Thank you.
And of course, to try to talk less!

I desire
I acquire
I possess
I treasure
I display
I incorporate
I routinize
I desire Desire.
___________________________

Tom4Uhere

you: I have seen this before. "I think therefore I am".
quoting me: “I THINK ∴ IT IS NOT”

When I know you have REALLY read my E=W, I may be happy to continue.

Meanwhile, if you don't mind, I'll leave this Waltz Of The Cuckoos.

Thank you.

To notbeold.

you: "Sorry if I seemed flippant about your decades of thought put into the equation, but I enjoyed it. I've done a lot of mind bashing navel gazing, philosophising, and like that sort of thing, [I need a girlfriend to help waste my time]."

me: A girl-friend.....no more glorious form of time-wasting for 'Man'. ("Woman: the only mercy ever shown to Man by the gods.")

you: "...nothing is curved, all is merely straight lines between points; nothing is straight, all is curved."

me: Spoken like a true Word-Cage occupant. Granted, one can never get outside it, and granted, it takes a great deal to finally get the real point[less], but once one knows a freedom that finally gives one total security, well, it was all worth the obstacle course.

p.s. You'd be surprised (or would you) how very very few people are willing to take up this challenge. After all to abandon one's god is tough enough, but to abandon EVERYTHING ?! Why, it doesn't bear thinking about...........

Tom4Uhere

you: ".... that it can only be perceivable by 'word'." (NO!)

me: It's obvious to me that no amount of discussion between us can do anything useful for you; so instead I propose quoting something perhaps more palatable:

"The human - like a hamster pet
scurrying in its sphere -
hasn’t got the point quite yet
that all its prattle’s null and void
becos de wheel iz made o’ Woid !

Thus I am The Slave of Word;
(I’d thought I was its master!).
Forgetting I invented it
‘s the cause of this disaster!"

And to follow, a little tattle-tale for you:

THE WORD CAGE
 
Our birds usually chatter about immediacies such as sudden sounds or looming visitors; but today they seem to be somewhat frivolous - if not philosophical.
"But why are we here?"
"Indeed; why here?"
"No: I mean why are we, well, anywhere?"
"We have to be somewhere, don't we. We can't possibly be nowhere."
"We could be everywhere."
"Everywhere!?"
"Yes: take the moon; it's everywhere. Whenever you look, it's not in the same place as it was previously, is it."
"True."
"So it's here and not here at the same time."
"Or rather there and not there at the same time."
"Same thing, no?"
"Surely, we're here, not there."
"To us, yes; but to others we're there."
"So we're here if we see us, but there , if others see us."
"Ah! Then the final answer must be, 'we're here because we see ourselves'; right?"
"And if we're not here, we don't see us - "
" - and neither does anyone else."
"Eh?!"
"They can't be there if we don't see them. I mean, what would make them be there?"
"Others who see them."
"But others can't be 'there' unless we see them: so if we're not here, they can't be either."
Round and round they go. How can they possibly tell that their cage is made of word, and that Word has no outside?
_____________________________________________________________________

Meanwhile........back to the game, eh.

Tom4Uhere

You: "You're saying that nothing can exist unless it is named."
I quote me: "NO THING CAN EXIST UNLESS IT IS PERCEIVABLE."

me: I thank you for the time you're spending on this - BUT.......

as it is clear from your 'mis-recalling of even the first line of my little statement, that you are concentrating let's say, far more on your argument than on mine, I'm wasting your time. My apologies for this.

I'm one of the great criminals in terms of 'wasting time'; and unfortunately, because I am HOMOMAL and not its ideal, MAN - (well, except for occasionally maybe!) - I'm doomed to go on and on wasting time; mine and others'.

As I just said to "notbeold" in this column: "My E=W by A is really only useful to anyone who is uneasy - (and therefore uncomfortable) - with the "existential explanations" on offer so far. I have met people who are genuinely irritated by that 'uneasiness', and wish they could resolve it.

What uneasiness? The "it-doesn't-make-sense" one.

You're obviously not 'uneasy'; so most of what I've said can't be of any serious interest to you. Enjoy the game.

To Tom4Uhere

You: "Reality is there whether it is defined by words or not. "
Me: Really? Do tell me what put it there? Your statement is so 'definitively conclusive' that it can only have been YOU!

you: "The fire exists without the word."
me: "And pray, what is it called?"

Quoting me; "...Mind you, if you dare[!] to propose that ‘Word’ was around before “the big bang”, (or any other ‘kick-off hypothesis’), you’ll have to ask, ‘then who or what was doing the talking at the time?’!"

To Tom4Uhere

you: ....."why can't other things exist without word?"

'Existence' is a word; without that word, there would be 'not a thing called existence'.

But it's there just the same, you say? Ah, but no doubt, when there are no words, it goes by some other form of identification.

Do let me know what it is, won't you.

To notbeold

You: "It was good puzzling with you. Got any more ?"

ANY MORE ???!!! This one already cost me about 30 years sir. (Admittedly I'm a very slow student.) So just the one will have to do; although I do have a couple of (YouTube) audios, which make it all somewhat entertaining instead of simply laborious: THE NONSENSE TREE and THE TRICK.

The verse: yes; it's from my 'Eulogy Cantata'

welcome to the clubless.

keith

To Notebold

You: "...only collective understanding..."
me: for which one needs a tool [word!]: i.e. e=w/a[greement]
you: "...a bit buddhist, 'all is illusion'..."
me: 1) they've been known to burn bits of paper!, which means that they think they and Buddha are 'around'. 2) to have 'illusion', there must be someone or something having it!
you: "So then, if I assert......does not exist."
me: dead on !!
you: "I think I get it Keith."
me: I think you do indeed. And you're about the only one I've met who hasn't run away from it. Not surprising. For most, it'd spoil the game.

But NOT SO; it doesn't actually: I'm certainly enjoying playing it!!! However, I'm no longer nagged with the "what does it all mean?" bit. I'm no longer afraid that if I don't find its 'meaning', it won't have any 'purpose'. And that, believe me, is a great and permanent relief!!

""The Word I am
that pens the eye
that views the void
that hems the sky
that spawns the soil
that yields the one
who kens
The Word I am
that pens the eye""......etc.

WHAT MUMMY DIDN’T TELL ME

Amongst other things no doubt that
my mummy couldn’t tell me were
that fairy tales had nothing whatever
to do with my personal life and that
fate just might not provide me
with an almost perfect spouse or

that from very early on I’d be obliged
to pass my days sausaged between
those who wouldn’t stop pestering me
to learn what I had no yen to know and
my peers of whom I should be very wary
(but couldn’t possibly avoid anyhow)

that losing one’s mind (“falling in love”
is the term used) is the prerequisite
for the production of offspring
that a chair is not exactly a chair
and ‘here’ actually isn’t here at all
(but then neither is ‘there’ there)

and with around 3000 billion residents so far
having run riot with 4000 quadrillion words
on this one orb within say 5000 million galaxies
(I think I’d better check the figures……
you know how those llions can run amok)
well what about us having a ‘world pause’

say 1 HOUR OF TOTAL SILENCE FROM ALL
allowing each one of us that brief moment
to remember that while words are our co-creators
they are also our destroyers and in that blessed
interval perhaps at last we’d be able to hear
trees breathing
a rainbow’s song
the sighing of shadows
whispers of clouds
the joyful roar of dawn
and above all - our own ecstatic heartbeat.

To notbeold

Quoting me: "The frame's the game".
Humans are enjoying inventing it.

Most people are happy to play it - {they just love to complain}.

My E=W by A is really only useful to anyone who is uneasy - (and therefore perpetually uncomfortable) - with the "existential explanations" offered so far. I have met people who are genuinely irritated by that 'uneasiness', and wish they could resolve it.

What uneasiness? The "it-doesn't-make-sense" one. My statement resolves it: but does it spoil the game to find out that there is no game? Not at all. I wouldn't miss the trip for anything! But..... I am free now, of THE ball-and-chain:

E X P E C T A T I O N S

Quoting me: """Knowing that I am solely responsible for ALL occurrence - (my perception decides on the relevancy of anything and everything) - I choose my moral/ethical obligations and commitments, without deferring to anything or anyone else. However, I am also just as free to decide to be bound by any principles I admire and respect - as is, say, the person who believes that “IT is all here anyhow”"".

As statements go, mine isn't a long one. A very, very slow and calm reading of it should do the trick: but most prefer to think that The Frame was put there by someone or something else, rather than accept that THEY ARE DOING ALL THE PUTTING ALL THE TIME

To notbeold

You: "...and made real by many minds, it may exist...
Me: if you say so! (Or to put that another way, if ANYONE says so, and provided you can hear them saying so!!

Me:"""Whatever I accept as being, is and remains so, for as long as I am able to think it."""

Add to this; 'when I'm not here, I won't be able to think it. If I can't think it, it isn't', because, quote: """the only “proof” of the contents and substance of this [Existence] concoction, is ‘humans declaring/agreeing that it is so‘. No other PROOF is possible""".

To mightymoe

You: "...So how are we living on something that doesn't exist?"

Just precede the first verb with one negative......and we agree!

Let me quote this, just for fun.

The human is a hamster pet,
scurrying in its sphere.
It hasn't quite discovered yet
that all its prattle's null and void
becos de wheel iz made o' Woid!

Thus I am The Slave of Word;
(I'd thought I was its master!).
Forgetting I invented it
‘s the cause of this disaster!

You, Child of Word
whose child you are,
gave birth to Life.
Conceiver of all you perceive,
there is no vision
but your own.
You live forever,
for to you,
Death is never known.

To mightymoe

Your quote: ....."it only exists because I can see it" thoughts...

You might agree with everything I've said, (or plaguerized, if you prefer - but I don't enjoy flattery!), if we bracketed the words "as far as I am concerned" after everything.

Excellent. It's the perfect solution. Existence is - AS FAR AS IT IS CONCERNED.

Your quote: "it existed long before humans we're ever around, we just didn't know about it..."

One can speculate endlessly, and extemporize infinitely, but there is no proof of anything without a prover.

To Up2youandme

If you so; yes.

To "notbeold"

You: "But things do exist when they are not perceivable....."

Quote: .....he cannot accept that what he is "discovering" could not be ‘a find’, because it is not provable that anything can be ‘found’ that he didn’t create in the first place.

Unless someone/thing is around to say that someone/thing is around, what makes its 'being around-ness' possible?!

posted twice; one removed

Try this - "BIRGUY74"

Some day, you won't be around. You can speculate that there will be SOMEONE around, (or something); but one can't claim to PROVE this without oneself being around to do so.

Quote: My 'word-tool', (the ‘human grunt-offspring’), identifies the object.......

Unless something/one is around to identify the claimed-to-be-in-existence object, how can it BE?

Quote: ...in order for anything to 'happen' it must be identifiably perceivable: how else can 'happening' be happening?!