I won't try to repeat the great advice; all good stuff.

To prevent awkward silences and to avoid interrogation dates, it's good to have some "filler" topics, which are usually provided by the venue. For example, you can ask how hot she likes her chicken wings, or if she has seen Les Miserables, or if she goes to the Blues festivals, if you are at a wings restaurant or a musical show or seeing a Blues band, respectively.

And yes... no lame jokes. However, humor is an attractive trait. High-status males should use more self-deprecating humor and less other-deprecating humor, whereas low-status males should be careful not to self-deprecate too much because it calls attention to their lower status.

"Get a life" is a harsh thing to say. But most people here would say they are looking for someone with whom they can share their life, and it's possible many of them have no life to share, and are waiting until they find someone. Speaking personally, I'm not waiting for anything.

TawtStrat - Loved your "join the club" post.

He didn't say he can't GET the girl. He said he can't "meet a girl".

Some time ago, I reviewed where I find my women. In the vast majority, they were extended social contacts. For example, we attended the same party, dropped in on the same running event, played trivia on the same team, etc. I concluded that where I am more social, I have more possibilities. Perhaps this may also apply to you.

I hope it helps.

You said, "I just need a girl". Self-respecting girls want to be a someone; not an anyone.

Likewise, there are women who "just need a guy". Do you really want to be "that guy"?

oldhippie1952 and sweetestgirl 11 have both touched a chord for me, for I was new (again) to the scene not long ago. I'll tell you what I know...

Here are some points of etiquette which seem to work for me:

1. Women may express interest in a variety of ways; some subtle and some not. Usually, however, men must also express some interest and availability. If you are always talking about your children and how your life is a disaster and filled 100% with activities that no one would want to join you for... you are not displaying availability. It takes a bit of practice to learn to flirt without being creepy. To do this, you must venture OUT of your comfort zone. All the magic happens OUTSIDE of your comfort zone.

2. GET OUT. If you stay in your same, stable, social groups or watch TV to fill your free time, then you will never develop the social skills you need, and let's face it, you need to BE the person you think someone will enjoy. Buy a dirt bike, or do a Warrior Dash, or go skiing -- whatever. Be interesting.

3. The onus of planning is on the person who is doing the asking out. Usually, that's the guy. And for you ladies, if a guy asks you on a Monday for a weekend event, PLEASE understand that you are his first choice, but if you can't make it (or don't want to), let him know ASAP because he may need to develop alternative plans if you can't make it: invite someone else, turn it into a group activity, visit his brother in Des Moines; whatever.

4. When asking out a girl, a guy should be specific: Exactly who, what, when, and where. The "why" can be inferred. That way, a girl can let you down gracefully. "Oh, drat; I have a graduation to attend at that time! Thank you, though!". If she follows it up with very much else, such as "Too bad it wasn't next weekend!", you can take that as a good sign.

5. Don't be disappointed if you get turned down. Sometimes it's just not good timing for the other person... waiting for an existing relationship to implode, need to start the new job, getting over a terrible UTI, etc.

6. Schedule some group activities; facebook can be useful for that. I figure that if someone is interested, they will find a way to get to know you better, even if it's not a "date".

I'm sure there are MANY more observations I could make, but I really have to pay attention to this work meeting, now. :)

Summarizing the prior postings, I heard:
o You deserve a lot more,
o Wait until you find the right guy,
o You may feel used,
o You may feel feel guilty because it isn't "right",
o You may get entangled,
o If you can, go for it,
o Warning: Just sex will never lead to a worthwhile friendship,
o No! Think of the children!

Regarding the first argument that you "deserve" more, I don't buy it. It's like going hungry with your friends at the Dairy Queen because you "deserve" a steak. Beware, however, that there is an opportunity cost with having FWBs: If your social groups gain an awareness that this is a fixed part of being you, it will scare off more serious suitors. Stated another way, if you get the "rep", you're stuck with it.

Regarding the concern about your kids, I assume this would be on the down-low.

But I totally get that your busy life may not really have the time for tending to a real "relationship", and the question you have to ask yourself is if you're willing to be celibate for the next 10 years while things calm down. I think you decided, "no".

Best of luck to you. Hang in there. Keep us posted.

Relax, be yourself, be happy with yourself, and you will find the exact right girl for you -- your soulmate. The perfect ONE.

I've found her many times over.

And you will too. Don't worry.

Well, I tell ya'. I was just in rural Ohio and made note of a very common pairing which I saw repeated over and over.

The guy: White. Skinny. Camo. Tan. Muscular. Lean. Lines on his face. Nascar cap. Sunglasses worn on the cap. Energetic.

His woman: White. Twice his weight. Boobage. No tan. Exhausted.

And yes, truck always. Tats sometimes.

This was at a state park. The boys were wild. Their parents and sisters carried the "stuff".

So I don't know about women DATING skinny guys, but there are a lot of couples where that's the match-up.

Hey SingMeSweet,
I owe you an answer on the "football, gambling and drug use" example, so here goes:

I know many couples where one will "cheat" and have a cigarette. The smoker actually calls it "cheating", I suppose, because he/she is sneaking it, and it was apparently a serious issue for them. Other drug use: same kindof thing. Would I call that cheating? Yes.

Gambling can absolutely be cheating, for some couples. Usually there's a guy siphoning family funds to feed his addiction of it. And yeah... it may not be sexual, but a lot of couples call that cheating and it can be a lot more serious than shagging some strumpet in the bar parking lot in moment of poor judgement. Would I call this kind of a gambling problem cheating? Yes.

Football... well, I threw that in the list for two reasons. Firstly, I have memories of my father having a football problem. If the Redskins won, he had a great weekend. If not, he was crabby, actually taking the team's loss as a personal loss. It became an issue and he agreed to step away from ever getting that involved with it. It was very much like a gambling or porn addiction for him and so strangely, falling of the wagon, so to speak, would likely have been regarded as "cheating".

The second reason why I mention football comes down to simple dating etiquette. When on a date as a couple, the rule is to give priority to your date rather than to anyone or anything else in the room. I have heard women complain that their date will spend a lot of time chatting up the waitresses, and even though it's not hidden from view, the comments I hear indicate to me that they feel like he's cheating on her right in front of her!
Do I think that's cheating? Well, no. But it's pretty damn rude. Oh... and the last time I heard this complaint, it wasn't about the waitress, it was about the game that was on TV. And yes, this was already an issue for this couple. They go out to have fun, he watches TV, and she sits there bored.

Does that help?

I've only heard of boys doing this, but I'm curious to know, also.

SingMeSweet,
I guess I go more with the TammyA definition:
"Anything you can't tell your significant other about. "

Regarding your question about oral, President Clinton established using the definition given him that he did not have sex with Monica, since he received, but did not give. (I love the wikipedia.org)

Your comments simply reminded me of that. :-)

And what is cheating? Just the obvious?
How about:
Texting, sexting, etc.?
Oral, petting, etc.?
Paying too much attention to another when your SO is right there?
Paying too much attention to another secretly? (Which is worse?)
Gambling, football, drug use? Can those be cheating?

The question isn't, "Am I having sex?"
but rather, "Am I doing something my SO would be upset with?"

It's not really about sex. This point was driven home to be by a T-shirt slogan I saw: "It's not cheating if my husband is watching."

My answer: "As you wish."

When you're done stalking her.
(Was that not the right answer???)

Best thing I got: How to spend money on me.
Worst thing I got: A Valentines Day card: Unaddressed and unsigned!

(Maybe I'll re-gift it someday.)

Hey ujGearhead,
And do you have an active social life which includes dating?

I do... and I've been accused of being a "player". Sometimes, a guy just can't win!


Oh, did I mention that I don't watch sports and can dance???

Maybe that makes up for the lack of ponytail?

:-)

Thank you, Teadipper.

Not only are the expectations a bit unrealistic, they are also... oh how do I say this... oh just horrible.

For all you ladies waiting for someone to take care of you and your offspring until you find the next guy to take to the cleaners... well, you might be fun to date, but I will never respect you, and I'm not falling for that either. Teadipper, you can tell your friends that good men are out there, but they usually avoid the type of women you describe.

For many women looking for Mr. Right, I prefer to be Mr. Wrong.

I don't want a woman to say, "I need you so much!"
I'd prefer she not need me at all. It would mean so much more.

And by the way... I ran 7 miles yesterday, my hair is still full, I don't wear glasses, my finances are in good shape and I ONLY hang out with nice people. I am happy by myself. Strangely that means that I'm usually not by myself!

This thread touches upon an interesting phenomenon, which is that similar people find each other. It is always noteworthy and sometimes suspect to meet a couple that seem mismatched. In fact, just recognizing the mismatch reveals in yourself that you have some notion of a "proper match".

Just yesterday, I was noticing at a restaurant how couples tend to look like one another. They usually appear to be from the same socioeconomic group. Rarely would you see a tall well-dressed white businessman with a fresh haircut dining with a short woman in sweats who hasn't had time to brush her hair.

According to one study done as part of a speed-dating activity, they got a ranking of each participants attractiveness (from the participants of the opposite sex), and asked each guy, "Would you go out with her?" They also asked the same of each girl: "Would you go out with him?"

Men seemed to have a threshold of attractiveness and anything that or better is fair game.

Women very clearly had a range of attractiveness which matched how they perceived themselves. Most of the women responded that they would NOT date the James Bond lookalike, for example, even if he was attracted to her. [So the song's advice may be hard to obey, for the "ugly girl" will not marry you, either.]

In the old days, many young women were given advice of the form, "Never marry a man more attractive than you are."

And so, couples seems to be well-matched. But it seems that it's the women who enforce these rules.

Having read all of the above advice regarding techniques, here is what I have...

1. Message anyone who interest you
2. Find others you get along w/ on the forums
3. Wait for messages, but reply. Then chat, phone, meet(in public)
4. Initiate contact "on an ongoing basis".

Numbers 1 and 4 (aggressive messaging) make sense. How one finds local people to message wasn't specified. I presume it's done using the search feature, since most forum posters don't live nearby (not into LDRs myself).

Number 2 (forum participation) seemed to be scoped to other websites where forums are more local.

Number 3 (Replying) is good advice, but I assume that works best for people who receive messages. (I am not so lucky.)

So... for those of you who engage in aggressive messaging, how do you find whom to message? I assume you use the search feature, find a pretty face, and then pick something interesting from each profile to comment upon? Most profiles are one-liners, so what, exactly, is the technique? "Hi, uh... nice shirt."


Advice?

Okay, then... as a reader, I too, would like to know more about HOW you made it work for you -- for those of you are successful like ManOfFewWords... how do you use the site?

Obviously, posting a picture and filling out the profile is not sufficient. And we've already heard that nudges and winks don't work.

So if it's not "giving away your man-secrets", do tell!