I have no hard feelings about you and hope that you have none to me..My belief is a total collapse, not just of our country, but of the whole world economy..Then out of the dust will rise a one world ecomomy, one world government.. But that is only based on my knowledge of what the bible says will happen, I do not expect or think others will agree with that.

We have nobody but ourselves to blame for the goverment, we as a people don't get involved with the voting process..and when we do, we vote in people that are dishonest and cause lots of problems...How many out of some 300 some odd million people in this country vote?? Then complain because of the way things are going?

For those that feel that the government is corrupt and cannot be trusted..show me a government that is not filled with dishonest people...then move there...or work to change the standards of our politicians here..

From my reading of alot of these postings, and on other threads, there are alot of people that feel that the opposing views are infringing on their rights..when discussing things in a civilized way, you would think that opposing views could be talked about without the assumption that each other is trying to infringe on their rights..

I never said they did, I said that I don't care what laws they pass, for or against gay marriage, as long as they don't force their idiology on the church.. you must not have read the previous postings.

I am a christian and a conservative, and won't be run out of anywhere... But as a christian, I do not believe that this is a christian nation, or founded on those principles, and most of the people I know feel the same..But there are many that do believe this..I agree

The problem with education is that many lack it, and as I have said before and have seen on here..little knowledge, is dangerous.

So what would keep a dishonest person from forming a business and letting fail, just so they can get you to pay higher taxes to bail them out..remember your cry for equal and fair treatment??

The wall was not built to keep the influence of any church out of the state, it's intent was to prohibit the state from imposing a particular religious belief as the correct one and one you should follow.

You cannot possibly keep the religious views of people out of their decision making..it is impossible to seperate the two..just as it is impossible to separate the non-religious views from people..

I have stated that from the very beginning of my postings..I oppose any law that would require chruches to perform gay marriges if they chose not to, and in some states..like mine, they are trying to force chruches to hire people that oppose the chruch teachings..But if people in this country can get enough people to support gay marriage..go for it, but you can't even get people that don't go to church to support it...in California they are all up in arms about Morman people spending their money against the proposition..where is the outcry against the African American community and the Hispanic communities that overwhelmingly opposed the proposition?? Not happening..lets be fair and equal in our protestations..

I agree, there is nothing stating that this was a christian nation..the intent is consistant with people that were fleeing countries that Kings were demanding that they go to the church that they sanctioned..that is why is was so important to the founding fathers to take into consideration

Those are good ideas...but do you think it is right for me to have to pay for their bungling of their business...and what business are next..airline companies..fastfood companies, retail stores that can't sell their goods?? I bought a turbine windmill..but unfortunately couldn't find a place in the USA that made them for homes..It works on 4mph winds and supplies most of my electrical needs..

Oh and for the record, If people want to get married somewhere besides the chruch, more power to them,if they want to get married by a judge or one of those online pay for the right to perform marriges..great..whatever works for you..that will proably upset you too though..

I agree with you and you disagree with me doing so?? I do not agree with the Catholic chruch making people to pay for annulments or anything..I just said that if it IS IMPORTANT TO YOU, to get married there, then you will have to do what they requrire...If you don't want to get married there or anyother place, it should not be important to you.. I do not agree with mulitple marriages, but people do, so that is their right to believe in that..

Obviously you didn't read what I wrote...or did read it and choose to ignore what I was saying..Did you read the part about judgement?? or is it that you cannot debate well enough to get your point across without making inaccurate statements about them or name calling?? I have each and every time answered your assumptions and questions and you continue to accuse me of not answering them...because you don't like the answer doesn't mean I didn't answer them from MY prospective..

So what is your solutions to the current problem?? Do you support the government bailout of private companies??

So I guess you are the wise..all knowing and only you are right about things?? I have not advocated controling you or anyone else and if you read my statements if you were intelliectually honest, you would agree...The question on this thread was should gay marriage be legal, while I said that if a law was passed giving gay people the right to marry that they feel they don't have now, then by all means go to it, but I do not beleive in it...that is my opinion..I am sorry you can't handle it..

If only our politicians and citizens really understood the way our constitution was designed..great posting.

You are right Tempt..I do not believe that they do this kind of thing, but like I said, if you want to get married through their church, it is their dance and you have to dance to their tune.

Only congress can enact laws, the supreme court determines if it is in line with the constitution, I see no inaccuracy in that. And I was basing my statement on what seems to be the idea that we are all not given equal protection under the constitution,,as I stated before, I believe that we all have equal protections and rights under the constitution, and yes it is the constitution that gives us those rights.

Ok let me start from the top, Red, and I will try to write this clearly and simply because you and the others seem to make assertions that are incorrect. Now try to keep the issues separate here please.

1. You stated that I refuse to give them equal rights...Last time I checked, only the congress can pass a law giving you the same rights as me and others.. I stated my belief, and also said that if a law is passed giving you the right to marry, that it wouldn't affect the church. Most pastors and churches do not support gay marriage..so unless this law forced the church to marry gay people, this law is directed at gay people and those that support it. I see no condridictory statement or anything that was said stating that I wanted to deny you equal rights..instead you twisted what I said...and assumed that I was a gay basher, and wanted to deny your rights...My God teaches me to love everyone, even those that don't adere or follow my belief..and so I can love the sinners that we all are, and still disagree with them..pretty simple huh? Oh, and only God has the ability to punish anyone, so as stated before, I leave that part to Him to decided.

2.The Bible does not say that divorce is a sin, it says that if you divorce for the wrong reason, and marry or have sex with other people, you are living in adultry, and yes God says that adultry is a sin.. I am not sure why you keep asking what punishment I would give them, as I stated many times, only God decides those things..would I treat them any different then I treat gay people?? No, I would love them still the same..will there be punishment because of their sin, how should I know, only they know if they repented of their sin and only God knows their heart..and that is why you have difficulty in your assertions, you cannot know the condition of my heart, so you assume things that are not true.

3. My belief that all men are created equal and our constitution protects all equally is not proven wrong, isn't that what it clearly states?? Because politicians have not passed laws is because you have not held them accountable and have voted into office men and women that do not share your belief..who's fault is that..mine?? I think not. You said something about the supreme court..if they determine that something is in conflict with the constitution, then congress has to either pass a law changing the law or get a constitutional amendment to change the constitution..that is they way it works in America..so who is to blame..

4.I did not say that I knew all the attributes of God, but if you read the bible, you would see that it states some of the attributes of God, but like many others, some just want to look at God as a loving God, that you can do anything and he will love you and everything will be ok..you clearly haven't read the bible. While God is a god of love, forgiveness, kindness and alot of other good qualities, he is also a jealous God, a God of Wrath, a Just God...i believe if you read it you will see these attributes written there.

5. You seem to be hung up on these premise that divorce is a sin..show me in the bible where it is?? Like I said another untrue statement that I never made. I stated that I do not support divorce, but understand that there are circumstances in the bible that divorce is allowed..if you want to argue about that, take it up with God, I didn't say it. My bible also states that sin is sin, none bigger then the other, all the same, and the wage of sin is death..now let me clarify death as in the bible, because I know that you will twist that to mean that I think all sinners should be killed... Death is the bible refers to two kinds.. the physical death and the second death as a spiritual death. The first being when your body dies as we all do, the second being when your soul is cast out from God, never to be with God again..this is the second and infinite death..something you might want to avoid..

6. You say that I continue to "stone" gay people...how have I done that??? Wasn't this thread something to do about gay marriage?? Isn't the purpose of this thread to get people's opinion and discuss them with each other?? or is it just to state your belief that it should be allowed and is ok?? Again your inclusive message is inclusive only to those that support you and believe like you do huh...but exclude everyone that does not think like you...wow, now that is equal and fair..and I don't know who you revere..I don't know who you are talking about??

7.Yes you are right about one thing, there was a lession in this parable, not to judge anyone.. What is your interpretation of judgement?? In the bible, it is to "Pass sentance" on someone..that means that you determine the punishment for their sin..I'm not sure where you got that I am passing judgement on them..Did I say..Because you are gay, you are going to Hell?? Did I pass that judgement onto you?? I think not, I stated that God is the judge and he alone can pass that judgement on anyone..my gosh, did you even read what I have stated??? If I said that someone came in my house and stole all my money, and I called them a thief..am I judging them for that action??? or am I pointing out that the one who did it was a thief?? Now if I said that the thief was going to hell because he stole from me, THEN I would be passing sentance on him, and JUDGING him..I know this is simple, but you seem to have difficulty understanding the simplist of things..

Sin is the only chain of oppression that hampers us, and God clearly gives us the Key to unchain ourselves from it..Jesus, if you chose to remain chained, that is your decision.. I do not oppress anyone.

8.Yes we are all sinner including me, I never stated anything contrary to that. Jesus did offer her freedom...freedom from her sin..He said, now go and Sin no more!..Freedom from the weight or chains of sin...and yes, that is an offer that is extended to all, including you and me. You see God is a just God, and he will treat everyone equally..if you repent of your sin, you will be equally forgiven, if you don't repent, you will equally condemned..pretty simple again.

Winx, loving gay people is the right thing to do, but to say that God is for gay marriage, then you are not reading the bible... I accept them for who they are, I do not treat them any different from anyone of my friends, but if the bible says that we cannot encourage sin, then we cannot overlook sin either..does it mean that we walk around pointing out sinners..as we all are..no, but the question wasn't who in here are sinners..it had to do with supporting gay marriage..something the bible doesn't do.

If the world wants to pass laws allowing gay marriage, then they can, if they want to pass laws allowing 3 men to marry one man, or woman or one man have mulitiple wives, then they can..and I guess we can't leave out animals..they are people too to some people..why rule out marriage to animals??..yuck!! Just so you dont' believe that I support any of those, I don't, but if you are pushing for equallity, why stop at gay people??

The catholic church says that the word of the church, and pope, are equal to the scripture..if they say it, it is as if God said it...if you believe that, then you are subject to it..I do not believe that any church is equal with God, and no man either.. The only time that annulments are important is if you want to get married in a Catholic church, then it is their rule..so you would have to follow it.. A legal divorce is what our laws require, so that is your only stipulation to getting married again..legally, other wise it is just a piece of paper.

Now I know Red you will find fault in what I beleive, you have to, because if you accept what I am saying as truth, it points our the falseness of your own ideology, so I understand your motives and ideology..but if you truly believe in equal rights, and an equal voice for all under this constitiution we live under here in America, you will accept my right to believe what I do, and not exclude me and discrimminate against me for doing it..the same as I believe that you have the right to express your ideas and will not discriminate against you for doing it either and do not think less of you for it..but I doubt that you will be consistant with your own statements of equallity.

Since I missed so much, I would like to continue this tomorrow when i have time to respond..thanks for the good conversations though.. and by the way, gays do not want equity, they have that already in civil unions, gays want acceptance..something they will never get, for those that believe the bible, acceptance is condoning it, compromise and that is something that a Christian cannot do. You have equal rights, you have equal protection under the law...you can never legislate acceptance.. I don't belong to the Catholic chruch, so I don't believe in annulments, the catholic church puts itself on the same pedistal as the Word of God, something the bible says cannot be of God.

Another unfounded statement..it has been proven that this statement by amnesty international is false and even the radical left wing whackos and anti war protester admit that...facts baby not unfounded truths....

And you still didn't have the balls to answer my questions...wow