11:57 AM
For one congress would never allow that to happen as it is against the constitutional rights of all Americans to bear arms. Second, if said act of the President was not unconstitutional then yes it is every soldier,sailor,airmen and Marines duty to follow orders or die trying. Pretty simple when you really think about it.

adj4u's photo
Sun 05/18/08 12:01 PM

For one congress would never allow that to happen as it is against the constitutional rights of all Americans to bear arms. Second, if said act of the President was not unconstitutional then yes it is every soldier,sailor,airmen and Marines duty to follow orders or die trying. Pretty simple when you really think about it.


so the constitution over rides orders

thus you are taking the oath apart and prioritizing it

a few posts ago you said that was silly (for lack of exact word)

and if you do not like the arms one how about arresting a citizen and holding them without notification nor getting to see a judge

MirrorMirror's photo
Sun 05/18/08 12:05 PM
flowerforyou Blessed are the peacemakersflowerforyou

karmafury's photo
Sun 05/18/08 12:05 PM

For one congress would never allow that to happen as it is against the constitutional rights of all Americans to bear arms. Second, if said act of the President was not unconstitutional then yes it is every soldier,sailor,airmen and Marines duty to follow orders or die trying. Pretty simple when you really think about it.


Fortunately it is not only the US Constitution which affects the legality of orders.
Historically the excuse of 'just following orders' has not been accepted as an excuse. Save in one case where the accused got a slap on the wrist from an American Court Martial Tribunal and superiors were excused or acquitted.

slinger08's photo
Sun 05/18/08 12:05 PM


For one congress would never allow that to happen as it is against the constitutional rights of all Americans to bear arms. Second, if said act of the President was not unconstitutional then yes it is every soldier,sailor,airmen and Marines duty to follow orders or die trying. Pretty simple when you really think about it.


so the constitution over rides orders

thus you are taking the oath apart and prioritizing it

a few posts ago you said that was silly (for lack of exact word)

and if you do not like the arms one how about arresting a citizen and holding them without notification nor getting to see a judge


OMG you cannot really be serious, please go back and reread the entire post, all of them actually. This has went from a constructive debate to trolling. If you really cannot understand the difference between orders and constitutional rights then I am done with this part of the conversation. NEXT!!