I'm wondering how typing in the quote boxes even happens.

Sometimes you're just not going to see eye to eye and it's best to walk away.>>

That's something you tell yourself, maybe others will pick up on it, but not if you tell them....they're going to dig their heels in!

I thought all babes have brains, you going to objectify our brains now too? lol ahhh that's so annoying 'All I want to do is cuddle right now.'

WTF? I know you men...it's always I'm a sex machine and then you fall asleep before ten. In fact, the more a man boasts the less he has libido.


I wanted to talk about what would people feel like if they didn't know they had a body. Imagine you without a body. Bc that's what babies are. So cute...they have no idea what they are...and somewhere they learn who they are first through mom, then these states oral...it takes in the outside world...and yeah, gets rid of it...some kids can't flush the toilet, it's terror to let that thing go. It was part of them OMG!! So they learn about themselves through these processes and when a person faces insurmountable pressure, some regress to these stages. Honestly...bottles, smoking, eating - and the other well you don't want to know what these people do. But let's just say it doesn't go down the toilet. Which is messed up strange.

Anyone have boundary issues and feel depersonalized? Feel like you don't know where you end and where everything else begins? That is what I wanted to talk about.

WE don't actually who "you" is that you reference; what post; what clip. >>

you speak for everyone? haha....relax. most of what we say about others is actually true about ourselves. So each of us can sit down and read what we wrote and reflect. And that is why I write ...you help me learn about myself and so forth.

OMG you should talk to my boyfriend. He's a solid 11 younger than me...very smart guy, mathematician, extremely well studied. I mean, he is the portrait of a nerd/geek and spent his childhood reading 19th century lit and listening to classical music. His parents were normals, they are really annoyed with this as they listen to pink floyd, country...he's an anomaly. so i'm not sure how high his IQ is but it's pretty damn high given he has taught and tutored for SAT.

My point is that no amount of intellect or ability will help you with a women. He is clueless. In fact I think it impairs his ability to emotionally relate. So men try and come off as smart to approach me, but I already know that spiritual/deep people will have an easier time because I am receptive to kindness, not intelligence.

I should have never put these pictures up; I did because ppl like have a positive image to reflect on, an identity given the sterility of the internet (and we can understand a person through how they look, smile, laugh)

and there is a time for pacifism, but life evolved and survives also by defending oneself, aggression...so I'm not against violence that has a greater purpose (as in protecting yourself or country) ...if it has no logical place, I always opt for staying out of the conflict, more peaceful approaches.

I know a lot about psychology, obviously it's what I do, right? Philosophy I really know nothing about, so I was reading these different things, and wanted them to be stored in my memory - the best way is to talk about it. this teacher I had always gave a personal type story to go along with the teaching, saying that you used both sides of the brain which is better. just reading these concentrated subjects is difficult to lodge into the long term... so we talk about it, get personal experiences in there and you integrate that more readily. and that is essentially why I posted. I'm no expert on philosophy, but I want to learn as much as I can, it improves my life and adds a deeper dimension to reflect on.

when I posted to you yesterday I was thinking your post was a clip taken from somewhere - if those were your words I just don't understand these message boards which doesn't surprise me. if I offended you, it wasn't intentional. I would have exercised a more careful analysis out of respect and propriety.

spiritual experiences are powerful and transforming. I was just relating how I think all illness has a primary spiritual component. I'm glad you found what works. My dad does MI/CD therapy...I've helped give lectures. we look at the issues that drove a person to abuse chemicals - often there is an underlying mood disorder that is so diffuse no one picks up on it. there is a spectrum...in bipolar 2 (which is what I have) --people move in between periods of deep depression and alternating into hypomania. but the interesting thing is hypomania can be experienced as this annoying, anxious energy. when spring hit people were overjoyed here in MN, but what happened was it was cold, cloudy, dark for weeks before hand and then one day it was 75 degrees. too sharp of a shift! I was crazy anxious...and so were my patients (I have 3 jobs, one of which is mental health nursing) ....in august people who swing on a greater scale have difficulty with mania/hypomania and then when it the dead of winter its depression. this all relates to sleep/wake cycles as light hits the back of the eyes and triggers the brain to process when you are supposed to be awake. this is the crux of treating bipolar, essentially, as lithium serves to reset that internal clock. if you are sensitive to light and this process you will be injected with wake chemicals even in the dark of night, due to things like the TV or monitor, not kidding. And say you are sitting at the computer for a few hours before bed, your brain is telling your body...'it's awake time' so when you try and sleep you can't get that deep rest with REM. over time the person becomes so sleep deprived even though they spend time sleeping, it causes damage. the less sleep you get the less healthier you are to be able to fall asleep. (good to mention all people swing and cycle, just not so dramatically)

most people I know that have struggled with addiction have this bipolar 2, because it's very hard to pick up on. naturally people like the highs and want them to be higher, so they use chemicals - and then when the anxiety or depression hits, they use chemicals as it initially has a positive effect. alcohol is a sugar very close to glucose, the body takes it up as food/energy inside the cells and tries to run it through that mitochondria cycle where it splits off electrons to make ATP (energy)...except it doesn't work with alcohol sugars!! craziness... so people who are sensitive because they don't rest well will respond much like someone in a diabetic episode of low sugar...it's the same thing actually. Irritable, hostile, irrational...and it causes more damage which further makes this whole process even more difficult to come out of. it's really important to help people with sleep hygiene, where you dim the lights in the eve. dim the monitor, etc...

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15654938

they put these people in constant darkness to treat mania, and it works. no meds, just dark so people can rest properly.

I am always working to get to the bottom of illness as prevention and holistic treatment. my consulting is primarily based on helping people find the root and get off or reduce meds, live healthier etc....this whole cycle of doping a person up is just a band aid, they still never sleep because these meds impair REM!! I mean, they are sleeping but not healthy sleeping. It's like Micheal Jackson - he had narcissism (as his dad beat him terribly as a child and forced him to perform) which caused this intense anxiety making sleep impossible. so he used benzos (valium, xanax) which essentially impair REM and you develop a tolerance...he DIED because this totally ridiculous doctor thought that unconsciousness meant sleep. um, no. he put MJ to sleep with anesthetics...which completely undermines healthy rest. this over time killed him as his body was exhausted. I couldn't believe these physicians thought that unconsciousness from sedating meds was the same as real sleep.

nice chatting...nice to E-meet you!

regarding hostility on the internet: I don't play that way, I ignore it and only put energy forth into positive connections (the negative ones I let go)

Transcendentalism - haven't thought of that in a long time.

And again, I believe in evolution and I outlined that in the posts above - I integrated that with a combination of social influences and stated after time it changes the animal on that level. I just don't know how much influence to a percentage one has over the other. all the latest research brings to light the genetic predispositions - I have learned that certain genes can be turned on and off. if you are predisposed and you have a major event, those genes that honor defenses might get turned on. it is very possible the sociopathy has been groomed by the forces in life as a viable alternative to spiritual death (and in that, it becomes physical) ...I honestly believe all illness has a spiritual component

both models can be correct at the same time. it's a matter of what helps people or not - this design is speaks to me and because of it I have helped people in better ways. i'm not stuck on any theory being the correct one. i don't believe we are capable of that.

Hmm, I'm going to object, lol. It is essential for those using these corrosive defenses such as narcissism and antisocial behavior to remain consciously unaware of them lest they collapse under the cognitive dissonance (the gap between what we believe to be true, compared to what we know is true).

The more unhealthy, the more a person radically rejects the exposure of weakness. The mere fact you are expressing yourself and relating to people means you are essentially healthy, although I do know of one self aware narcissist - but he doesn't reach out to reap the benefits of being heard and accepting feedback. He humbly accepts he is driven only by libido(life force) achieved through other people. Essentially he exudes this syrupy thick air of power and omniscience, when it's true he is most definitely the opposite. You know how players are always talking themselves up - if you need to say you 'take care of your girl' - or kids, or talk continuous smack about how great you are, and people do this intuitively to be this certain brand of greatness they assume others to respond to. The truth is people who have genuine, altruistic, creative, attractive features don't need to underline that verbally. People experience how wonderful one is and that is very telling about how fractured people are. People will literally get smacked trying to win me over this way, as it's as obvious as their nose. I don't 'tell them how it is' and that weakness they have, since it would only serve to intensify their deep feeling of reproach toward themselves. You could never expose how truly and utterly damaged people are without hurting them in the process. I am thinking of Catholics who were brutally raped and abused (in the movie Magdelene Sisters, to reference) In Ireland these girls were picked up if they had a large chest or other 'sinful' traits and then forced into slave labor. The family had no power, the church was tops, and it was all a vessel for narcissism. It's diffuse and ambient torture - so subtle. No one wants to be the one to out Father Kevin when he is the glue of the community. In fact when people did and still do this they get blamed! You just destroyed Christmas! These women were so brainwashed that they even practiced this toxic religion more intensely - as it is in and of itself, a morbid defense for the most ill and damaged souls. And it's important to note we all have these defenses to varying degrees. I am admittedly antisocial, narcissistic and on the same page (but the female correlates) -- I can sense borderline and histrionic tendencies. These are the dramatic defenses, and others cataloged in different sections are schizoid/paranoid defenses and others like passive-aggressiveness.

You can't find your drive, it's there all the time, people fail to properly fuel it. The difference between people who can and who can't is about whether they internally regulate themselves (also self soothe, promote themselves) and people who depend on the outside world for regulation. It is pure torture for them, and people that destroy others in this cycle are suffering to an incomprehensible degree.

I can help you. But please read at your leisure as it's a lot to take in. :)

Freud was extremely talented at fleshing out the human psyche. You have the Id, which is the primary drive, the animal drive: it wants, it needs, it pines after. We live in communities, which separate us from the rest of the animal world, but that required extra dimensions to be achieved, and we are still working out the crises of the design. Freud talked about the Id needing to be disciplined, so evolution added the super-ego (SE) which is basically this center in your brain that stores the voices of authority and is also carried on in the genes as the most functional themes become recurring genetically (evolution). Think of the archetype of Eastern thought, where ancestors were pleaded with and regaled - this is it! The SE had to be effective, as who would opt for not plopping your neighbor over the head for his Mercedes, if you were 6 ft 7? What is the most effective influence of behavior? Pain. Suffering. These of which are all part of the successes we have as the living. There is an illness where people cannot feel pain. These children are locked inside the house as they'd start chopping off body parts just for fun. Usually they burn themselves badly, they have no reception to pain or discomfort. We would have never lived if it were't for negative reinforcement. So the SE uses the primitive drive of the limbic center, fight or flight, aggression and fear. If you were abused or neglected these voices are unrelenting messages of damnation, unless people are performing to the visible satisfaction of others. It's like a viral infection, people hijack others' healthier ego defenses since theirs is nonfunctional. The ego is the middle man, he is also influenced by outside influences, and he developed to protect itself from an over-active SE - it negotiates - because these drives have no independent reasoning and regulation, whatever it is it justs fires away. So the SE fires anxiety, fear, guilt at the Id, if it was learned that behavior one was employing will decidedly lead to demise. I worked in a really small town the other day, and being me I tend to attract attention. This family was at a restaurant, I walked in with my stethoscope around my neck. First the mother looked at me and looked pleased yet jealous of both sexual prowess and intelligence. I smiled weakly at her to let her know I wasn't someone who paraded around my greatness for others to feel inadequate over. (In fact I over express my weaknesses as a defense, since I automatically cause self reproach in people who feel intimidated.) -- the children were under 5 yo, and they ate up their parents reactions innately. The mom relaxed, but triggered the father to look, who did but abruptly turned away, as in, 'OMG I'm going to get smacked if I don't control myself' (b/c men just naturally stare at beauty, they are mystified and rendered powerless, like Homers' Sirens.) Well of course the quicker one snatches their gaze away means you had a deep response, and this mom knew exactly and again stared at me, then back at the husband, who was spastically grooming the food on his plate. The children again stared at me, and them. And this was all in a few seconds, but these types of judgments toward people are how the child forms its 'ideal' person - it is highly based off of the approval of the most important and influential people. We are tethered to societal acceptance and that is the BOTTOM LINE in suffering. If you don't have a 3 car garage and dress like this, you're not successful, and so forth. See, you don't have a choice in this matter, these messages are exposed in mental illness as voices and they are critical, violent in those who have an unacceptable weakness. Think of it, we project outward resilience and lie to even ourselves about our strength, depending on how thickly applied and negative these messages are. I just explained all biases in mental illness right there - it reminds people of their weaknesses, and they are cowering if they have a militant SE. You trigger them with weaknesses and they have to sit and negotiate their needs by using the ego defense, especially if you have similar genetics!!! You ever notice how sick family members terrify the living hell out of you?! If mental illness runs in your family, most people become estranged and isolated because there is all this triggering going back and forth leading to ambiguity, indifference in maintaining the relationship. It becomes overwhelmingly painful without....therapy(ta da) --because these therapists are well respected, and they quickly subjugate your unhealthy, less credentialed SE. It overrides the whole system - you are now employed by their healthier SE or ego, well both actually. We do this all the time, why do we care if this person acts like this or that, we attempt to regulate them as we live by each other. The health of someone else directly affects ours. The more powerful your SE is, the more powerful the Ego has to be to control it, block these messages. Higher defenses are always preferable! But if they are not available people will use anything they can get their hands on. The ego negotiates the id's needs, otherwise it shrivels under the pressure of a damaging SE: id says 'I want that cookie' -- SE responds 'not before dinner' -- the ego moves defensively 'well you dad let's you have one before dinner, so it's okay sometimes.'

You isolate to avoid being triggered. We change these messages by practicing self promotion on the conscious level. I tell myself, 'I'm not a bad person for having a want or making a mistake - I'm generally great and my mind tends to be overly critical and judgmental, the truth is more in line with how I try and do my best,' --we must practice forgiveness and learn NOT to accept these negative evaluations -- this isn't you, this is a toxic psychical process. We also hang with people who have strong, function SE's and well balanced ego abilities - too strong of an ego can lead to overly gratify oneself.

With the advent of communication technology, we will no longer have issues with people starting bizarre religions. Now our religion is these technologies, haha, which is no better for the conspiracy-laden mind. My Sunday was lazy, but not really in a good way.

Hi! I think people trend with regards to 'hot' philosophies - it always keeps changing. I'm not positive that humans have increased in IQ over time significantly - more so we build on previous concepts and have a better understanding of what works and what doesn't

How's your sunday?

Voices occur when the brain is under stress and not functioning properly. They are actually happening to everyone, as they are subconscious messages in the healthy. It's alarming to hear these voices yet it is really good for science to see how that works. The super-ego is essentially the voices of all authority, that of which keeps you in line...if you were neglected or abused, these voices will be really harsh - and you don't know these recurring themes and messages are even happening. The SE developed so people wouldn't just grab your food and club you over the head. That's not good for the group. (Also important is the awareness that the SE uses anxiety, guilt and fear responses to encourage behaviors, as no one would opt for changing without consequences, lol) In fact the devoplment of the SE is exactly the reason why humans have come so far - they work together. Essentially the processes that have helped us evolve are mostly healthy - but they are subject to fault and this is the conscious disease. When talking about narcissism, it is profound to express these damaged people hate themselves, as they killed off the wounded, vulnerable, imperfect and invalidated self to make a surrogate self that is all powerful, attractive, intelligent. This is a defense from failing psychical crises and it's interesting that when therapists tried to treat the narcissism and expose it - people committed suicide. That was when psychology thought prying people open was helpful - I do the opposite, I wrap people up to seal the wound tight, make it less palpable - add new, positive definitions of the self. Unfortunately we live in a very narcissistic society, and that means we're sick, fatally, I fear. In the most extreme aspects of the spectrum, people neurotically work on this perfected image as the SE's messages are the monster in the room that killed the original self. These are damaging, overly critical voices that cut people down, minute after minute - so they are driven to neuroses: strange rituals that groom the image, the quest for ultimate power over other people, the inflection of appearance as the greatest value. They stomp all over healthy people who accept their failings and powerlessness because it turns up the volume and intensity of the voices. People who are more healthy repress emotional stim, but narcissists and psychopaths repress every emotional reaction. This boils under the surface and the catharsis is rage, especially toward those free of toxic voices. They hate your freedom and rail against healthy vulnerability that encourages humility, balance, acceptance and most importantly, rational thinking.

Totally off subject you should google stoned-ape theory. Pretty dang cool, that primates ate psychedelic mushrooms and it expanded their creative abilities, making language possible, as the barriers and boundaries (also drives) were disengaged.

Does it have a value in changing the man's behaviour? >>

I agree with his opposition to determinism but feel this writer uses faulty logic to do so. Different therapies have a similar goal, to alleviate suffering and move bottled up energy that makes one sick. It is more about changing your perception of the things that affects how you 'feel' about the events one is mostly powerless over. Affecting how someone feels will most likely influence behavior, but the goal is not to change someone's behavior because that is a set up. In his example with the child, it is illogical to assume behavior could be changed through talk therapy as panic involves automatic, primitive drives that are impossible to entirely change. This man may choose to reflect differently and forgive his short-comings, forgive the universe, alleviate parental guilt and so forth. Understanding your powerlessness is most operative in achieving the most power, because the biggest stumbling block tends to be the reactive defenses to understanding the lack of power one has - this of which cause neuroses and psychoses in critical stages.

And of course, I may be entirely wrong, but that is how I view it; and again the theme I intended for the thread - to challenge human omniscience and authority which are more damaging to our kind and the Earth than anything else. A good example would be this women I know, who is wildly Christian and her perceptions are highly toxic to vulnerable people and the vulnerable planet. She believes that God gives preference to humans (even certain humans) and animals are for doing what we wish. This is also a recurring theme all over the place with regard to human understanding. Some people would say that Christianity even promotes reckless behavior, as all one has to do is 'repent'.

Christmas is about giving? Ah hell no, it is about taking - we RAPE this planet of resources in the name of Christmas...so much wasted resources and gifts that get thrown or are completely irrelevant to being happy. Humans are often behaving the opposite of what they tell themselves. I like to tell them they need to take a page from the Natives who replenish what they take (no carbon footprint).

I just about choked when I read one quote from the pope as God giving unconditional love. FFS the whole lot of Catholicism is about conditional love, replete with bizarre hand motions and rituals that are completely delusional. My ex sister in law is Catholic and she told her kids she was going to hell because she got a divorce. That was healthy - these poor kids are traumatized. In short most religions are a vessel for narcissistic defenses which is why no one exposed the priests who were peers - as they were power sadists rather then sexual sadists. I'm sure they're pissed as all get out the sexual sadists ruined if for them.

Do not think I uphold those who say science is irrefutable. It is hubris and delusional arrogance that is destroying this planet - and this is why I speak.

My apologies for offending those who are driven to religion, I do believe most are good intending people that got sucked up by some really smart psychopaths. People who have no ability for empathy (as the narcissist defenses push all emotion to the spiritual bottom) - are hiding out within the defense of 'goodness'. It is always those who seem MOST SINCERE and most impressively empathic that are violently attacking children. it is about maintaining a facade and using people to placate their anxieties - who would believe that pastor John was raping your child? Anyone who claims they are all about 'goodness' is denying reality. These black and white perceptions like goodness and evil and are pointedly employed by those who failed certain crises in childhood that are necessary in understanding the world exists in shades of grey, not absolutes.

Please, OP, I ask you to name some non-primitives who are smarter and more sophisticated than S. or D., and by at least a factor of two. I mean, whose IQs are at least three times that of Socrates and Descartes combined.>>

There is value and relevancy for the primitive. We still use the primitive aspects of our brain (limbic system)- it is just as important as where we are now because they are mutually inclusive.

And IQ can KMA. It is emotional intelligence that matters - actually you are assuming the opposite! I oppose people who assert superiority and static thinking, which all translates to ego defenses and I believe it means the opposite - they understand their powerlessness, so they project the image of mental power to escape the cruel reality of mortality. Hey that rhymes.

FOr example, I tend to use the example of a gamer playing a MMORPG as an analogy for my own spiritual beliefs. The character being the body, the computer being the mind, and the player being "me". Would that fall under the label of "dualism" as you are using it?>>

Yep that would be it, very good. Non-dualists are no more right than dualists, and I was casting a hook to anyone that has something to say about that. My ex is into advaita non-dualism and he has narcissistic personality disorder. I read some of the sites he still posts and it impresses me how these people are so concrete and self-rightous. I have more to say on that, but this was the gist.

Your opinion is your opinion, not truth - it you believe have the capability for ultimate truth then that is exactly what I wanted to talk about. It is EXTREMELY ARROGANT to view your beliefs as relevant to all people.

Now, if you will put down psychology in the manner of extremes, I would wonder if you were a scientologist, hence, crazy and afraid of exposure, haha.


Psychology is a soft science like physics, if you want to be so critical. String theory anyone? How about the recent discovery that carbon dating is affected by neutrinos from the sun, possibly alluding to dating being inaccurate depending on solar flares.

I will try and answer the other posts as well.

oh how careless of it
daring to string up my tongue
barely weaned and pried open

complicit- yes you!
the torch is burning your hand
it's true

relation, not cause
embarrassed by your fickle pause
Norwegian coffee

stymied winds
and freckled sails
dining on my own entrails

reproach my innocence
didactic bible maker-
never once did you pause

the wretched tetanus fence
has inoculated your limp arm daily,
since submission

now i race under the waves
iron lungs and cut off tongue
i would capitulate in pieces

there is no levity in that
you see,
and that is why you set me free

splitting my atoms would wipe your slate clean
tape it up!
we know what you claim

collisions, collusions, consent
aside
at least i walk away with pride
danaleekss

hey why are you so surprised?

cream always rises to the top.

and people solve psychic conflicts by dialectal reality testing.

the extremists are locked securely in projection. they actually see themselves in others extremism and respond to it by

1. rejecting it (as they initially rejected it inside themselves, due to most people being more tolerant)

2. felt angry (but that was to cover the fact they identified with it)

3. retaliated as an ego defense, matching the logic of the other side with similar tactics and evaluations.

4. carry the torch on to other people who struggle with understanding life in more complex terms.

there was this study done about how the brain 'blankets' collections of sensory data with black and white assumptions, simply because the neural network could not assimilate this information into useful meaning. Like, "my daughter was killed by a rapist, it was god's will, he needed an angel." and so forth. When it becomes too complex people regress to splitting to degrees of black and white and ignore all the grays. because black is black, and white is white, and there are a million different shades of grey. lots of work - just shoot, aim later. :)

I care what the Christians do. Now what?

That was sure a lovely progression of ideas.

I think this.

I do not.

I agree.

Me too, I agree.

I disagree

I disagree with your agreement

you know, it's been a pleasure discussing our own opinions and observations but not finding even one qualifying collection of words for some greater purpose, say, oh, finding common ground and solving our personal issues with people who feel differently from us.

very useful in life, while drinking whiskey.