All that I require, but good question.

I am a christian. If you believe that you are reading these words, your sylligism just fell apart.

God proved Himself repeatedly to His own people. Despite having seen the "Shekinah" (a cloud of white hot smoke that ascended into heaven), or the glory of God, they still fell into worshipping false gods. So I wonder, having the truth of the Bible which gave that example, even if God were to tap you on the shoulder, would you believe then? Because that same Bible says that you wouldn't. That is part of His all-knowing character. "Why waste the time" seems like the perfect sylligism against showing a people who wouldn't believe anyway. I could be wrong.

Hello psycho. I would like to thank you wholeheartedly for reaffirming my belief in Scriptures like 1 John. Your opinion is most appreciated! Have blessed day.

As one who has studied religion(s) for the better part of my life, the first point I would offer is one to appeal to those who would call theirselves "athiests";
By definition, a thiest is one who believes in a god, The God, or other means of worship. With that in mind, add the prefix "a-" and you can apply the opposite for definition. So yes, athiest have a belief. Now is athiesm a religion? Since a religion is defined as a system of beliefs, I would say it is on the basis of definition alone. Since thiests have systematic theology, an athiest would believe that this system is false. This would be building their theology as well, whether it is agreeable to others or not. This is, of course, only an opinion based on definition.

I would also add that the end result of thiests and athiests alike will be death. To a thiest, death here will transform into a series of options. Christians will either be glorified in Christ or be damned eternally. Bhuddists will be advanced or diminished according to their kharma. This list continues for the varied religions and for the sake of brevity will be omitted. However, for an athiest, death can only offer annihlation. This appeals to them because it offers no consequence to actions here and now. Indeed, you can look at streets today to see actions which reap no consequence, so why should death be any different?

I believe it is very sad to be so devoid of hope for anything more than what we have here. I believe in the life, crucifixion, burial and ressurection of Jesus Christ. I also believe that God elects those whom He will and I can provide Scripture all day long to those who need it. The fruits of this world are extremely attractive, but bereft of hope. I can tell you this with certainty; whether it is the God of Scripture, Vishnu, Bhudda, Allah, money, power, fame, success, we all have a god.

Hello feral. Unfortunately, the Scripture you quote is meant for believers. The fact that you post it and the response it invites only affirms this. I would congratulate you on receiving it, however, the argument will provide fruitless results. You can provide Scripture only to those willing to accept it as infallible. Sadly, all else are spiritually discerned to it.

Hello feral, my name is J.R. I have enjoyed several of your posts so far. Since this has been requested as a debate-less, open forum of praise, and as I have seen several poems thusfar, please allow me to share one of my personal favorites. May the Lord bless and keep you in the pleasure of his beautiful and wonderous grace.

THE FOUNTAIN OF PRAISE

All my soul was dry and dead till I learned that Jesus bled;

— bled and suffer'd in my place, bearing sin in matchless grace.
Then a drop of heavenly love fell upon me from above,

and by secret, mystic art reached the centre of my heart.
Glad the story I recount, how that drop became a fount,

bubbled up a living well, made my heart begin to swell.
All within my soul was praise, praise increasing all my days;

praise which could not silent be. Floods were struggling to be free.
More and more the waters grew, open wide the flood-gates flew,

leaping forth in streams of song flowed my happy life along.
Lo, a river clear and sweet laved my glad, obedient feel!

Soon it rose up to my knees, and I praised and prayed with ease.
Now my soul in praises swims, bathes in songs, and psalms, and hymns:

plunges down into the deeps, all her powers in worship steeps.
Hallelujah! O my Lord, torrents from my soul are poured!

I am carried clean away, praising, praising all the day.
In an ocean of delight, praising God with all my might, self is drowned.

So let it be: only Christ remains to me.

C.H. Spurgeon

Scrolled down through this thread last night. There are definitely some entertaining, nice, crazy, disturbing people in Ohio. Cincinnati area is about equal. I'm obviously new here so this should be interesting...

BillingsDreamer, I commend you on a post worthy of discussion. As I read down through the thread, I did notice that no reply contained one single reference from Scripture. What a sad state a professing Christian must be in without the Word.

Look to Romans 4:3. The apostle Paul asks an all-important question, "For what saith the Scripture?" I know of only one who was born that didn't need to learn. We were given the Scriptures to learn of the things of God. Man will always have an opinion. However, THE SCRIPTURES DO NOT CHANGE BECAUSE GOD DOES NOT CHANGE. God is perfect and doesn't need to change. If he needed to change, then that would mean that He needed to improve something. If He needed to improve something, He isn't perfect, and therefore not the true and holy God. Depend not on the words of man Christians! Men will fail were God cannot. Look to 1 Timothy 1:4 "Neither give heed to fables and endless genealogies, which minister questions, rather than godly edifying which is in faith: so do."

Think for a moment of those who WANT to change Scripture. Do we, as the creatED, have any right to change the word of God? Look at John 1:14 "And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth." This obviously, is a reference to Christ. So tell me, dear soul, who can change Christ? If you believe you can, study this, 1 John 5:10 "He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son."

Sadly, the majority of preaching today is trying to convince you to believe in an ineffectual God. I beg of you to listen dear Christians! The Holy Father is not one who will be transformed into some lonely old man, sitting in the heavens, hoping you will believe in His Son! Likewise, Christ isn't One who is wandering about, trying to get you to believe in His cause! You can scoff, you can mock and you can question all you want. This is one promise I can tell you that is true, Romans 14:11 "For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God." For all who doubt, you don't HAVE to believ, but YOU WILL.

For those who have made it this far in my post, grace and peace be with you. Now comes my challenge to you. Romans 10:11 "For the Scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed." Mark 16:15 "And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature." Romans 1:16 "For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek."

May God's grace be with you according to His good and perfect will.

Here's a poem for thought;

When once I mourned a load of sin;
When conscience felt a wound within;
When all my works were thrown away;
When on my knees I knelt to pray,
Then, blissful hour, remembered well,
I learned Thy love, Immanuel.


When storms of sorrow toss my soul;
When waves of care around me roll;
When comforts sink, when joys shall flee;
When hopeless griefs shall gape for me,
One word the tempest's rage shall quell--
That word, Thy name, Immanuel.


When for the truth I suffer shame;
When foes pour scandal on my name;
When cruel taunts and jeers abound;
When "Bulls of Bashan" gird me round,
Secure within Thy tower I'll dwell--
That tower, Thy grace, Immanuel.


When hell enraged lifts up her roar;
When Satan stops my path before;
When fiends rejoice and wait my end;
When legioned hosts their arrows send,
Fear not, my soul, but hurl at hell
Thy battle-cry, Immanuel.


When down the hill of life I go;
When o'er my feet death's waters flow;
When in the deep'ning flood I sink;
When friends stand weeping on the brink,
I'll mingle with my last farewell
Thy lovely name, Immanuel.


When tears are banished from mine eye;
When fairer worlds than these are nigh;
When heaven shall fill my ravished sight;
When I shall bathe in sweet delight,
One joy all joys shall far excel,
To see Thy face, Immanuel.

Charles Haddon Spurgeon
(1834-1892)

Please forgive if I seem presumptuous, but as eloquent as his words were, I can't help but ask, where is Christ in his message?