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| Topic: It's ALL About Jesus... | |
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Edited by
Rapunzel
on
Sat 05/17/08 10:36 AM
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  Jesus Christ is the same ~ yesterday ~ today & forever He still stands on the edges of our hearts  and beckons to the deepest depths of our souls in that ever - gentle , non - threatening, ever - loving, patient, compassionate, understanding, kind & tender voice that emanates to our hearts from deep within I do believe that God loves us sooo very much & wants us to draw closer to him... He says.... " Be Still and Know that I am God ...." Psalms 46 verse 10 |
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The real irony of Christianity is that they put Jesus BEFORE the God of Abraham.
Yet it was the God of Abraham who made as his first commandment, “Thou Shalt have no other God’s BEFORE me” The problems associated with placing Jesus before the God of Abraham are enormous. Christians are so focused on Jesus that they have basically rejected the God of Abraham altogether, and swept him under the carpet. They try to use Jesus as a distraction to pull attention away from the original God of this mythology. If one is to believe in the biblical God, that person must worship the God of Abraham above all else including Jesus. Attempting to put Jesus before the God of Abraham is nothing short of ludicrous. Also, to claim that Jesus actually is the God of Abraham carries with it its own paradoxes. Not the least of which is that God would be appeasing himself by his own blood ‘sacrifice’ which is again ludicrous. Christians are so focused on Jesus that they have lost sight of what the entire biblical story was about in the first place. To begin with when Evangelists go around asking people to accept Jesus Christ as their savior they are making really wild assumptions. Before anyone can accept Jesus Christ as their Savior they must FIRST accept Satan as their enemy. Without Satan, the crucifixion of Jesus has no meaning. Satan gives meaning to Jesus in this story. Without Satan there would be no need for Jesus. Satan is ever bit as important as Jesus in this story. Not one iota less important. No one can accept Jesus as their savior until they first accept Satan as their enemy. Otherwise they have nothing to be saved from. So evangelists should really be going around asking people to accept Satan as their enemy. Only after they accomplish that would it make sense to introduce the idea of Jesus as their savior. |
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The real irony of Christianity is that they put Jesus BEFORE the God of Abraham. Yet it was the God of Abraham who made as his first commandment, “Thou Shalt have no other God’s BEFORE me” The problems associated with placing Jesus before the God of Abraham are enormous. Christians are so focused on Jesus that they have basically rejected the God of Abraham altogether, and swept him under the carpet. They try to use Jesus as a distraction to pull attention away from the original God of this mythology. If one is to believe in the biblical God, that person must worship the God of Abraham above all else including Jesus. Attempting to put Jesus before the God of Abraham is nothing short of ludicrous. Also, to claim that Jesus actually is the God of Abraham carries with it its own paradoxes. Not the least of which is that God would be appeasing himself by his own blood ‘sacrifice’ which is again ludicrous. Christians are so focused on Jesus that they have lost sight of what the entire biblical story was about in the first place. To begin with when Evangelists go around asking people to accept Jesus Christ as their savior they are making really wild assumptions. Before anyone can accept Jesus Christ as their Savior they must FIRST accept Satan as their enemy. Without Satan, the crucifixion of Jesus has no meaning. Satan gives meaning to Jesus in this story. Without Satan there would be no need for Jesus. Satan is ever bit as important as Jesus in this story. Not one iota less important. No one can accept Jesus as their savior until they first accept Satan as their enemy. Otherwise they have nothing to be saved from. So evangelists should really be going around asking people to accept Satan as their enemy. Only after they accomplish that would it make sense to introduce the idea of Jesus as their savior.  what irony? Jesus is the God of Abraham.  oops. 
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Edited by
Rapunzel
on
Sat 05/17/08 11:15 AM
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 We try to rationalize & understand God  with our limited mortal minds.... only thing ~ there is a detail we often overlook,  !!!!! and that is ~ that God is immortal & limitless !!!!!
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Edited by
Jeanniebean
on
Sat 05/17/08 11:21 AM
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In my search for an answer to the question regarding the reason for the sacrifice of an innocent person (or pure animal) to pay for sins; I have received two different answers from devout Christians concerning the sacrifice of Jesus.
Q # 1. To whom was the sacrifice made? I first concluded that the sacrifice was to appease the god of this world (Satan or Lucifer or who ever) and that we were "guilty" simply because we were born in the midst of the Lucifer rebellion and live under his domain and in order to be pardoned, the sacrifice was required ~~ and offered to Satan. Some Christians have said that we were "purchased by the blood." Others don't really seem to know what that means. So in order to have been "purchased," it follows that there has to be a buyer and a seller of this "pardon." This implies two separate and apposing entities making this transaction. In the sense of a story line, that seemed to make sense. But then another Christian told me that the sacrifice was NOT to appease Satan it was simply to appease or obey the law of "God." (I guess they are referring to the God of Abraham.) So for those who say this, Abracadabra is correct in asking why would God sacrifice his own son to appease himself? And why must God obey or enforce his own law? (The wages of sin is death) and at the price of his son? Q: 2: Are Jesus and God the same personality/entity? Now if God and Jesus are two separate personalities it makes more sense. God would be the hard case who wants to uphold the law and kill all the sinners, and Jesus would be the soft case who took pity upon the sinners and offered to pay the price for their sins. But when we are told that the God and Jesus are the same thing or that Jesus is God, it only serves to confuse people. (Unless you look at that statement from the view of a pantheist. ~ In that case we are all God.) Q:3 What is "sin" and why the death penalty? If you look at the definition of "sin" it boils down to mean "disobedience." So the law is a strict one that says that any disobedience has a death sentence. That is a pretty strict and unforgiving law, one more fit for slaves than persons with free will. This kind of questioning of Christian doctrine is rarely answered with clarity and thought but is labeled "Bashing." We are told that we "over think" things and that we should just have faith and love one another. Note: The only reason I ask these questions to begin with is because I have vowed to consider all information because I believe there is a valid reason for any and all information, even myth and legend. If I were not seeking validity in this information, I would not ask questions at all, I would simply put it in a pile and label it fiction and fantasy or fraud. The stories of a crucified savior has been told many different times throughout the history of the earth and I just would like to know what it represents if anything. In all honesty, this is my dilemma and the problem with Christianity. JB |
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Edited by
Jeanniebean
on
Sat 05/17/08 11:17 AM
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We try to rationalize & understand God with our limited mortal minds.... only thing ~ there is a detail we often overlook, !!!!! the detail is that God is immortal & limitless !!!!! Yeh, why try? Why not just remain ignorant and blind? If that works for you, I guess ignorance is bliss. JB |
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Yeh, why try? Why not just remain ignorant and blind? If that works for you, I guess ignorance is bliss. JB If we were just going to believing things without questioning them then why not believe in Zeus? He came first. The idea that we aren't supposed to question religion is an idea that come from men who are trying to sell religions that they know will fall apart under scrutiny. If a picture of God is legit it should stand up to any and all scrutiny. But the biblical picture most certainly doesn't If falls apart before the story of mankind even comes into the picture. The biblical story of God falls apart with the idea that angels in a perfect heaven weren’t happy in the first place. That flies in the face of the idea that heaven is perfect. Clearly if the angels weren’t happy there they most certainly didn’t think it was perfect. The biblical picture of God falls flat on it’s face before it even gets off the ground. |
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Edited by
Jeanniebean
on
Sat 05/17/08 11:39 AM
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The idea that we aren't supposed to question religion is an idea that come from men who are trying to sell religions that they know will fall apart under scrutiny. This is one of the things that I became aware of when I was in Eckankar. People who asked the hard questions were intimidated like: "How dare you question the Living ECK master!!" (That to them, was like bashing God) After I left the cult, I read of people who questioned the fraud who were threatened with law suits for attempting to expose the fraud! It just really ticks me off....  JB |
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I love it and God and Christ and you. all good. all joy. I can still hear Him say to my heart: "My beloved".  Amen to that... to hear Him say "My beloved." |
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Edited by
Rapunzel
on
Sat 05/17/08 05:10 PM
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We try to rationalize & understand God with our limited mortal minds.... only thing ~ there is a detail we often overlook, !!!!! the detail is that God is immortal & limitless !!!!! Yeh, why try? Why not just remain ignorant and blind? If that works for you, I guess ignorance is bliss. JB  speak for yourself ... and only yourself...  your comments are ignorant & unfounded you don't even slightly know me, and with your bad attitude ~ you never will.... you can bet on that don't think you are going to succeed in playing your little adolescent ego games with me... i don't play your game & i don't buy into your bs... and i never will  and you just can't handle that |
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[b Yeh, why try? Why not just remain ignorant and blind? If that works for you, I guess ignorance is bliss. JB God said He would use the simple things to confound the wisdom of the "WISE." (in their own eyes that is) You stay down there but as for me? I'd rather have the COURAGE it takes to live by FAITH than base human wisdom which is corrupt in it's ways. |
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[b Yeh, why try? Why not just remain ignorant and blind? If that works for you, I guess ignorance is bliss. JB God said He would use the simple things to confound the wisdom of the "WISE." (in their own eyes that is) You stay down there but as for me? I'd rather have the COURAGE it takes to live by FAITH than base human wisdom which is corrupt in it's ways. Amen.... and faith has absolutely nothing to do with knowledge or lack of knowledge... being ignorant or knowledgable has no bearing on faith but the more we know, the more faith we have, i think... the more we realize the majesty & splendor of Our Lord Jesus Christ... |
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[b Yeh, why try? Why not just remain ignorant and blind? If that works for you, I guess ignorance is bliss. JB God said He would use the simple things to confound the wisdom of the "WISE." (in their own eyes that is) You stay down there but as for me? I'd rather have the COURAGE it takes to live by FAITH than base human wisdom which is corrupt in it's ways. Amen.... and faith has absolutely nothing to do with knowledge or lack of knowledge... being ignorant or knowledgable has no bearing on faith but the more we know, the more faith we have, i think... the more we realize the majesty & splendor of Our Lord Jesus Christ... AGREED! |
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In my search for an answer to the question regarding the reason for the sacrifice of an innocent person (or pure animal) to pay for sins; I have received two different answers from devout Christians concerning the sacrifice of Jesus. Q # 1. To whom was the sacrifice made? I first concluded that the sacrifice was to appease the god of this world (Satan or Lucifer or who ever) and that we were "guilty" simply because we were born in the midst of the Lucifer rebellion and live under his domain and in order to be pardoned, the sacrifice was required ~~ and offered to Satan. Some Christians have said that we were "purchased by the blood." Others don't really seem to know what that means. So in order to have been "purchased," it follows that there has to be a buyer and a seller of this "pardon." This implies two separate and apposing entities making this transaction. In the sense of a story line, that seemed to make sense. But then another Christian told me that the sacrifice was NOT to appease Satan it was simply to appease or obey the law of "God." (I guess they are referring to the God of Abraham.) So for those who say this, Abracadabra is correct in asking why would God sacrifice his own son to appease himself? And why must God obey or enforce his own law? (The wages of sin is death) and at the price of his son? Q: 2: Are Jesus and God the same personality/entity? Now if God and Jesus are two separate personalities it makes more sense. God would be the hard case who wants to uphold the law and kill all the sinners, and Jesus would be the soft case who took pity upon the sinners and offered to pay the price for their sins. But when we are told that the God and Jesus are the same thing or that Jesus is God, it only serves to confuse people. (Unless you look at that statement from the view of a pantheist. ~ In that case we are all God.) Q:3 What is "sin" and why the death penalty? If you look at the definition of "sin" it boils down to mean "disobedience." So the law is a strict one that says that any disobedience has a death sentence. That is a pretty strict and unforgiving law, one more fit for slaves than persons with free will. This kind of questioning of Christian doctrine is rarely answered with clarity and thought but is labeled "Bashing." We are told that we "over think" things and that we should just have faith and love one another. Note: The only reason I ask these questions to begin with is because I have vowed to consider all information because I believe there is a valid reason for any and all information, even myth and legend. If I were not seeking validity in this information, I would not ask questions at all, I would simply put it in a pile and label it fiction and fantasy or fraud. The stories of a crucified savior has been told many different times throughout the history of the earth and I just would like to know what it represents if anything. In all honesty, this is my dilemma and the problem with Christianity. JB none of the sources are verifiable, therefore heresay. No argument made. My answers... 1)man. and man was paid. Man needed the example from a man. God incarnate sets his own example of overcoming death, thus proving the validity of God's laws. JUSTIFIED 2)same personality, same entity. But the Father is not the God if Isra-el, JHWH is. And Jesus is JHWH, incarnate. The Living Word, that speaks for the Father, the Creator, exclusively. 3)sin is "mistake" or "error" translated from Hebrew to English, correctly. Blamlessness and righteousness are the propitiation for errors and mistakes. Man is incapable of overcoming that which he did not create for himself. Big difference . learn, grow and be at peace. |
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quote: As GENTLE as a lamb...is the Lamb of God. A lamb who didn't run or try to get away from trouble... prick it till it bleeds & watch it lick the blood off your shoes... gentle...gentle as a lamb...our Lord & Savior Jesus is. It takes TOTAL surrender to be that gentle. Surrender of our pride...worries... fears... anxieties... anger...and any other problem under the sun. It's a lovely verse, thankyou for sharing it.
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Yeh, why try? Why not just remain ignorant and blind? If that works for you, I guess ignorance is bliss. JB If we were just going to believing things without questioning them then why not believe in Zeus? He came first. The idea that we aren't supposed to question religion is an idea that come from men who are trying to sell religions that they know will fall apart under scrutiny. If a picture of God is legit it should stand up to any and all scrutiny. But the biblical picture most certainly doesn't If falls apart before the story of mankind even comes into the picture. The biblical story of God falls apart with the idea that angels in a perfect heaven weren’t happy in the first place. That flies in the face of the idea that heaven is perfect. Clearly if the angels weren’t happy there they most certainly didn’t think it was perfect. The biblical picture of God falls flat on it’s face before it even gets off the ground. Zeus is predated by JHWH. It is not the "happiness" of angels that was given man to know of by JHWH, The God of Abraham, the "guiding light " of Isra-el. It was the iniquity found in one angel alone, Lucifer. That iniquity spoke to man as a source of inspiration for man's discontent. That man was not pre-existent, man is not responsible for knowing all of the ramifications of iniquity, but is held accountable for knowing the difference between "guiding light" and temptations. Justice and judgement prevail in truth. NOT iniquity. learn, grow and be at peace.
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Edited by
Rapunzel
on
Sat 05/17/08 05:25 PM
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Yeh, why try? Why not just remain ignorant and blind? If that works for you, I guess ignorance is bliss. JB If we were just going to believing things without questioning them then why not believe in Zeus? He came first. The idea that we aren't supposed to question religion is an idea that come from men who are trying to sell religions that they know will fall apart under scrutiny. If a picture of God is legit it should stand up to any and all scrutiny. But the biblical picture most certainly doesn't If falls apart before the story of mankind even comes into the picture. The biblical story of God falls apart with the idea that angels in a perfect heaven weren’t happy in the first place. That flies in the face of the idea that heaven is perfect. Clearly if the angels weren’t happy there they most certainly didn’t think it was perfect. The biblical picture of God falls flat on it’s face before it even gets off the ground. maybe to you, James...but not to me.... and anyway... who are you referring to , when you say "If we were just going to believing things without questioning them then why not believe in Zeus? He came first. " because i have always been a seeker and i have said nothing to give anyone the impression that i do not question anything or everything ... assumptions are being made with out prior knowledge , and actually i am surprised at you James.... for you and i have emailed one another off line  and shared some things with each other you told me some of the things that make you who you are ... & i shared with you some of the searching & wanderings that my soul has undergone |
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Edited by
star_tin_gover
on
Sat 05/17/08 05:41 PM
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We try to rationalize & understand God with our limited mortal minds.... only thing ~ there is a detail we often overlook, !!!!! the detail is that God is immortal & limitless !!!!! Yeh, why try? Why not just remain ignorant and blind? If that works for you, I guess ignorance is bliss. JB Why not remain ignorant and blind? I would ask the same of you? It depends on the wind ow you are looking through which is obviously different from mine. Have a blissful evening.
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Edited by
Jeanniebean
on
Sat 05/17/08 05:41 PM
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Why not remain ignorant and blind? I would ask the same of you? Have a blissful evening. Star-tin.. Remaining blissfully ignorant doesn't work for me, so I ask the hard questions and I believe we have the capacity to understand creation, and the workings of reality and the universe and yes, God. JB |
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