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| Topic: Fried hummingbird | |
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This is an interesting issue, and a quite difficult one for me. And one that I discuss a lot with my sister. We don’t argue about. Although she has strong feelings that we should all be vegans, whilst I’m not really passionate about either side.
I agree that it’s nature’s way for animals to eat other animals. But if you take that to the extreme, there were also cannibalistic humans too. So based on that premise then it should be natural for humans to eat other humans as well. I think the point made there is that we can’t just say that something is natural and use that as an excuse to do it. The whole idea is that we have come beyond that. We are intelligent and more educated now and we have a choice. Whereas in the wild we didn’t have the choices we have today. My sister argues that we have the ability to live on a purely vegetarian diet. She even argues that it’s been show to be healthier anyway. I personally think she has two very valid points there. But neither of those are based on morality. The morality question becomes quite difficult. It simply isn’t feasible in today’s world to allow all animals to just multiply at will. If we did that they would become a serious problem. There can be no doubt about that. It’s a matter of practicality that we keep things in check. Had mankind not been killing we’d be seriously overrun by pests. It really does come down to them or us in the long run. The questions then become, “How do we manage them?”, and “Should we be purposefully rasiting them for food in inhumane conditions?”. I think now we are looking at moral questions. Is hunting good animal management? I think not. Why not? Because hunters seek out the biggest and best prey. They don’t shoot at the scrawny runts, they shoot at the biggest and best trophies (or the healthiest looking meat if they are hunting for food). Well, killing the cream of the crop is not good animal management. So hunting doesn’t qualify as a good means of animal management. Is it immoral? I don’t know. I think that’s an individual call. I don’t pass judgments like that on other people. I do think that raising animals in inhumane conditions for processed food is immoral. (personal opinion) And not meant to knock farmers who raise animals in humane conditions. I’m talking about inhumane conditions here. But that’s not hunting so that’s off-topic anyway. 
I don’t see a need to hunt in this day and age. We have the technology and ability to be vegetarians. I also don’t understand the need or desire (or thrill) of killing an animal. I can understand the thrill of the hunt (but that can be done with a camera). I don’t understand the need or desire to kill. It’s a very complex topic. I can’t give an easy ‘yes’ or ‘no’ answer. I can only say that hunting is not for me. But I do still eat meat. Although, I’m trying to become a vegetarian (again), it’s not easy since I don’t garden anymore. Commercial food sources really are heavily laden with animal food products. I actually need to go out of my way to become a vegetarian. I wish it wasn’t like that. Where are all the vegetarian fast food joints???? |
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when hunting is just for the mere pleasure of men, it's absolutely wrong.
but when it is done just to satisfy a necesity and when it is done in just the exact amount required to fulfill such a necessity. Then and only then hunting should be allowed. |
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laid....zap is a trouble maker that steals my popcorn...get him hehehe
and who gave zap the steak knifes??????? I knew you would like this topic abra lol |
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Edited by
creativesoul
on
Fri 04/25/08 09:21 PM
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You like that humour there Zap?
Fish do not have feelings they do not know any differently... they do, however remember negative cues... 
Nothing inhumane unless, of course, you have sympathy for the fishies plight... I do not! I am a fisherman... I cannot!
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laid....zap is a trouble maker that steals my popcorn...get him hehehe and who gave zap the steak knifes??????? I knew you would like this topic abra lol |
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IMO...the native americans had the right idea. they don't waste anything and only kill what they need
my aunt is vegan too...but I don't get why animals are here then???? not just to look at. there are some animals that I don't find pretty and certainly don't want them as pets lol. so why are they here???? the song circle of life comes to mind...want me to sing it???? lol |
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If we cut all the trees, the earth wouldn't have a way to cleanse it's polluted air. Only God could have created such a beautiful thing as a tree! But we are smart enough to plant new trees. What I mean to say is, eventually the human race will be so advanced we'll be completely self-reliant. We will have machines that can do anything from cleaning the air to producing food to destroying diseases. Eventually we will be God, since we'll be able to control everything. But we can never get to that point if we keep telling ourselves that Man is a sickly little worm just waiting to be crushed under God's heel, a pathetic whelp who should live a life of submission and constantly feel guilty about his own existence. Religion was a good thing to help primitive man carry on, but nowadays I think it is just holding us back as a species and as individuals. Don't be so hard on yourself man! we don't see you that way. 
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If we cut all the trees, the earth wouldn't have a way to cleanse it's polluted air. Only God could have created such a beautiful thing as a tree! But we are smart enough to plant new trees. What I mean to say is, eventually the human race will be so advanced we'll be completely self-reliant. We will have machines that can do anything from cleaning the air to producing food to destroying diseases. Eventually we will be God, since we'll be able to control everything. But we can never get to that point if we keep telling ourselves that Man is a sickly little worm just waiting to be crushed under God's heel, a pathetic whelp who should live a life of submission and constantly feel guilty about his own existence. Religion was a good thing to help primitive man carry on, but nowadays I think it is just holding us back as a species and as individuals. Ok, lets talk from a Spiritual standpoint, instead of a religious one. Man is cruel and will not subject to curing diseases from fear of losing money on the treatment of the disease. Trust me, God provided the cure, and man is the big heel that will crush us in the end. Humans are self destructive. Only God can be God! |
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You like that humour there Zap?
Fish do not have feelings they do not know any differently... they do, however remember negative cues...
Nothing inhumane unless, of course, you have sympathy for the fishies plight... I do not! I am a fisherman... I cannot!
Darn near peed my pants! I laughed so hard the cats took off running.
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when hunting is just for the mere pleasure of men, it's absolutely wrong. but when it is done just to satisfy a necesity and when it is done in just the exact amount required to fulfill such a necessity. Then and only then hunting should be allowed. Actually, everything should be allowed. Everything except theft, rape, and murder of other human beings. As long as it doesn't hurt other human beings or their property, it is an insult to the human race to ban it. Why should I care if other people want to kill animals for fun? They are not my animals or anyone elses, so let them have fun! I think the only hunting which should be prohibited is the hunting of endangered species, since that destroys biological records of the ancient past and eliminates something we can learn a lot about or use to great advantage in society. |
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creative...i disagree with you. fish have feelings. if you want proof of that...watch "finding nemo" lmao. and because of your little joke there...if zap makes a mess...YOU clean it up lmao
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Speaking of food, the price has gone up, on meat and everything
else, last year 25% of all americas grain was used 2 make ethenol fuel, This year it is going 2 be one third, all that grain was used 2 feed meat critters, Now the price has gone up 2 'make' meat, many 3rd world countries that usto eat a lot of grains began 2 be able 2 afford meat, Now both are in short supplie. The worlds grain supplies are the LOWEST now in the last 30 years, BUT the earths population is mutch higher now than 30 yrs ago. |
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Call me cruel, I guess... I am waiting on Artsy to come and apprehend me... 
Her no like fishing...
Her is sympathetic like that to them fishies. She'll just havta read a book, I suppose, while us guys do tha fishin'...
 Hey... come ta think of it... I better hide me equipment!!!
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Speaking of food, the price has gone up, on meat and everything else, last year 25% of all americas grain was used 2 make ethenol fuel, This year it is going 2 be one third, all that grain was used 2 feed meat critters, Now the price has gone up 2 'make' meat, many 3rd world countries that usto eat a lot of grains began 2 be able 2 afford meat, Now both are in short supplie. The worlds grain supplies are the LOWEST now in the last 30 years, BUT the earths population is mutch higher now than 30 yrs ago. We'd have a lot more food if we wouldn't send so much of ours to goddamn Africa and Iraq. Countries should mind their own business. |
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This is an interesting issue, and a quite difficult one for me. And one that I discuss a lot with my sister. We don’t argue about. Although she has strong feelings that we should all be vegans, whilst I’m not really passionate about either side. I agree that it’s nature’s way for animals to eat other animals. But if you take that to the extreme, there were also cannibalistic humans too. So based on that premise then it should be natural for humans to eat other humans as well. I think the point made there is that we can’t just say that something is natural and use that as an excuse to do it. The whole idea is that we have come beyond that. We are intelligent and more educated now and we have a choice. Whereas in the wild we didn’t have the choices we have today. My sister argues that we have the ability to live on a purely vegetarian diet. She even argues that it’s been show to be healthier anyway. I personally think she has two very valid points there. But neither of those are based on morality. The morality question becomes quite difficult. It simply isn’t feasible in today’s world to allow all animals to just multiply at will. If we did that they would become a serious problem. There can be no doubt about that. It’s a matter of practicality that we keep things in check. Had mankind not been killing we’d be seriously overrun by pests. It really does come down to them or us in the long run. The questions then become, “How do we manage them?”, and “Should we be purposefully rasiting them for food in inhumane conditions?”. I think now we are looking at moral questions. Is hunting good animal management? I think not. Why not? Because hunters seek out the biggest and best prey. They don’t shoot at the scrawny runts, they shoot at the biggest and best trophies (or the healthiest looking meat if they are hunting for food). Well, killing the cream of the crop is not good animal management. So hunting doesn’t qualify as a good means of animal management. Is it immoral? I don’t know. I think that’s an individual call. I don’t pass judgments like that on other people. I do think that raising animals in inhumane conditions for processed food is immoral. (personal opinion) And not meant to knock farmers who raise animals in humane conditions. I’m talking about inhumane conditions here. But that’s not hunting so that’s off-topic anyway.
I don’t see a need to hunt in this day and age. We have the technology and ability to be vegetarians. I also don’t understand the need or desire (or thrill) of killing an animal. I can understand the thrill of the hunt (but that can be done with a camera). I don’t understand the need or desire to kill. It’s a very complex topic. I can’t give an easy ‘yes’ or ‘no’ answer. I can only say that hunting is not for me. But I do still eat meat. Although, I’m trying to become a vegetarian (again), it’s not easy since I don’t garden anymore. Commercial food sources really are heavily laden with animal food products. I actually need to go out of my way to become a vegetarian. I wish it wasn’t like that. Where are all the vegetarian fast food joints???? Ok, question... Are plants not alive as well? How come we pick the ripe juicy tomatoes instead of the little green ones? How do you morally justify being a vegetarian over a meat eater? |
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when hunting is just for the mere pleasure of men, it's absolutely wrong. but when it is done just to satisfy a necesity and when it is done in just the exact amount required to fulfill such a necessity. Then and only then hunting should be allowed. Actually, everything should be allowed. Everything except theft, rape, and murder of other human beings. As long as it doesn't hurt other human beings or their property, it is an insult to the human race to ban it. Why should I care if other people want to kill animals for fun? They are not my animals or anyone elses, so let them have fun! I think the only hunting which should be prohibited is the hunting of endangered species, since that destroys biological records of the ancient past and eliminates something we can learn a lot about or use to great advantage in society. How do some animals become endangered? |
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Speaking of food, the price has gone up, on meat and everything else, last year 25% of all americas grain was used 2 make ethenol fuel, This year it is going 2 be one third, all that grain was used 2 feed meat critters, Now the price has gone up 2 'make' meat, many 3rd world countries that usto eat a lot of grains began 2 be able 2 afford meat, Now both are in short supplie. The worlds grain supplies are the LOWEST now in the last 30 years, BUT the earths population is mutch higher now than 30 yrs ago. We'd have a lot more food if we wouldn't send so much of ours to goddamn Africa and Iraq. Countries should mind their own business. Easy Turbo! |
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Thomas...
What do you suggest? |
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abra....is your sister a vagan because of a religious belief or that is just her view???? my aunt is vegan because of a religious belief...just not sure which one it is this week lol. she changes all the time
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Speaking of food, the price has gone up, on meat and everything else, last year 25% of all americas grain was used 2 make ethenol fuel, This year it is going 2 be one third, all that grain was used 2 feed meat critters, Now the price has gone up 2 'make' meat, many 3rd world countries that usto eat a lot of grains began 2 be able 2 afford meat, Now both are in short supplie. The worlds grain supplies are the LOWEST now in the last 30 years, BUT the earths population is mutch higher now than 30 yrs ago. We'd have a lot more food if we wouldn't send so much of ours to goddamn Africa and Iraq. Countries should mind their own business. Yes! Oooorah! We have bumper crops every year! We should pile the excess grain and burn it. Natural selection! Woo hoo! Can't grow food in the sand dunes? Sucks to be you. So starve!
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