There is a reason why I don't get into the religion chats.lol
Everyone is here to learn to be a good person before you die. You and only you know about yourself. No one follows you around 100% of the time. How did you handle it the last 25 times someone sh*t on you, stole from you or anything like that? We all know right from wrong, but do you act right when the situation arises? Only you know. By the time we each die God expects us to be worthy of Heaven. Remember, once you are dead you can not go back and fix anything.
That is a small piece of the "Big Picture"
John

Life has a melody.

A rhythm of notes that become your existence once played in harmony with Gods plan.

LOL... no...we are much more to God than throw aways or we would not be here today.

God...our Creator...our Loving Father...Our gentle Lamb... Our great Sheppard who goes looking for His sheep who are lost in sin... He has so much more than we could possible think or imagine for ourselves...

IF... we surrender to Him. :) Maybe we are here just because...does there need to be a reason why God loves His children? That's grace...unmerited favor by God extended to all humanity...even those too cynical to believe Him.

God bless.... :)

I can easily just take one thing you mentioned. Kids. With my kids I have received more joy and fulfillment then I could get in an Eternity of life times.

If you look past your kids like they are equal to posetions I am sad for you. If you are looking past your kids to some future with the great OZ. I am also sad for you. Live the life you have NOW. See how wonderful it is to be in the moment with your kids and maybe you won't look past them for this future with something you hope is better.

all you described was memories ...so the question that should be pondered is...are you anything more than the sum of those memories ...

I don't think life, per se, has any intrinsic purpose whatsoever.

The only purpose it can have is that which we choose to attribute to it.

I didn't think I would have this much trouble with people getting it....but I am.....

First of all....My family is my world.....and this thread has nothing to do with the lessons, the love, the ultimate joy that we have while on earth. I am a great believer in doing all you can to make this stay on earth a happy one....cmon I am all for doing something not to merely exist....But this was not the purpose of this thread. It was meant to look at the broader picture.

You tell me funches? I know why I wrote the thread...and I don't want to give what my feelings are towards it....I am trying to see what others think......so are you the sum of your memories.......dig deep funches, tell me the answers in your heart to the questions I have asked.

Clearly we are not our memories. People who are stricken with amnesia are proof of this.

People often say, "If we don't remember our life when we die, and then we enter into a new life just like we did with this one, then for all intents and purposes we do die and someone else is born! A whole new person!"

Understanding why this sentiment wrong is actually the key to enlightenment. We are neither our body, nor the sum total of our experience. We are the spiritual being who is experiencing all of that!.

People often say, "My past made me what I am today!"

Absolutely not!

People who say this simply don't know who they are. They think they are the sum of their experience. But that is not what they are.

They view themselves as a physical being with physical attributes, because this is what they are experiencing in this life. They define themselves by what theypossess in this life (and that includes children, lovers, emotions, and of course their physical body and all that that entails). They even associate themselves with where they were raised, or the country or race they appear to part of. Many people even define themselves by how they believe as in, "I am a Christian!"

But none of those things define what they are. Those things simply define who they are in this game of life.

Life isn't all that different from playing a character in an role-playing fantasy game. The part we play in life is the character we create but the real essence of what we are is the creator of that character. We are the creator, not the characters we think we are.

When people finally get this they are said to have become 'enlightened', or 'born again'. They then understand the true nature of their essence.

A religion that has people believing that they are the character that they are playing in this life only serves to hold them back from true enlightenment. They are convinced that they are the character. That is what they believe they are and how they see themselves. They even believe that when they die some heavenly father will preserve their character for all of eternity in a perfect heaven.

They don’t seem to realize that such a scenario would be impossible. If they had to become perfect in order to reside in that heaven then they certainly would not longer be the imperfect character that they currently are. So that flies in the face of them being the sum of their experiences and physical attributes.

Only when they realize that they are not what they think they are, can they come to realize the true nature of their actual spiritual essence. Take way your memory (you're entire past including any memory of children or loved ones etc.). Take it all away like as if you never lived at all. Take away the physical world and have no mirror with which to see yourself. Take it all away. What is left is the REAL YOU. The perceiver. The spirit that is the essence of you being. That is what continues to survive when the game of life is over.

What about your children, loved ones, friends and lovers? What about them? They were never "yours" in the first place!

They are spirits unto themselves. You merely interacted with them in very intimate and meaningful ways.

In truth you are no closer, 'spiritually speaking' ,to your own children (or your parents) than you are to the homeless wino laying in the gutter on the other side of town. Or even to your greatest enemy!

You are equally close to all spiritual beings. You are not your experience. You are the one who experiences.

(See Jeanniebean for more details. )

Now I feel compelled to deal with the reincarnation issue....gigglesnort. How do you reincarnate to something higher which it has to be....when you are already the highest as far as being a human being.....If we truly are put on this earth to die and reincarnate to a higher being.....where again does that leave you.

And saying that we die and someone else is born.....lil confusing there....people die everyday and people are born everyday...but there is no correlation between the two. I don't die and come back as sara smith.....and sara smith doesn't die and come back as a dog.....And if this were the case......again what is the purpose of being born, dying, being born, dying. If we are born and live to learn lesson and then die because we didn't learn the lesson intended then again it comes back to the purpose.

And again if we are the spiritual being......then again what is the purpose of the spirit if not to have something after our life on earth......which makes more sense to me....then reincarnation.

And I agree on my past made me what I am today....but I also feel that the past is that....learn from it and let it go. People who constantly dwell int he past....get stuck there and can't move forward.....and then again even with this scenario again comes down to purpose.....because at the end of the great journey that is here on earth.....what next.....just turn into ashes and thats that.....for me I think not......


so what is the next game of life? If we are our spiritual then what and where and why?

And this sweet abra might be the whole point. If as I have said in this thread what is the purpose.......and everyone is saying to make the best of what we have right now....to live life to the fullest.....But for the sake of argument let's say that there is a life of no war, no famines, no pain, no killing, no raping, just a life of eternal bliss......would you want it....or deny it.

And just because you feel impossible......you really don't know right? But then when you say take away your memory (you're entire past including any memory of children or loved ones etc.). Take it all away like as if you never lived at all. Take away the physical world and have no mirror with which to see yourself. Take it all away. What is left is the REAL YOU. The perceiver. The spirit that is the essence of you being. That is what continues to survive when the game of life is over.

And if the above is true....then again what was the purpose of life....if you are saying it all means nothing......Do you see where I am going here?

i think your life is what you make of it. if these are the goals you seek, then so be it. if you want more out of your life, you have to go get it. i myself would like to think i measure my life and its rewards based on other things...hmmmmm need to ponder this one a bit

The purpose of life is very very simple.

Spirit loves to play and loves to learn and do and create.

The higher self is the real you. It incarnates into the worlds created for the purpose of the development and incubation of life forms. It incarnates to experience all forms of life.

It starts with the lower forms and incarnates to the higher forms until it reaches human. Then, it incarnates many times as human to learn and experience what being human is all about, and it learns to love and have compassions and it learns how to create things.

You cannot learn or experience all that being human is about in a single lifetime.

As for choosing to go to a perfect place of eternal bliss, my dear lady, that is where we came from.

Quite frankly there is not much to do there. Living in a perfect place for eternity will not teach you anything at all. You will not learn anything.

JB

The purpose of life is very very simple.

Spirit loves to play and loves to learn and do and create.

The higher self is the real you. It incarnates into the worlds created for the purpose of the development and incubation of life forms. It incarnates to experience all forms of life.

It starts with the lower forms and incarnates to the higher forms until it reaches human. Then, it incarnates many times as human to learn and experience what being human is all about, and it learns to love and have compassions and it learns how to create things.

ANSWER:

Again this is fine for you....not for me.....as with evolution I was not a dog, then, a cat, then, a tiger, then me.......It just is against all I believe to be.....But if this is for you...ok teh. Again if this is true......for what purpose to learn any of this just to die and do it all over....even with life lessons thats all good.....but again comes down to purpose!!!!! If there is a purpose for doing as you think...then ok......but there is not...other then I was a dog who ate and drank from a dish and now I am a human and use utensils.....but in the greater scheme of life....NO PURPOSE....

I have yet to go to my eternal place....and I have not been their yet......so again for you all good.....for me a no go.

so Abracadabra"...are you saying that someone with amnesia wouldn't want their memories back ...and for the sake of argument let's say that they didn't want their memories back... would they be the same person mentally

If all you are doing is dieing and doing it all over, repeating the same mistakes over and over, then you are not learning anything are you?

But that is not what happens. You learn something new with each life.

What is the point of playing a game over and over? Why not play it once and never play it again?

Do you play games? Do you only play a game once and never again? What is the point of playing another game? To win? to loose? To learn? To get better at it? What is the point of games?




What is is. If incarnation of souls is true, then it is true for all. I am not asking you to believe it. You only want one life, and then you want to go to a blissful perfect heaven and serve God for eternity. That is what you want to believe.

Personally I see no purpose in that at all. Eternal Hell or eternal bliss, both seem rather droll to me.

Everybody has their own purpose and reason for doing what they chose to do.

What would be the purpose of living one single life as a human and then dieing and going to an eternal blissful heaven?

What would be the purpose of that? Boring a hell, is all I can say. Boring and pointless.

IN A NUTSHELL; The purpose of life is EXPERIENCE.

Experience is how we learn.

From the many lifetimes we spend on the earth, we are transformed!

JB

Would they be the same person mentally?

I think this is the root of the problem Funches.

Quit thinking of yourself in terms of "a person".

You are an entity.

So the question is,... "would they be the same entity?"

Then the answer should be crystal clear.

You are not a 'person', you are an entity that thinks it's a 'person'.



No risk? No adventure? Nothing to strive for or overcome?

What would you do in a life of pure bliss?

There would be nothing to do, because if anything needed to be done, that would be less than perfect.

How many people would go to a movie where nothing ever happens other than people just sitting around agreeing with each other?

No plot? Nothing to conquer. If you lived in a perfect bliss you wouldn't even have anyone to talk to because everyone would be in complete agreement with you. Everyone would soon just sit around gawking at each other with nothing to say or do.

I don't think you've really thought this through.

Besides, if you stop and think about it, all that agony and pain would still be going on whilst you're in heaven. It would just be removed from you view. It would all be taking place in hell. You can basically do that right now just by shutting off your TV for the most part.

In the pantheistic view all spirits to enter into a state of pure bliss and rest between epochs. And epoch being the lifetime of an entire universe.

Here's how it works,…

A physical universe is created - BOOM! <------ The Big Bang
All the spirits are manifest throughout all of creation. They experience all forms of life.
(humans are not the highest life forms in the universe, they're just the top of the food chain on earth)
Everyone is reincarnated over and over throughout the lifespan of the universe.
Not just on planet earth, but in a myriad of worlds throughout the universe.
When the universe comes to an end, we all return to a state of pure bliss and rest.
The rest period in equal to the lifespan of the entire universe.
Then BOOM! Another Big Bang, and the whole process begins again.
Every time is different.

Forever, and ever.

If this sound boring, compare this eternity to living for eternity under the rule of a fascist egotistical God!

Which truly sounds more inviting to you?

ok..then let's use entity....so Abracadabra would an entity that had amnesia want those memories back? ..and for the sake of arguments let's said that entity didn't want those memories back would it be the same entity mentally?

I think you’re missing the point here,… but I’ll try to humor you anyway.

If an entity knew that it had lost its memory it would probably want to have those memories back. But then again, without knowing what those memories are maybe it would be better off not remembering.

Would it be the same entity mentally?

That can be a deeply philosophical question Funches.

Let’s say that you’re a little boy and you grow up in a nice family and neighborhood and everything you experience is very pleasant. This is the world as you experience it. These are your memories.

Then you are drafted into the military and you go to war and see horrific sights, perhaps even suffering nasty things yourself. Then you come home to be told that your parents have died and all your friends have moved away, and many of them were killed in the war.

Are you now a different entity than you were when you were a little boy? Or are you the same entity that has simply experienced more stuff?

I would argue that you are still the little boy who has simply grown into manhood and who has experienced much more of life’s ups and downs. I wouldn’t say that you are a differnet entity. You’re still the same person! You just have different views now based on what you have experienced.

If you now get amnesia and can’t remember your past at all, you won’t remember having been the little boy, or the soldier, but you’ll still be YOU.

You’ll still be the entity who is experiencing life.

It’s not necessary to retain memory when you die. Because memory is not what you are. You are the entity that has experienced all of the things that have been recorded in your memory. If you lose your memory, that doesn’t change WHAT you are. But it might change WHO you THINK you are.

True enlightenment is to realize that you are a WHAT, and not a WHO.

Your true essence has no “WHO”.

The who is you. Not your past experience.

I just don’t know how else to put it.

It is my belief that all memory is saved and can be accessed.

No memory is lost, but you can get cut off from your memory. Memory is not only held in a biological brain, it is held in the matrix which is like a computer. The brain is merely the processor, or the "ram" memory.

Everything is energy and information. All matter is condensed stored memory. Hypnotism can unlock memories you never imagined you still had, even memories of past lives.

JB

well then "Abracadbra" ..let's just ask you that question...if you couldn't remember who you were would you want those memories back?