Now lets be careful not to turn this into people screaming at each other becuase of different beliefs,words and numbers. There are many virtues and good aspects in christianity and i am not attacking or questioning them, but on the subject of belief and when it comes to christians "evangelizing" or ministering to non-believers they need to be able to actually answer those kind of questions otherwise they have no right to go around preaching these things becuase they are just wasting time. That is the point i am trying to make here and claiming that i am attacking or arguing is just another way of being dismissive of questions you can not answer or are unwilling to try. In the end by not answering in a format that is not a repeative quotation of verses or religious dogma. You have to be able to reason with people if you want them to believe what you believe. Problem is most christians can't do that.

I have never heard of a 80 card deck, sounds interesting, perhaps you could tell me more it?
I myself work with a standard 78 card Waite or Marseilles deck.

oh don't get me wrong good sir, I was merely giving how i would intrept the drawing as well as trying to learn more about some of her methodology with the Tarot. I was in no way arguing and am in fact quite fasicinated with the subject.

[Please tell me i right in assuming that to be a joke right? If that is true, how to you work out the Buddhist belief in non-attachment and the Native American spiritual beliefs in worshiping nature. Does not the belief in connecting with nature and it's dieties create a conflict in belief when used with the buddhist idea of non-attachment?

Actually the card in the upright position is associated with hope or plans being fullfilled. It represents mankind's connection to enlightenment, the divine and spiritual freedom.
Also it's postion in a particular spread can affect its meaning, I am working under the assumption that this was a single card draw so i would say that card represents faith and efforts rewarded. Interesting that it is a Major Arcana, did you exlude the minor arcana win drawing from the deck?

How can they, most reason that it has to do with God so it must be right so why question anything in church?

My sensei told me once," Be careful faith must be balanced in accordance with reason, intellect, and evidence which has substance to support it. If this is not done then we only darken the world." Something to think about...

I believe they call what "works" dogma, tradition and blind "faith" in your religion.....

Oh come on!?!?!......better off staying on a thread with my beliefs....
Was not the entire point of this thread to preach the christian message of salvation? So if that is true then logically you intended for non-believers to read it. Therefore one should be subject to their questions. If you can't answer them then don't post this stuff unless your prepared to deal with. People are going to ask these questions get use to it!

Oh i see, i thought you were upset becuase we were making each response so long... My misunderstandering sorry about that..lol

Quikstepper,
I suppose blathering the same things over and over agian is your way of answering things in your mind but you fail to realise that your "answers" are more of a habitual compulsive disorder lacking any sense of reason or justification. Start doing some research and study up on religions and faith. You only prove my point that most christians lack any sense, reason, understanding when it comes to their faith and therefore fail to reach people as a result. Eventually you will start having to face these questions yourself and realize that someone's spiritual text is not reason or proof enough that what you believe is true.
Good luck and may you find the answers....

Sorry Krisma, just trying to prove a point and maybe get people to think for once. If i am being to lengthy it is only becuase i need to address each point and question throughly.

Real world or not how they obtain that money and how they spend it needs to be monitored and controlled. Buy the preacher a new house or his wife a new cadillac is not called "paying the bills." Curruption and using funds donated for charitable reasons as a income,profit or to do things with them other than charitable programs is fraud, selfish and inexcusable.

'
Again case and point for my point that most christians know little of their own faith and beliefs much less have the reasoning to convince others to follow christ.
#1
You still have not answered the question and have a fallacy in your arguement that assumes christianity is the only religion were one reaches paradise, heaven or salvation and escape from the torment of life and its consquences. This is a flawed assumption on your part, had you studied other faiths in a none biased fashion you would have learned many faiths believe their deity will have mercy and compassion on them in the afterlife even if they did none of the required works of the faith.
Speaking of work, doesn't the christian faith require many works both physical and ones of faith? So in reality there is no difference.
2. All faiths claim their texts, wisdom and practices are inspiried by the divine. So with so many claiming this ,just having faith based on practice and the texts does not offer a reasonable arguement for conversion to a particular religion. So answer the question and quit sitting there squawking meaningless verses or saying becuase i,he,she,them said so.
3. Agian answer the question in a way that would convince a non-believer other then just spouting off verses and making statements that just leave more questions....
4. Agian you are just justifying belief based on text. You again are not answering the question with a statement of reason or a logical arguement that would convince the non-believer. Again (who) not what says there is only one way and what proof would provide that would support their statements. How do you jusify a being condemning humans to hell for not knowing or hearing the message? Stating that they know the message when they never hear it or receieve it is utter nonsense.
5.
Quoting verses is in no way an indication of their understanding, wisdom, faith or belief. That is like saying xerox machine becuase it can copy text out of the bible is something with wisdom and divine understanding. You are right that in the end when presented with a reasonable explanation or arguement and their questions are reasonably answered or resolved then they have the responsibility to make a choice. But it is up to people of that faith to provide the non-believer those explanations and answers first before a decision can be made. That is why it irritates when bible thumpers will create a thread about salvation but are unable or completely unwilling to answer such questions and by doing so don't think they are hypocrites or that their faith is questionable.

So again answer the questions.

Morning Song you need to come to terms with this fact: If you (morning song) are going to preach a the message of christian salvation then you need to be able and willing the questions i mentioned otherwise you are just wasting people's time and in all likely hood your faith, and understanding of the divine are questionable. I have reviewed your previous post, none of them answer the said post questions and 98% percent of the quotes are bible verses and statements of admiration. Again i request that you take the time to answer the questions.

QUOTE:
I believe one can take donations for sharing said beliefs, knowledge, and books. All knowledge should be free and charging someone for lack of knowledge and trying to justify it by saying well it costs me something for you to learn it so i need to charge you something. That is like saying a mother should charge her infant before she teaches them to potty train, speak, or eat. Knowledge belongs to all not to just some is all i am saying.
Yes, I hear what you’re saying. What I’m saying is that is not a practical stance. By that logic, colleges and universities should also be free – both tuition and books. And trade schools should be free, as well as any kind of training seminar. Not to mention any non-fiction book of any kind.

And what about the people who search out and discover facts and knowledge? Apparently they shouldn’t be compensated for their work either, so anyone contributing to the any type of research that discovers or gathers knowledge, would have to work for free.

This is not at all practical.

I think knowledge should belong to those who go out and get it. It should belong to those who make the effort to do what is necessary to obtain it. And those who actually worked at getting it should not be forced into giving it away to others who put forth no effort on their own to obtain it.

I can't argue with you about my reasoning not being practical to a materialistic society or world. I am no way suggesting that people should not be rewarded for their efforts, advancements or that they should have to work for free. I simply believe that in an ideal society all knowledge is free to all those who persue it. My question is why should this type of thinking be impractical? I want to believe that we can make knowledge free to all and better society and humanity as a whole. I certainly believe that such things are within reason and our capability.

Oh Good grief Charlie Brown......
so your saying standing up against genocide, hate crimes, murder, rape, war, and general injustice incites more of it?!?!? So suppose when i see someone getting mugged on the the street, according to you the scientologist thing to do is to keep on walking or just stare....
Anybody who speaks of self-mastery should have the common sense to know that doesn't mean ignore everything else in the world. Those who master themselves help others and stay invovled in their community and world. If someone does something wrong, they call them out on it and they question things. Just becuase we are not personally tied to events and actions of others does not mean we should ignore them. You speak of what i call the greatest sin a person can commit. That sin is Apathy. Mark my words, your indifference towards others will lead to your own undoing. You do yourself and scientology a diservice by speaking like that.

I like the words my sensei gave me," If I am then i will pass out of being onto something else, what is more satisfying then that?"

Frankly as a Taoist i would be happy without myself...

sorry for the late reply. They are a christian who incoporates Taoist philosopy and insights into their faith. A good book about the subject is,"The Jesus Sutras" by Robert Palmer. let me know if you have any other questions about it or anything else.