The preservation of Chrisrtianity's beginnings have been preserved for posterity and withstood the test of time and remains unchanged in its truthes.

The usurping of its truth by unscrupulous men throughout history has failed to curb it.

It remains the longest standing and intact and unaltered Words from God and continues to shine even under the harshest scrutiny of all of mankind and is still viable in tthat God testifies Himself the words of Jesus still stand as pleasing to God.

That is an inescapable fact which is evidenced by the proiliferation of true Christianity throughout the world.

It is a self policing truth that will always be open to ridicule and debate and scrutiny by man.

For all men in every generation it is preserved.

God sustains the words preserved.

Men cherish that and respect it sufficiently to share it selflessly and without reward.

That will never change.

I read his thread. I took in another way. At least as far as I can understand. MOre than agenda he states that is worthless try to talk a topic that some people don't want to hear.
I just didn't like the verse he used at the end. It can be open to too many misinterpretations.

I also think creation is vastly beautiful and awe inspiring and the creator must be multitudes more so...

And I wonder then how man can think that he can guess *anything* about the nature of god.

How presumptious to think that we could truly comprehend the nature of the creator?

Peace.

I know my ancestors did him one better because they created God.

You say you KNOW who that god is and have come to know him by his loving kindness and grace.

Is this a personal god of yours?

So who is he?

JB

How presumptious to think that we could truly comprehend the nature of the creator?

Yeah really,... we should at least try to figure ourselves out first.

People claim to know God and they don't even know who they are themselves. It's the epitome of absurdity.

I do know Him, He call's Himself "I Am." He is not a personal God if mine no, that would be a bit prideful of me to think that I could create a God of my own making! But I am a personal child of His! Isn't that amazing!

Yes it's amazing.

(I am also a personal child of God.)

The fact that I exist is amazing in itself.

There is only one thing I am absolutely certain of.

That is, that I exist.

That is, that I am.

The "I AM" that dwells, dwells within all that perceive themselves.

Self realization is the realization of the "I Am" within us.

Without that indwelling presence, we are simply animals following instinct and programing.

Yes that is very amazing.

JB

The fact that he calls us his children in John chapter 1 is absolutely amazing!

I'm just getting to know myself... god will always be a mystery...



I hope you are taking good care of yourself.

One thing is clear this is so that no one will misunderstand me.

Exodus 3:14
God said to Moses, " I AM WHO I AM"; and He said, "Thus you shall say to the sons of Israel, 'I AM has sent me to you.'"

John 8:57-58
So the Jews said to Him, "You are not yet fifty years old, and have You seen Abraham?"
Jesus said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I am."

"...before Abraham was born, I AM "

Amen

" In the Beginning was the Word
and the Word was With God
and the Word Was God ."
John1:1

" In the Beginning was the Word
and the Word was With God
and the Word Was God ."
John1:1

From my perspective this is precisely what any true pantheist would say. Someone who intuitively experiences the pantheistic nature of our true essence would definitely claim to have always existed.

So I don’t see this quote of Jesus as proclaiming that he’s the God of Abraham at all. On the contrary I see Jesus saying that before the God of Abraham was even conceived by men, I am.

Jesus also said to the people, “Ye are also gods”. Again, that’s the pantheistic view. Jesus isn’t saying that he’s any different from anyone else. He’s just trying to get them to understand their true nature.

Also, we keep saying that Jesus said this or Jesus said that, but in truth we have no clue what Jesus might have actually said. Jesus never wrote anything down. The only account we have of what Jesus might have said was written as hearsay after Jesus died. And most historians believe that those writing weren’t actually put to paper for several decades after the death of Jesus. Plenty of time for people to imagine that he meant things entirely differently from what he actually intended.

Many people believe that the writing of the gospels were divinely insprired or guided. But if Jesus was God and he wanted this stuff to be written down why didn’t he write it up himself? They we’d truly have the actual ‘word of God’ (if Jesus was God). The mere fact that Jesus never wrote anything down implies to me that either Jesus wasn’t God, or that God does not want things to be written down, in which case, he would not approve of the gospels being written down anyway.

We could never say enough to one another to have the other one agree on our oppositions. You serve your god and I serve mine. It would have to be a divine miracle for you to see my Lords way of thinking. It was a divine miricle for me to see it! But to simply correct Christ was speaking to Jews about them calling their father Abraham when in fact they were only children of Abraham by blood. Christ was saying that their blood lineage was nothing because though being Jews (God's chosen people) they did not honer the Lord with their hearts. These men focused all of their salvation on the fact that they were Abrahams (Gods chosen) children. Christ said "Abraham rejoiced to see my day, and saw it and was glad." They came back with (para phrased) Something like You're not even fourty years old and you say you have seen abraham (who lived centries ago) Now we know you have a demon. Then Christ said it right out of exodus. The Isrealite Pharasies were well known in the word they had most of it memorized they would know "exactly what He was saying when He said "I am" When He said it they heard it for what it was and wanted to stone Him for it. They wouldn't have cared if He had been saying I am a part of everything because I come from the earth. They would have said "You're crazy." And walked off. But He was saying that He was equal to God and in fact WAS God. And in that they saw it as blasphamy and wanted to stone Him for it.

I'm not asking you to take that as truth, I don't belive you will and I'm not saying trust "my" word. But in the context of what was being said at that time in the historical presentation of what Christ said it was just that.

A agree with Abra on the meaning of this. It does NOT proclaim that Jesus is the God of Abraham.

Technically, it only says that the indwelling soul speaking existed before Abraham.

Since God (I Am) is eternal and infinite it has always existed.

But the people of that time could not comprehend this idea, so they misinterpreted it.

They still misintrepret it.

JB

Yes I agree that they saw it as blasphemy that he would say I AM implying he was equal to God or that he was God.

We pantheists get that a lot too.

Well that's the God I serve.

Jesus never said, "ye are gods", Abra.

He was quoting the psalm in their law that declared that. the psalm, Ps. 82:6 was written by Asaph. the word there is elohiym which is also better transted as angels as compared in Psalms 8:5 and Hebrews 2:9 where angels is emphatic in the Greek and best left to them of the day to translate correctly, having known the language better than us that feebly and humbly seek and strive to get that translation correctly conveyed to you, although it has slipped thruogh miserably as has the three Hebrew words with different meanings in the OT wsere translated as God in English in oversight.

Psalms 82:5-8.


"They know not, neither will they understand ; they walk on in darkness: all the foundations of the eaarth are out of course.
I have said,Ye are gods(elohiym) ; and all of you are the children of the Most High.
But ye shall die like men, and fall like one of the princes.
Arise, O God (elohiym), judge the earth : for thou shalt inherit all nations.

here is what Jesus said in John 10:34.

" Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?"

what was written was, " I said, ye are gods."

But what he said of himself was this, oin Jhn 10:36.
" Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest ; because I said, I am the Son of God?"

There is such a huge difference between what the Bible says and what you imply it to mean.

The difference is as clear as the difference between night and day, Abra.

Light, on the one hand.
Darkness , on the other.

This, you do, incessanlty, to prove your own concoctions.

You have been shown this very difference many times and many threads, yet you continue to malign the Bible.

You are a false teacher and continue to do so even when corrected.

Clearly, your words are not to be trusted and your points are designed to pervert the truth with lies.

Any that seeks proof, need only study the threads.

They are archived, and so is every post by every user of the threads.

Deplorable .