Topic: Apocatastasis
RainbowTrout's photo
Wed 04/30/08 06:58 AM
Even if the consistency of Hell with divine justice and mercy could be established, there would remain an additional problem in Christianity, since the New Testament in several places asserts a universal salvific will, and suggests that at the end of the world, all things will be restored to God. This "restoration of all things" or apocatastasis, was interpreted strongly by certain early Greek fathers, most notably Origen, as suggesting that sinners might be restored to God and released from Hell, returning the universe to a state identical to its pure beginnings. While Origen emphatically denied that the demons and the reprobate would be saved, his theory of apocatastasis could be easily interpreted to have such implications, as was the case during the later Origenist controversies.

In the twentieth century, a belief in Christian universalism reappeared among many Protestant thinkers, and the notion that Hell might be empty was even espoused by the noted Catholic theologian Hans Urs von Balthasar. Balthasar was careful to describe his opinion that Hell might be empty as merely a hope, but even this claim was rejected by most conservative Catholics, including Cardinal Avery Dulles. www.robertwr.com Exhaustive research on the scriptural problems with the traditional church view of hell.


[edit] Universal Reconciliation and the Problem of Hell
Mainstream biblical theology typically includes the following three points, which are supported by numerous Bible passages in standard English translations (sample references are given for each point):

A. God has proclaimed the good news that he loves the world and is reconciling all things to himself through Christ (John 3:16, Colossians 1:20)

B. God has determined that those who believe this Gospel are reconciled to Him and form the Church, the Body of Christ (John 3:16, Ephesians 1)

C. The rest of humanity will be separated from God in the everlasting punishment of hell (Matthew 25:46)

The problem of hell is an issue because points A and C create an apparent contradiction. Proponents of Universal Reconciliation argue that point C only contradicts point A because words such as everlasting, eternal, forever, etc are debatable translations of the Greek word aion and its derivatives [6]. “Correction of the age” [7] , “chastening eonian” or "punishment age-during" are alternative translations for the phrase "everlasting punishment" in Matthew 25:46 and other similar passages (see the Concordant Version and Young's Literal Translation of the Bible). Christian Universalism claims to reconcile all three points in this way:

A. God has proclaimed the good news that he loves the world and is reconciling all things to himself through Christ (John 3:16, Colossians 1:20)

B. Those who believe this Gospel are reconciled to God and form the Church, the Body of Christ (John 3:16, Ephesians 1)

C. The rest of humanity will be purified through some form of remedial correction. Everyone will eventually acknowledge Christ as Lord (Philippians 2:9-11).

Mainstream Christians might question the necessity of point B if God is going to save everyone eventually. The Christian Universalist in turn might question the need for the General Priesthood if those outside the Church are ultimately doomed. In the mainstream view the primary purpose of the Church is the salvation of those included, whereas Christian Universalism teaches that the Church is established as the Body of Christ to be ministers of reconciliation to the rest of humanity (2Corinthians 5:11-21 and numerous passages about the priesthood of all believers). Universal Reconciliation sees the Church as blessed to be a blessing to the rest of the world [8] .

I thought this was interesting.:smile:

littleike's photo
Wed 04/30/08 07:07 AM
hell is a seperation from god and we do not burn as alot of religion teaches. god gave us all a brain to use we are not to believe something just cause we here it. i can have all the faith in the world that a key is going to start a car up,but if i dont take that key and put it in the ignition it will never start and thats called puting faith into action and not just hearing everyone elses opinions

SometingDifrent's photo
Wed 04/30/08 07:18 AM
interesting as it might be, there are many flaws in it. Some people need to pick back up their bibles and put down the "other sources" of "information". "Casting down imaginations and every high thing that exalts itself against the knowledge of God". ( believe that is an exact quote, too lazy this morning to go look it up) As Christians we need to remember this. Many people have had "thoughts" or "ideas" about what we think God would do based on what WE would do. This idea of universal salvation is just one fine example of such an idea. Yes it is true, "God is not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance." However, this is not going to be the case. God Himself will not put anyone in hell, their sins will drag them there. Yes, God is merciful, but He is also perfect justice. His justice DEMANDS that sin is paid for, and unless a person is willing to accept the sacrifice of Christ for their own their sin remains. Even in the "end" when He returns for us, Christ will still meet out justice on His church. Read in Matthew the parable of the Sheep and the Goats, in this parable Christ returns and gathers HIS OWN and divides them. He clearly sends the goats to "eternal punishment prepared for the devil". After the 1000 year reign of Christ on the earth, the devil will be released from "sheol" and once again wreak havoc on the earth and form the armies of Gog and Magog and wage war against Christ and His servants. After this war Christ will reign supreme and EVERYTHING will be consumed by fire. The devil and his followers will be cast into the lake of fire and God will create a new heaven and a new earth. There the faithful will once again live in the paradise that God originally intended. In 1 Corinthians (I believe) it says "know you not that you shall judge men and angels" if we are to judge men, then what is to become of that judgment if not that some are condemned?

Well I think I have made my point and will not over state my opinion.

James

RainbowTrout's photo
Wed 04/30/08 07:23 AM
I am starting to believe there is a religious hell as mentioned in the Bible and a spiritual hell that we can put ourselves through. In the Bible one could look at it where one could put unsavable sinners. It brings me to a question I have been pondering of whether it is more important to have someone or something to save you or to try to save yourself. I believe one can save one's self in a spiritual sense by accentuating the positive. It is like there is more than just one type of hell. I have been studying the work of Florence Nightingale and her call to the field of nursing.

RainbowTrout's photo
Wed 04/30/08 07:39 AM
Luk 5:31 And Jesus answering said unto them, They that are whole need not a physician: but they that are sick.

I like this verse because Jesus was called the great physician. :smile:

MirrorMirror's photo
Wed 04/30/08 10:18 AM
flowerforyou Christians don't have to figure anything out.flowerforyou Your the only one who is confused.flowerforyou It all makes sense, and has made sense for thousands of years. flowerforyou Just because you don't understand it doesn't mean that others do not.flowerforyou

yashafox_F4X1's photo
Wed 04/30/08 09:54 PM
Edited by yashafox_F4X1 on Wed 04/30/08 09:54 PM
Celestial, Terrestrial, Tellestial or outer darkness. Pick one, a through d and take a train to happy town! Woo woo!

Seriously, tho, interesting info, RT!

yzrabbit1's photo
Thu 05/01/08 07:22 PM

interesting as it might be, there are many flaws in it. Some people need to pick back up their bibles and put down the "other sources" of "information". "Casting down imaginations and every high thing that exalts itself against the knowledge of God". ( believe that is an exact quote, too lazy this morning to go look it up) As Christians we need to remember this. Many people have had "thoughts" or "ideas" about what we think God would do based on what WE would do. This idea of universal salvation is just one fine example of such an idea. Yes it is true, "God is not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance." However, this is not going to be the case. God Himself will not put anyone in hell, their sins will drag them there. Yes, God is merciful, but He is also perfect justice. His justice DEMANDS that sin is paid for, and unless a person is willing to accept the sacrifice of Christ for their own their sin remains. Even in the "end" when He returns for us, Christ will still meet out justice on His church. Read in Matthew the parable of the Sheep and the Goats, in this parable Christ returns and gathers HIS OWN and divides them. He clearly sends the goats to "eternal punishment prepared for the devil". After the 1000 year reign of Christ on the earth, the devil will be released from "sheol" and once again wreak havoc on the earth and form the armies of Gog and Magog and wage war against Christ and His servants. After this war Christ will reign supreme and EVERYTHING will be consumed by fire. The devil and his followers will be cast into the lake of fire and God will create a new heaven and a new earth. There the faithful will once again live in the paradise that God originally intended. In 1 Corinthians (I believe) it says "know you not that you shall judge men and angels" if we are to judge men, then what is to become of that judgment if not that some are condemned?

Well I think I have made my point and will not over state my opinion.

James


Ive read this same interpretation by others. The thing that confuses me is if God did this once and man "sinned" then he thought about destroying it but let Noah and his family start it over and again they messed it up . So he had to send his son to clean out all sin and now we all mess it up again.

It sounds like he is just going to give everyone a chance and they are going to mess it up again when the new earth comes.

Is he not bright enough to learn by what has happened in the past?