Community > Posts By > raiderfan_32

 
raiderfan_32's photo
Thu 08/20/09 12:54 PM
no kidding.. where are the daily CodePink rallies outside the white house? Will Cindy Sheehan be demonstating outside Martha's Vineyard when the Obama's go on vacation?


raiderfan_32's photo
Thu 08/20/09 11:07 AM
Edited by raiderfan_32 on Thu 08/20/09 11:31 AM


IF we find the capability to manipulate genetics, it must be very limited and it must be available to anyone. To offer such technology only to the elite means that we will be creating a society were class has only two divions, the genetically weak and the genetically altered.


Well, if history is any example of human behavior we can count on the rich and powerful getting their way whilst the peasants remain beggars.

To think that's going to change is truly a pipe dream. Why should that change? We live in a society that is based on competition.

What you're talking about is socialism. You'd be booed off the floor at a political rally.


let me ask a question in response to this post.

are there drugs available at the drugstore now on an OTC basis that were prescription only just a few years ago and that have generic equvialent which were not available at first? The examples I'm thinking of include drugs like Claritin. When it first came out, it was highly expensive and only available by prescription.

Why is that? why couldn't the mfr just make it available OTC to begin with and just release the patent so that generics could be made right out of the gates?

I'll tell you why. Research is expensive. Researchers are expensive. The process of making a new drug is possibly one of the most capital intensive undertakings out there, with the possible exception of drilling deep sea oil wells.. and it largely goes without payoff until the drug is approved, tested, re-tested and finally released to the public.

So when the drug is new, the cost of all that process required to bring it to market has to be recovered or else they go out of business and no more future research gets to be undertaken. No more new drugs. no more new and revolutionary treatments get developed.

So when you bash the rich (and I'm not amoung them) for being the only ones to benefit initially from a new (and expensive) treatment/drug/therapy, you in effect bash the process that brought that treatment/drug/therapy to bear in the first place. such is not constructive and not amenable to progress.

raiderfan_32's photo
Thu 08/20/09 10:31 AM
I guess all the usual suspects are running off to the dailykos, democratunderground and the huffington post to get the partyline talking points..

raiderfan_32's photo
Thu 08/20/09 10:02 AM
because it's artificial. that's why.

And in case you haven't heard, as of now most dealers have been losing money on these deals.. The Gubment can say "the check's in the mail" but until it arrives and clears the bank, it's as well as not having it in the first place..

what happens if the government decides there are some mystery errors in the applications and they get denied? All those cars are already out on the roads with subsidized subprime loans backing them.. The dealers are left with their junk in their hands and on the hook for all that revenue that was supposed to come from the Fed.

They won't be able to sue for it. In that eventuality, the whole thing will be a total loss....

that's what's wrong with it..

raiderfan_32's photo
Thu 08/20/09 09:55 AM
Edited by raiderfan_32 on Thu 08/20/09 09:56 AM
The proposed strategy of manufacturing crisis for the purpose of overloading the system with the intention of breaking it, the Cloward-Pivin Strategy borrows heavily from the strategies of Saul Alinsky, author of the book "Rules for Radicals", a major influence on Obama's political philosophy and someone plenty of people on this board have defended as a simple "community organizer".

Promise the moon and when the moon (predictibly) can't be delivered, the blame will be placed on capitalism itself, prompting a populist movement to nationalize and socialize all aspets of the American Economy and by extention, American Life..

First proposed in 1966 and named after Columbia University sociologists Richard Andrew Cloward and Frances Fox Piven, the "Cloward-Piven Strategy" seeks to hasten the fall of capitalism by overloading the government bureaucracy with a flood of impossible demands, thus pushing society into crisis and economic collapse.

Inspired by the August 1965 riots in the black district of Watts in Los Angeles (which erupted after police had used batons to subdue a black man suspected of drunk driving), Cloward and Piven published an article titled "The Weight of the Poor: A Strategy to End Poverty" in the May 2, 1966 issue of The Nation. Following its publication, The Nation sold an unprecedented 30,000 reprints. Activists were abuzz over the so-called "crisis strategy" or "Cloward-Piven Strategy," as it came to be called. Many were eager to put it into effect.

In their 1966 article, Cloward and Piven charged that the ruling classes used welfare to weaken the poor; that by providing a social safety net, the rich doused the fires of rebellion. Poor people can advance only when "the rest of society is afraid of them," Cloward told The New York Times on September 27, 1970. Rather than placating the poor with government hand-outs, wrote Cloward and Piven, activists should work to sabotage and destroy the welfare system; the collapse of the welfare state would ignite a political and financial crisis that would rock the nation; poor people would rise in revolt; only then would "the rest of society" accept their demands.

The key to sparking this rebellion would be to expose the inadequacy of the welfare state. Cloward-Piven's early promoters cited radical organizer Saul Alinsky as their inspiration. "Make the enemy live up to their (sic) own book of rules," Alinsky wrote in his 1972 book Rules for Radicals. When pressed to honor every word of every law and statute, every Judaeo-Christian moral tenet, and every implicit promise of the liberal social contract, human agencies inevitably fall short. The system's failure to "live up" to its rule book can then be used to discredit it altogether, and to replace the capitalist "rule book" with a socialist one.

The authors noted that the number of Americans subsisting on welfare -- about 8 million, at the time -- probably represented less than half the number who were technically eligible for full benefits. They proposed a "massive drive to recruit the poor onto the welfare rolls." Cloward and Piven calculated that persuading even a fraction of potential welfare recipients to demand their entitlements would bankrupt the system. The result, they predicted, would be "a profound financial and political crisis" that would unleash "powerful forces … for major economic reform at the national level."

Their article called for "cadres of aggressive organizers" to use "demonstrations to create a climate of militancy." Intimidated by threats of black violence, politicians would appeal to the federal government for help. Carefully orchestrated media campaigns, carried out by friendly, leftwing journalists, would float the idea of "a federal program of income redistribution," in the form of a guaranteed living income for all -- working and non-working people alike. Local officials would clutch at this idea like drowning men to a lifeline. They would apply pressure on Washington to implement it. With every major city erupting into chaos, Washington would have to act.

This was an example of what are commonly called Trojan Horse movements -- mass movements whose outward purpose seems to be providing material help to the downtrodden, but whose real objective is to draft poor people into service as revolutionary foot soldiers; to mobilize poor people en masse to overwhelm government agencies with a flood of demands beyond the capacity of those agencies to meet. The flood of demands was calculated to break the budget, jam the bureaucratic gears into gridlock, and bring the system crashing down. Fear, turmoil, violence and economic collapse would accompany such a breakdown -- providing perfect conditions for fostering radical change. That was the theory.

Cloward and Piven recruited a militant black organizer named George Wiley to lead their new movement. In the summer of 1967, Wiley founded the National Welfare Rights Organization (NWRO). His tactics closely followed the recommendations set out in Cloward and Piven's article. His followers invaded welfare offices across the United States -- often violently -- bullying social workers and loudly demanding every penny to which the law "entitled" them. By 1969, NWRO claimed a dues-paying membership of 22,500 families, with 523 chapters across the nation.

Regarding Wiley's tactics, The New York Times commented on September 27, 1970, "There have been sit-ins in legislative chambers, including a United States Senate committee hearing, mass demonstrations of several thousand welfare recipients, school boycotts, picket lines, mounted police, tear gas, arrests - and, on occasion, rock-throwing, smashed glass doors, overturned desks, scattered papers and ripped-out phones."These methods proved effective. "The flooding succeeded beyond Wiley's wildest dreams," writes Sol Stern in the City Journal. "From 1965 to 1974, the number of single-parent households on welfare soared from 4.3 million to 10.8 million, despite mostly flush economic times. By the early 1970s, one person was on the welfare rolls in New York City for every two working in the city's private economy."As a direct result of its massive welfare spending, New York City was forced to declare bankruptcy in 1975. The entire state of New York nearly went down with it. The Cloward-Piven strategy had proved its effectiveness.

The Cloward-Piven strategy depended on surprise. Once society recovered from the initial shock, the backlash began. New York's welfare crisis horrified America, giving rise to a reform movement which culminated in "the end of welfare as we know it" -- the 1996 Personal Responsibility and Work Opportunity Reconciliation Act, which imposed time limits on federal welfare, along with strict eligibility and work requirements. Both Cloward and Piven attended the White House signing of the bill as guests of President Clinton.

Most Americans to this day have never heard of Cloward and Piven. But New York City Mayor Rudolph Giuliani attempted to expose them in the late 1990s. As his drive for welfare reform gained momentum, Giuliani accused the militant scholars by name, citing their 1966 manifesto as evidence that they had engaged in deliberate economic sabotage. "This wasn't an accident," Giuliani charged in a 1997 speech. "It wasn't an atmospheric thing, it wasn't supernatural. This is the result of policies and programs designed to have the maximum number of people get on welfare."

Cloward and Piven never again revealed their intentions as candidly as they had in their 1966 article. Even so, their activism in subsequent years continued to rely on the tactic of overloading the system. When the public caught on to their welfare scheme, Cloward and Piven simply moved on, applying pressure to other sectors of the bureaucracy, wherever they detected weakness.

In 1982, partisans of the Cloward-Piven strategy founded a new "voting rights movement," which purported to take up the unfinished work of the Voting Rights Act of 1965. Like ACORN, the organization that spear-headed this campaign, the new "voting rights" movement was led by veterans of George Wiley's welfare rights crusade. Its flagship organizations were Project Vote and Human SERVE, both founded in 1982. Project Vote is an ACORN front group, launched by former NWRO organizer and ACORN co-founder Zach Polett. Human SERVE was founded by Richard A. Cloward and Frances Fox Piven, along with a former NWRO organizer named Hulbert James.

All three of these organizations -- ACORN, Project Vote and Human SERVE -- set to work lobbying energetically for the so-called Motor-Voter law, which Bill Clinton ultimately signed in 1993. The Motor-Voter bill is largely responsible for swamping the voter rolls with "dead wood" -- invalid registrations signed in the name of deceased, ineligible or non-existent people -- thus opening the door to the unprecedented levels of voter fraud and "voter disenfranchisement" claims that followed in subsequent elections.

The new "voting rights" coalition combines mass voter registration drives -- typically featuring high levels of fraud -- with systematic intimidation of election officials in the form of frivolous lawsuits, unfounded charges of "racism" and "disenfranchisement," and "direct action" (street protests, violent or otherwise). Just as they swamped America's welfare offices in the 1960s, Cloward-Piven devotees now seek to overwhelm the nation's understaffed and poorly policed electoral system. Their tactics set the stage for the Florida recount crisis of 2000, and have introduced a level of fear, tension and foreboding to U.S. elections heretofore encountered mainly in Third World countries.

Both the Living Wage and Voting Rights movements depend heavily on financial support from George Soros's Open Society Institute and his "Shadow Party," through whose support the Cloward-Piven strategy continues to provide a blueprint for some of the Left's most ambitious campaigns.


http://www.discoverthenetworks.org/groupProfile.asp?grpid=6967

raiderfan_32's photo
Thu 08/20/09 09:37 AM
too bad there are draconian gun ownership restrictions in the UK.. I can imagine what would happen to this a-hole if he were let loose on Texas..

They'd issue hunting stamps..

raiderfan_32's photo
Thu 08/20/09 09:35 AM
maybe it's going well in St. Louis rt now but what happens when the program ends in a couple of weeks and the dealers still have to try to move cars? The up tick in traffic is widely interpreted as speeding up pent up demand. What happens when the candle that's been burnt from both ends runs out? The light goes out.

Now all the dealers that have been running low on capital on account of the CARS program are going to feel the squeeze during what is typically a slow fall and winter season to begin with..

The law of unintended consequences is rearing it's ugly head again.

raiderfan_32's photo
Wed 08/19/09 03:34 PM
In theory, what you say is generally right but the ethical issues inherently involved with "genetic screening" for the purposes of reproduction are far too heavy for most people to be comfortable with.

I mean suppose you go in for screening and you end up being told you have a predisposition to XYZ condition and that predisposition is as much as guaranteed to be passed off to your offspring... ok, now what? it's no guarantee that such a predisposition will manifest itself in disease but..

What happens when "the wrong people" get ahold of this information? Suppose it gets tabulated and compiled such that there now exist lists of people with genetic predispositions to certain ailments..

what now? now your name is on a list of the genetically undesireable. Do you want to be officially labeled genetically undesireable? what happens when the "genetically desireable" get together and decide to do something about the "undesirables"

The Nazi's engaged in eugenics and eugenics was even popular on this side of the pond in the early part of the last century amoung meidcal and scientific communinities.

I think it's a dangerous road to go down with no way to close the box..

jmo

raiderfan_32's photo
Wed 08/19/09 01:32 PM

mmmmmmm kool aid



I agree with winxie that, for the protection of the Prez, they shouldn't allow armed people near him

and at the same time the people were outside the building and the Prez was inside the building

and I can understand how the east coast/west coast journalists would freak out that Arizona would not only allow people to own guns but even carry them around


Arizona doesn't "allow" people to own and carry guns; it simply respects (i.e. doesn't violate) the Bill of rights by restricting their people from their inherent human right to keep and bear the means to their own self defense..

more states should follow AZ's example..

raiderfan_32's photo
Wed 08/19/09 01:00 PM


shouldn't feminists be insulted by this? comparing women with "a lttle extra" to whales?


not a feminist and I am insulted - that billboard should be removed!!!





yeah, I shouldn't just say feminists.. I can see just about any woman thinking this campaign being less than tasteful


raiderfan_32's photo
Wed 08/19/09 12:04 PM
shouldn't feminists be insulted by this? comparing women with "a lttle extra" to whales?

raiderfan_32's photo
Wed 08/19/09 11:30 AM
btw, I wonder where the shortage of used cars originates..

I wonder if there's any relation to the fact that trade-ins under the clunker program are, by law, completely disabled, engines forced to seize and thrown on the scrap heap.

raiderfan_32's photo
Wed 08/19/09 11:14 AM

perhaps, their papers were not in order.....


are you alleging that 98% of the paperwork wasn't in order? and but for screwed up paperwork, all these deals would have been reimbursed?

you've got to be kidding..

mistakes happen, yes. to err is human but I have to doubt that professional car dealers made clerical errors at 98% clip, especially if each one cost them $4500..

come on, you can do better than that..

raiderfan_32's photo
Wed 08/19/09 11:09 AM

"At many dealerships, in fact, the biggest problem is the quickly shrinking inventory. Rick Collins Toyota Scion in Sioux City, Iowa, normally would have some 120 new cars on the lot. Today, there are about 15."

"Carmakers are also struggling to keep up. General Motors, for example, said it is boosting production by building an additional 60,000 vehicles before the end of the year. But it's not clear whether the additional cars will arrive quickly enough."

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=112019854



How intellectually honest of you to leave out the paragraphs between the two snipets you cherry picked from that article..

I'll post it in it's original context, just for the record..

A Welcome Problem: Shrinking Inventory

One factor that appears to be making a difference is that the incentive program is from the government rather than an automaker or a dealer. "That in itself lends a bit of legitimacy for people who might have been skeptical beforehand," Caldwell says.

She adds that some dealerships are running advertisements that tout government rebates without offering details, which may drive extra customers into their showrooms.

At many dealerships, in fact, the biggest problem is the quickly shrinking inventory. Rick Collins Toyota Scion in Sioux City, Iowa, normally would have some 120 new cars on the lot. Today, there are about 15.

"Relief is coming, but I just hope it's soon," says Kirk Kneifl, the general sales manager at the dealership. "Put it this way: We're not running new car ads in the paper for the rest of the month."

Another frustration comes from delays in the government's processing of reimbursement claims. "Dealers just need the government to speed up the payment process for the clunker deals," Taylor says.

Carmakers are also struggling to keep up. General Motors, for example, said it is boosting production by building an additional 60,000 vehicles before the end of the year. But it's not clear whether the additional cars will arrive quickly enough.

"It's a Catch-22, where the auto dealers may need more supply now, but by the time it comes, it may be too late," Caldwell says. "In late fall, when auto sales slow down, the manufacturers may find themselves in a position where they have to offer large incentives again."

raiderfan_32's photo
Wed 08/19/09 10:55 AM


NEW YORK (AP) - A New York dealership group says hundreds of its members have left the Cash for Clunkers program, citing delays in getting reimbursed by the government.

The president of the Greater New York Automobile Dealers Association says about half its 425 members have stopped offering rebates from the program because they can no longer afford them.

Mark Schienberg says the group's dealers have been repaid for only about 2 percent of the clunkers deals they've made, leaving many short on cash.

The program offers up to $4,500 to shoppers who trade in gas guzzlers for a more fuel-efficient vehicle. Dealers pay the rebates out of pocket then must wait to be reimbursed by the government, but administrative snags have created a bottleneck in unpaid claims.


http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D9A63DK01&show_article=1

Only 2% of the deals have been refunded to the dealers by the gov't.

And these clowns want us to let them run the healthcare industry?? This administration can't even run a used car lot!

raiderfan_32's photo
Wed 08/19/09 09:49 AM
that's cool.. I understand it's not THE solution to the littany of problems that exist but...

no one has told me how it's a bad idea.

So it doesn't help everyone. It WILL help a good many people.. There are plenty of people out there who work and have kids (or other dependants, parents etc) with chronic illnesses out there and it would be a great help to them to be able to defray the costs of the ongoing care for a loved one, etc.

There are plenty of people out there that could benefit from extending the limits of contributions to the HSA's..

just that it can't help everyone doesn't mean that it should be condemned for all those it could help.

raiderfan_32's photo
Tue 08/18/09 05:43 PM


So why no support for the proposals that would repeal the limits (or extend them) on the amount of pre-tax income into health savings accounts?

It seems to me that it would be a good idea and a boon for people that have recurring or predictable healthcare costs to cover those costs with pre-tax dollars. It would actually represent a tax cut for most people letting them reduce their federal income tax liability and provide people the ability to provide for the costs of their own healthcare costs.

win-win for the American People..

why not?? Why is there no support for this idea amoung Democrats on the Hill and in the White House???

Obama promised a tax cut for the middle class. There it is. Take it and go.


Not everyone could afford to save for the kind of costs out there for health care out of pocket like that.


why should that matter? most Americans can and to allow people to reduce their tax liability while saving towards paying for the care they need should be seen as two birds with one stone..

besides, wasn't it Lincoln who said "you can't please all the people all the time" ??

why should those who can afford to help themselves be restricted from doing so?? just so someone like you can sit back and say "We want to help everybody" ??

Life in America provides for equal opportunity, not equal outcome.. please get used to that.. Life isn't fair. Ups and downs..

But for all that, I think the more-to-the-point answer is that all these folks out there seem to think they're entitled to healthcare that someone else must pay for.. same way they've had lunches at public school paid for, same way they get their grocery bills paid for, same way they got that Zero-down home loan that they're now defaulted on, and on and on and on..

where does it end?

raiderfan_32's photo
Tue 08/18/09 05:34 PM
so U2 has been going strong for going on 30 years now, although the last album I thought was any good came out back in 1993(or thereabouts)..

I heard them on a commercial (you've seen it) the other day and when I saw it for the first time and the opening chords began to emminate from Edge's guitar, I thought, "Hey cool, 'where the streets have no name' " But it wasn't 'Streets' it was some other song that's come out fairly recently..

my question or statement is this: In all those jam session and recording sessions, has no one in the band leaned over and asked Edge if he knew any other guitar riffs?? I mean he's been milking that riff for 25 years or more..

just food for thought.

raiderfan_32's photo
Tue 08/18/09 04:51 PM
the thundering silence vis-a-vis the lack of response here is indicant to me that the lack of support in congress for such a proposal lies specifically in the fact that it enhances individual liberties and denies the autocratic control over the lives of the American people that the current PublicOption/ObamaCare proposal guarantees..

thanks for confirming this for me!

raiderfan_32's photo
Tue 08/18/09 02:19 PM
So why no support for the proposals that would repeal the limits (or extend them) on the amount of pre-tax income into health savings accounts?

It seems to me that it would be a good idea and a boon for people that have recurring or predictable healthcare costs to cover those costs with pre-tax dollars. It would actually represent a tax cut for most people letting them reduce their federal income tax liability and provide people the ability to provide for the costs of their own healthcare costs.

win-win for the American People..

why not?? Why is there no support for this idea amoung Democrats on the Hill and in the White House???

Obama promised a tax cut for the middle class. There it is. Take it and go.