God hates divorce. Yeah that is clear. Problem is, most churches muddy it by turning it into some dogmatic rule that means, if you get divorced, God hates you. That is far from the truth. God loves every one of His children, those who have recognized their need for salvation, and those who don't understand that yet. His son's blood covered every sin, past, present and future. So what is this deal about Him hating divorce? He hates it because of what it does to those that are impacted by it. It is not a sin that separates us from God. It is not something we need to recognize as an ongoing lifestyle that we need to repent from and make attempts at reconciliation so that God will love us again. It is a reality of many of our lives, that God so desperately wanted to guide us through life without us having to ever experience it, but since we (or our spouse) chose to start following our own thoughts, instead of His ways, a true marriage did not get a chance to grow. And in the end, the attempt at marriage ended. Imagine if your child wanted to do something you didn't want them to do. If they disobey, do you reject them. Of course not. How much more does our Heavenly father love us?

Where I live it is after 4am. SO I am gonna take a break after this post. Gotta sleep a little.

If I tell you, I have a lot of money and anyone that wants $100,000 can have it, what has to happen for someone to get it? If someone on the other side of the planet wants to claim that money, they are welcome to. I did not restrict them. Somehow, they have to become aware of the offer. Then they have to believe that I exist. They have to believe that I actually have the money. They have to believe that I will actually give it to them. Those are not conditions that I have placed on them. It is not a requirement I have made. I just said, here it is! They have to realize it is there, believe that they will actually receive it, and then make whatever efforts needed to actually obtain it.

The requirements to receive God's love are no less reasonable or conditional. Believe that He is there. Believe that you need something to bridge the gap between you and Him. Believe that He provided that through the death of a man, His son, on a cross. And believe that simply believing those things entitles you to that love which IS that bridge. It is a lot easier for a man in Australia to accept God's love, than my money.

Generally, from what little I understand of other religions, and even variations of Christianity, yes, most are all about attaining a better life way out there someday after you have lived this life and maybe a few others. The point I was making, from what I believe, (not what I have been taught all my life) is that Christianity, if you go to the root of the word, not necessarily what modern culture describes it as, is based in selfless love, and generally considering others more highly than yourself. The combination, if spread infectiously, could completely revolutionize the entire world. If you apply that to the concept of an all knowing Creator that is constantly interacting with mankind, guiding and helping, it starts to fit together with the idea that there is hope and a promise of a better life here on this planet, not just after death. I am not trying to convince you that Christianity is "right" or that God is real. I am just saying, Christianity as I believe it, does do exactly what you said would be a more sell worthy approach. It offers hope and happiness here in this life.

I think what it all comes down to is trust. Trusting God to guide us into that right relationship at the right time. He knows us. He knows what our desires are. If we know Him, we know His heart is to give us hope and a great future. One aspect of a great future can be having an amazing fulfilling relationship with a spouse. I feel God does make it clear, what His plan is for sex. I do agree that, like any other sin, sex outside of marriage is not a deal breaker. God does not all of a sudden say that the blood of His Son is no longer enough. But, what it does, it starts to build a division between God and us. When we choose to step outside of His plan for us, and take on our own version of it, we find more and more ways that we "know better" and eventually it totally erodes the real, living aspect of that relationship with God, and it turns into going through a lot of motions and rituals, because it is the "right" thing to do. God wants SO much more for us than just a slightly better life than we would have had, because we are following some of His guidelines. He presents what is best. If we go away from that, we are settling for less. He is still the loving Father that longs to bring us back into what is best.

Again, not an expert on every denomination or religion. But, it seems that what michiganman3 and I are referring to have a lot in common. "Christianity" as I believe it, is all about getting to know God now, in this life. It is all about His unconditional love for us, and His desire to bring us into a real life relationship with Him now, not in Heaven. Just like any real relationship, there are things you can do that will upset and hurt the other person, the same is true with God.

I am not sure what you say you can't agree with. I am not sure what you say is illogical. It seems to me that part of the problem is that you were in fact raised Catholic and Baptist. Both of these versions of "Christianity" vary widely in what they teach depending on the specific congregation you are in. And both rely heavily on some form of ritual or code to live by, to make you good enough to be accepted into Heaven. If that is in fact what you have outgrown, then that is excellent. That was never the point. God has always wanted a real, alive relationship with mankind. God made our beautiful planet for mankind to enjoy. God has only wanted to guide us into that relationship with Him, and into helping others know that He desires that same relationship with them.

The Bible, as I believe it, is a guide, a tool to be used. God created us, knows how we think and are, and knows the effects our choices and decisions will have on us and those around us. He gives us guidelines to help us in making the wiser, better decisions. If we get away from following that, we should expect things to start to fall apart. He made us, He knows how we tick. Wouldn't He know the best choice for us to make?

So then, are you seeking truth, or to just create debate?

This whole topic of free will, and divine intervention is a real challenge. I have heard stories of people standing looking at an angry person, holding a fully loaded weapon, and that person eventually pulling the trigger multiple times, and not one bullet ever striking them. I have heard stories of a man attempting suicide, and his weapon, though fully functional earlier that day, misfiring multiple times in a row. And even after inspecting, reloading, and attempting again, still misfiring. Then the next day, without doing anything to fix it, pick up the same weapon, and it fire every round in the clip without a misfire.

All that said, I believe we have a free will. We can choose to do stupid things. And so can others. I just believe that God is watching, and constantly intervening to keep His will on track. He has a plan and purpose for every living thing He created. I don't necessarily believe that the moment you fulfill your major function on this planet that all of a sudden you will die. I do believe that God allows some things to happen, and chooses to then turn those tragedies into good things in the lives that it impacted, and at other times, He steps in and totally stops tragedies from occurring.

I am almost 32. I have been in church all my life. I have heard all kinds of stories, even have a few of my own. I can't speak for all the religions out there, I am not taking comparative religions till next semester. But, the angle that "Christians" don't tend to "sell" Christianity with is this, God does promise you a much better life in the here and now. He doesn't promise that it will all be a bed of roses. But He promises, as the all knowing, all seeing creator, to guide you through everything you face, and bring it all about for your good. SO any tragedy that happens, He will work it out so that you are better for having faced it.

The problem is, too many "Christians" fail to hold up their own end of the deal, the whole part about actually letting God lead, and actually following where He guides. This makes others hesitant to promote Christianity in that way.

Shoot, take myself for an example. I got away from trusting God to guide, and just went out and picked a wife out. God has done amazing things in my life through the process of the divorce that was final a little over a year ago, and He continues to help me with the issues that I, and my daughters, face because of it. He takes the messes we make of our lives, and if we let Him, He will start to make slow adjustments and somewhere along the way, we look back and realize how different things are now compared to when He started, and we don't miss the old, in fact we LOVE the new. It all works because God DOES know us down to every little detail. He made us that way. Now we sure can do things to influence all that. But, if we truly surrender to Him, it is simply amazing what He can do with our lives, and the joy and peace He can bring.

Being a recent addition to that statistic (ok so there wasn't one given, but still) I would say, too many "Christians" aren't ready to dedicate their entire lives, including choice of a mate, and the timing of that choice, to God. It is so easy to be doing all the right things, and even living out a real relationship with God, and then allow a small amount of discontent to grow. Eventually, We take the job of finding a mate into our own hands, and tada, we walk down an aisle, hoping God will help make this relationship, that we just put together on our own, work. On the other side of the picture, (the un-churched world) I think there are some things in our modern culture that are affecting that stat as well. I see more people co-habitating, or dating the same person for YEARS, and never marrying. I think that the unchurched are more likley to wait longer, and be pickier. Where, in the churched world, we tend to think if we are both "Christians" then God will make it work for us. Then the same root of discontent that got us to date that other person in the first place, shows up in the marriage, and once it grows big enough, a judge gets involved. I say all of this from my own, first hand observation. Maybe I am the only one out there that just got tired of being single, picked a "Christian" girl, and eventually found out that I picked her, not God. Now, 7 yr marriage, two daughters, and a little over a year of being divorced (she chose to leave), I realize, I don't wanna pick. I want Him to.