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I can just imagine the conversation in the jail cell now... "Hey what are you in for"-Robbery "What about you"-Rape "and you"-I was praying in a public park. When it comes to Christians expressing their freedom of religion anywhere other than church or home they get thrown under the bus every time.The sad ugly truth is everyone seems to get a free pass except the Christians.Christians have the right to protest just like everyone else has the right to protest.I also don't see how someone kneeling in the grass silently praying is a threat to anyone.I would have to give those police officers p**sies of they year award if they think those people are a danger. For those who keep up with news such as this it is hardly news.I have read many stories of Christians getting trampled over like a cheap rug time and time again especially around Christmas.I posted this because it is eerily reminiscent of what Hitler thugs were doing shortly before the final solution of the Jews.Stopped them from praying,boycotted their businesses,burned their churches,and had them murdered in mass numbers.In a different kind of way I see our government doing the same thing.No praying in public,arrest and jail time for speaking the bible,arrest of preists and closure of churches under the "hate crimes" bill,and God only knows what else down the road. yeah, I think it is kind of a sad thing for people to be arrested in a PUBLIC park for something like praying. I wonder if they would arrest me at a public park if a vegetarian group happened to be holding an event there and I showed up and sat down to eat some baked chicken...lol the point is, although people may get a permit to hold events at public parks, they still dont OWN the park on that day, permits dont include anything about being allowed to EXCLUDE people. I can understand an exception when people are being disruptive but I cant imagine a situation where silence is disrupting,, The arrest was stupid and a waste of time in my opinion. I am glad it was overturned. They weren't there to pray!!! Are you telling me that picking a specific spot in front of the event's stage, at a time when the event was in full swing, is to be constituted as a 'HAPPENED TO BE INNOCENTLY PRAYING IN A PARK' motive!?!?!? C'mon 'msharmony', you are not going to try pushing this kind of phoniness and hypocrisy!!! They were invited by the officers to move 'their praying session', to a more appropriate place in the park. THEY STAUNCHLY REFUSED!!! Prying was not their intent. Praying was a 'front', a 'pretense'. Blasphemy IMO. They were 'center staging' an illegal counter demonstration!!! 'christians fundamentalists' are not above law and order!!! I agree, noone is above law and order. They were arrested and the arrests were overturned. Apparently the courts didnt think they had committed any crime and I cant think of one either. Whatever their 'intent',,,in a public park I believe it was their right to do as they wish so long as they didnt harm others or disrupt the public peace. Yes, it's a public park. They could have picked any part of the park to pray at...under any tree...by any flowers....on the grass.... They instead "made their way to an area in front of the stage and began to pray silently while lying prostrate in the grass." That is disrupting an event! It is no more or less criminal than peaceful protest. They said the same about sit ins at one time. Six people lying on the grass should not disrupt a crowd of ...(hundreds? ). I doubt that anyone past the first row or two even would know of their presence. Now if they were waiving banners, playing music loudly, screaming at the top of their lungs (as is done outside many abortion clinics) I would agree with the fuss. But laying on the ground in a public park,,nah, leave them about their business , ignore them, continue what you are doing. You consistently demonstrate this ambiguous, ambivalent and completely contradictory 'two-sided' personality throughout your posts. You come across as a reasonable and intelligent person, whom happens to be christian, on the one hand, and yet, you will senselessly defend the most unreasonable and stupid acts from fundamentalist militant christians?!?!?! ... loosing all the 'good faith' credit gained. Which is it 'msharmony'??? Can't be 'having your cake and it eat too' !!! |
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Edited by
voileazur
on
Thu 03/04/10 08:06 AM
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I can just imagine the conversation in the jail cell now... "Hey what are you in for"-Robbery "What about you"-Rape "and you"-I was praying in a public park. When it comes to Christians expressing their freedom of religion anywhere other than church or home they get thrown under the bus every time.The sad ugly truth is everyone seems to get a free pass except the Christians.Christians have the right to protest just like everyone else has the right to protest.I also don't see how someone kneeling in the grass silently praying is a threat to anyone.I would have to give those police officers p**sies of they year award if they think those people are a danger. For those who keep up with news such as this it is hardly news.I have read many stories of Christians getting trampled over like a cheap rug time and time again especially around Christmas.I posted this because it is eerily reminiscent of what Hitler thugs were doing shortly before the final solution of the Jews.Stopped them from praying,boycotted their businesses,burned their churches,and had them murdered in mass numbers.In a different kind of way I see our government doing the same thing.No praying in public,arrest and jail time for speaking the bible,arrest of preists and closure of churches under the "hate crimes" bill,and God only knows what else down the road. yeah, I think it is kind of a sad thing for people to be arrested in a PUBLIC park for something like praying. I wonder if they would arrest me at a public park if a vegetarian group happened to be holding an event there and I showed up and sat down to eat some baked chicken...lol the point is, although people may get a permit to hold events at public parks, they still dont OWN the park on that day, permits dont include anything about being allowed to EXCLUDE people. I can understand an exception when people are being disruptive but I cant imagine a situation where silence is disrupting,, The arrest was stupid and a waste of time in my opinion. I am glad it was overturned. They weren't there to pray!!! Are you telling me that picking a specific spot in front of the event's stage, at a time when the event was in full swing, is to be constituted as a 'HAPPENED TO BE INNOCENTLY PRAYING IN A PARK' motive!?!?!? C'mon 'msharmony', you are not going to try pushing this kind of phoniness and hypocrisy!!! They were invited by the officers to move 'their praying session', to a more appropriate place in the park. THEY STAUNCHLY REFUSED!!! Prying was not their intent. Praying was a 'front', a 'pretense'. Blasphemy IMO. They were 'center staging' an illegal counter demonstration!!! 'christians fundamentalists' are not above law and order!!! I agree, noone is above law and order. They were arrested and the arrests were overturned. Apparently the courts didnt think they had committed any crime and I cant think of one either. Whatever their 'intent',,,in a public park I believe it was their right to do as they wish so long as they didnt harm others or disrupt the public peace. That is not accurate 'msharmony'!!! THEY DID DISRUPT THE PUBLIC PEACE!!! And charges were dismissed for the 'sheeps' in the group. The judge showed them clemence. But the charges were totally and absolutely upheld for the instigator of the 'disorderly act': Julian Raven, known by the authorities as a public agitator. Clemence to some, does not imply condoning acts of gratuitous public provocation. You know better than that 'msharmony'. |
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Edited by
voileazur
on
Thu 03/04/10 07:48 AM
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I can just imagine the conversation in the jail cell now... "Hey what are you in for"-Robbery "What about you"-Rape "and you"-I was praying in a public park. When it comes to Christians expressing their freedom of religion anywhere other than church or home they get thrown under the bus every time.The sad ugly truth is everyone seems to get a free pass except the Christians.Christians have the right to protest just like everyone else has the right to protest.I also don't see how someone kneeling in the grass silently praying is a threat to anyone.I would have to give those police officers p**sies of they year award if they think those people are a danger. For those who keep up with news such as this it is hardly news.I have read many stories of Christians getting trampled over like a cheap rug time and time again especially around Christmas.I posted this because it is eerily reminiscent of what Hitler thugs were doing shortly before the final solution of the Jews.Stopped them from praying,boycotted their businesses,burned their churches,and had them murdered in mass numbers.In a different kind of way I see our government doing the same thing.No praying in public,arrest and jail time for speaking the bible,arrest of preists and closure of churches under the "hate crimes" bill,and God only knows what else down the road. yeah, I think it is kind of a sad thing for people to be arrested in a PUBLIC park for something like praying. I wonder if they would arrest me at a public park if a vegetarian group happened to be holding an event there and I showed up and sat down to eat some baked chicken...lol the point is, although people may get a permit to hold events at public parks, they still dont OWN the park on that day, permits dont include anything about being allowed to EXCLUDE people. I can understand an exception when people are being disruptive but I cant imagine a situation where silence is disrupting,, The arrest was stupid and a waste of time in my opinion. I am glad it was overturned. They weren't there to pray!!! And they charged with that either. This is blatant mis characterization. The charges most correctly addressed the group intent to provoke, and cause public disorder. '... Assistant Police Chief Mike Robertson told WND at the time that the members were accused of a "combination" of allegations, including the "intent" to cause a public inconvenience, a "disturbance" of a meeting of persons and obstructing vehicular or pedestrian traffic. He also said at the time that the accusations would include taking part in "any act that serves no legitimate purpose" ...' Purposefully picking a center-stage spot, at a time when the event was in full swing, can not in any way shape or form, constitute a 'HAPPENED TO BE INNOCENTLY PRAYING IN A PARK' motive!?!?!? C'mon 'msharmony', you are not going to try pushing this kind of phoniness and hypocrisy!!! They were invited by the officers to move 'their praying session', to a more appropriate place in the park. THEY STAUNCHLY REFUSED!!! Praying was not their intent. Praying was a 'front', a 'pretense'. Blasphemy IMO. They were 'center staging' an illegal counter demonstration!!! And being charged with disorderly conduct is the most appropriate consequence, even when you're a 'christians fundamentalists'!!! |
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Edited by
voileazur
on
Thu 03/04/10 06:35 AM
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Triple post!!!
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Edited by
voileazur
on
Thu 03/04/10 06:18 AM
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Double post!
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Edited by
voileazur
on
Thu 03/04/10 06:44 AM
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I can just imagine the conversation in the jail cell now... "Hey what are you in for"-Robbery "What about you"-Rape "and you"-I was praying in a public park. When it comes to Christians expressing their freedom of religion anywhere other than church or home they get thrown under the bus every time.The sad ugly truth is everyone seems to get a free pass except the Christians.Christians have the right to protest just like everyone else has the right to protest.I also don't see how someone kneeling in the grass silently praying is a threat to anyone.I would have to give those police officers p**sies of they year award if they think those people are a danger. For those who keep up with news such as this it is hardly news.I have read many stories of Christians getting trampled over like a cheap rug time and time again especially around Christmas.I posted this because it is eerily reminiscent of what Hitler thugs were doing shortly before the final solution of the Jews.Stopped them from praying,boycotted their businesses,burned their churches,and had them murdered in mass numbers.In a different kind of way I see our government doing the same thing.No praying in public,arrest and jail time for speaking the bible,arrest of preists and closure of churches under the "hate crimes" bill,and God only knows what else down the road. Nothing stops 'christians' of any denomination to protest!?!?!? They simply need to follow the laws of the land like any and every other citizens. Apply for a permit, determine the purpose, and inform the authorities of the location of the manifestation or protest, and proceed. The 'christian fundamentalist zealots' mentioned int he article above, have steered clear of all living up to any requirements to hold the 'counter-demonstration' they have held. They intentionally chose to provoke. The police reaction to acts of PURE PROVOCATION on the part of 'christian fundamentalist zealots', with the very real intent of causing violent riots, and disturbing a perfectly peaceful and legitimate event, ... CAN NOT BE RECUPERATED, TWISTED AND MISREPRESENTED AS AN ACT OF PERSECUTION!!! ... towards the very contravening provoking agents!!! Their first intent was to provoke. NOT PRAY. When they were ask to leave the front of the stage to practice their 'praying' in a more appropriate place, they staunchly refused. Their intent was not to pray. Their intent was to 'hypocritically' disturb the peace!!! As though that wasn't double faced enough, the comments of the opening post dishonestly brings up ... '... it is eerily reminiscent of what Hitler thugs were doing shortly before the final solution of the Jews...'. Now, those comments are squarely on the side of disturbing, and turning into pure mockery, the REAL persecution and suffering of the Jewish people during WWII!!! We can't expect 'christian fundamentalist extremists' to be rational, reasonable, nor RESPONSIBLE. But we must be relentless in denouncing their acts, and overall behavior as PURE DELIRIUM!!! P.S.: Without ever making a parallel with the WWII genocide, if people are seeking to stand up and defend one particular group of human beings whom are truly being persecuted and gratuitously attacked here in North America, and 'executed' in many countries of the world, then stand up for the equal rights for homosexuals and against the aggressive persecution and harassment of the 'christian fundamentalist bullies'!!! |
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http://www.wnd.com/index.php?pageId=126712 Praying in park called 'disorderly conduct' Conviction 'ridiculous,' says attorney. 'This never should have happened' A New York man is appealing a "disorderly conduct" conviction for praying in a public park. Julian Raven, defended by the Alliance Defense Fund, was arrested while praying in an Elmira public park during a 2007 "gay pride" event. "It's ridiculous to consider the act of peacefully exercising one's faith in a public park to be 'disorderly conduct,'" said ADF Senior Legal Counsel Joel Oster. "The county court was correct in dismissing three of the convictions. They never should have happened. We are hopeful that the New York Court of Appeals will dismiss the fourth." The WND reported when the original convictions of four people were appealed. Three of the convictions already have been overturned. Wisner Park in Elmira, N.Y. Originally, seven people were arrested for praying during the June 23, 2007, homosexual festival in Elmira's Wisner Park that was promoted by city officials. Three defendants were removed from the case almost immediately, leaving four to be convicted by Elmira city judge Thomas Ramich of "disorderly conduct." The convictions for three – Gloria Raven, Maurice Kienenberger and Walter Quick – later were overturned in the Chemung County Court. The legal team defending the Christians reported the event was advertised by the city as open to the public. The Christians "made their way to an area in front of the stage and began to pray silently while lying prostrate in the grass. A police sergeant had earlier informed Julian Raven that he could not enter the public park, walk through the park, or talk to anyone in the park about his religion. After the group began to pray silently on their faces, all were arrested and charged with disorderly conduct," the organization reported. Court records show that a Sgt. Sharon Moyer told Raven he could not disrupt the event. So, the ADF reported, he and the others "entered the event to pray silently for event participants and to share the Gospel with them." "There was plenty of room in the park. No one was being turned away. They walked in silence. Neither the defendant nor anyone from the group bumped into anyone as they entered and they did not force others out of the way," ADF said. They walked to a grassy area near the front, kneeled down or laid down, and prayed. "They chose this posture in order to be as non-threatening as possible," ADF said. Moyer reported she made the arrests because she was concerned that the "pridefest' participants might react with hostility to the Christians." ADF argues that under the First and Fourteenth amendments to the U.S. Constitution, "peaceful speakers may not be arrested simply because others in the forum may react to their message in a hostile manner." "The lower courts in this case ruled that the arrests were proper because the defendant must have known that other event participants would respond with hostility. This, however, is precisely what the … cases prohibit," the ADF asserts. When the Christians were arrested, officials with Elmira justified their actions to WND. Assistant Police Chief Mike Robertson told WND at the time that the members were accused of a "combination" of allegations, including the "intent" to cause a public inconvenience, a "disturbance" of a meeting of persons and obstructing vehicular or pedestrian traffic. He also said at the time that the accusations would include taking part in "any act that serves no legitimate purpose." The prosecutor, Robert Siglin, said the city was concerned for public safety, and that's why the Christians were arrested while exercising their First Amendment rights. Chrisitian fundamentalist 'PROVOCATION' was the disorderly act. |
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It never fails to amaze me how much whining and complaing I hear from the left and the liberals any time anyone attempts to take away their right to free speech.But yet you have Rush who is only speaking his mind(like it or not)and now it's a wonderful thing he nearly died simply because you can not stand his views.There is a ton of people I can not stomach to listen to no matter what they have to say but I don't rejoice when they nearly die.Just because they have political views different from yours that doesn't mean they may not have lots of common ground with you on other issues.The freedom of free speech is a wonderful thing in this country.It keeps balance and equality with people who have opposing views.I know when I listen to the radio stations I am always happy to hear one radio station who is conservative and one that is liberal.I know if they were all liberal or all conservative it would only lead to a huge mess and a lot of anger and hate. It's a free country people.You don't like what Rush has to say then don't listen to him.I can't stand Howard stern and I don't like the man but I know a lot of people do and it's really none of my business to play God and wish that he dies soon.You people that wish that Rush dies soon only show your true colors towards a society with out free speech or freedom of thought.If Rush offended you go cry to Obama you momma and tell him you want him kicked off the air so you can have your liberal only talk shows that the majority of Americans can't stomach for more than ten minutes. Calm down 'thomas3474'!!! No one here REALLY wishes ill or arm to any one else. It is naive and hypocritical to suggest otherwise i your comments. Second degree filters are essential in weighing people's words and their true intent when we afford the freedom to speak their mind. If you are such a lover and defender of 'freedom of speech' like most everyone in the western world, why would dissenting voices from what you claim to be YOUR BIASES, '... never fail to amaze you...'!?!?!?! Be consistent with your 'freedom of speech' conviction, and celebrate it every time you come across dissenting and contradicting opinions and views. I must disagree with you Mr. V...............it is a well known fact that certain "groups" of individuals do wish harm to others, and specifically to Rush Limbaugh as he poses a threat to the agenda of those who oppose Rush. And, after reading through this post, I am thoroughly convinced that when certain people wished harm on Rush Limbaugh, they certainly meant what they said. Please, do not offend us by attempting to convince us that we are naieve............NOR should we have to "FILTER" through anything and play mind readers. When individuals make a statement, it is naturally and legitimately considered that statement to be of their true belief and intent. Dear 'Lady Lindyy', You obviously have an opinion, and appear to be in full agreement with it!!! That is good! Unfortunately, reality and the 'annoying' line-up of facts show little sympathy for your position. Whether YOU, or many others, might believe in '... one's statement to be naturally and legitimately their true belief and intent...', ... in an overwhelming majority of instances, action doesn't follow, thereby contradicting the 'first degree' nature of the statement!!! If we were to prosecute everyone on their statements alone 'Dear Lady Lindyy', we wouldn't be living in a 'free' North America. Rush Limbaugh, along with his supporters, AND DETRACTORS, live and thrive inside a 'freedom of speech' paradigm !!! I'm afraid your argument is severely inaccurate. Here are some statements heard often, which shouldn't be taken literally... : "... I could just wring the neck of those little monsters..." "... Why did I ever have children..." "... I wish I could just be on a desert island, away from it all..." "... We should all send them back where they come from..." The list goes on... Hate to break it to you 'Lady Lindyy', but if you didn't exercise your own 'first degree' filter daily, and took most statements made 'with a grain of salt', you wouldn't be posting on these forums with the rest of us. You would be working for a 'gestapo' like fascist police, denouncing and prosecuting the whole bunch of us!!! ............"Hate to break it to you 'Lady Lindyy', but if you didn't exercise your own 'first degree' filter daily, and took most statements made 'with a grain of salt', you wouldn't be posting on these forums with the rest of us. You would be working for a 'gestapo' like fascist police, denouncing and prosecuting the whole bunch of us!!!......." Mr. V........The above paragraph (in fact, your ENTIRE post to my post, is your opinion and your opinion ONLY......sorry Charlie......) Your opinion does not constitute law...fact, theory, etc. It merely constitutes your own opinion. 
Thank you Dear 'Lady Lindyy', ... ironically, in your very own reply, you have exercised your 'very own first degree filter' as proposed in my argument, ... thus taking my statements 'with a grain of salt'. Good work, and perfect 'live' example. I'm glad, with your help Dear 'Lady Lindyy', that we could make a brilliant demonstration of 'first degree filter', and close this 'case' so diligently!!! NOPE........I just love having the last word.......... 
By all means 'LADY LINDYY'
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It never fails to amaze me how much whining and complaing I hear from the left and the liberals any time anyone attempts to take away their right to free speech.But yet you have Rush who is only speaking his mind(like it or not)and now it's a wonderful thing he nearly died simply because you can not stand his views.There is a ton of people I can not stomach to listen to no matter what they have to say but I don't rejoice when they nearly die.Just because they have political views different from yours that doesn't mean they may not have lots of common ground with you on other issues.The freedom of free speech is a wonderful thing in this country.It keeps balance and equality with people who have opposing views.I know when I listen to the radio stations I am always happy to hear one radio station who is conservative and one that is liberal.I know if they were all liberal or all conservative it would only lead to a huge mess and a lot of anger and hate. It's a free country people.You don't like what Rush has to say then don't listen to him.I can't stand Howard stern and I don't like the man but I know a lot of people do and it's really none of my business to play God and wish that he dies soon.You people that wish that Rush dies soon only show your true colors towards a society with out free speech or freedom of thought.If Rush offended you go cry to Obama you momma and tell him you want him kicked off the air so you can have your liberal only talk shows that the majority of Americans can't stomach for more than ten minutes. Calm down 'thomas3474'!!! No one here REALLY wishes ill or arm to any one else. It is naive and hypocritical to suggest otherwise i your comments. Second degree filters are essential in weighing people's words and their true intent when we afford the freedom to speak their mind. If you are such a lover and defender of 'freedom of speech' like most everyone in the western world, why would dissenting voices from what you claim to be YOUR BIASES, '... never fail to amaze you...'!?!?!?! Be consistent with your 'freedom of speech' conviction, and celebrate it every time you come across dissenting and contradicting opinions and views. I must disagree with you Mr. V...............it is a well known fact that certain "groups" of individuals do wish harm to others, and specifically to Rush Limbaugh as he poses a threat to the agenda of those who oppose Rush. And, after reading through this post, I am thoroughly convinced that when certain people wished harm on Rush Limbaugh, they certainly meant what they said. Please, do not offend us by attempting to convince us that we are naieve............NOR should we have to "FILTER" through anything and play mind readers. When individuals make a statement, it is naturally and legitimately considered that statement to be of their true belief and intent. Dear 'Lady Lindyy', You obviously have an opinion, and appear to be in full agreement with it!!! That is good! Unfortunately, reality and the 'annoying' line-up of facts show little sympathy for your position. Whether YOU, or many others, might believe in '... one's statement to be naturally and legitimately their true belief and intent...', ... in an overwhelming majority of instances, action doesn't follow, thereby contradicting the 'first degree' nature of the statement!!! If we were to prosecute everyone on their statements alone 'Dear Lady Lindyy', we wouldn't be living in a 'free' North America. Rush Limbaugh, along with his supporters, AND DETRACTORS, live and thrive inside a 'freedom of speech' paradigm !!! I'm afraid your argument is severely inaccurate. Here are some statements heard often, which shouldn't be taken literally... : "... I could just wring the neck of those little monsters..." "... Why did I ever have children..." "... I wish I could just be on a desert island, away from it all..." "... We should all send them back where they come from..." The list goes on... Hate to break it to you 'Lady Lindyy', but if you didn't exercise your own 'first degree' filter daily, and took most statements made 'with a grain of salt', you wouldn't be posting on these forums with the rest of us. You would be working for a 'gestapo' like fascist police, denouncing and prosecuting the whole bunch of us!!! ............"Hate to break it to you 'Lady Lindyy', but if you didn't exercise your own 'first degree' filter daily, and took most statements made 'with a grain of salt', you wouldn't be posting on these forums with the rest of us. You would be working for a 'gestapo' like fascist police, denouncing and prosecuting the whole bunch of us!!!......." Mr. V........The above paragraph (in fact, your ENTIRE post to my post, is your opinion and your opinion ONLY......sorry Charlie......) Your opinion does not constitute law...fact, theory, etc. It merely constitutes your own opinion.
Thank you Dear 'Lady Lindyy', ... ironically, in your very own reply, you have exercised your 'very own first degree filter' as proposed in my argument, ... thus taking my statements 'with a grain of salt'. Good work, and perfect 'live' example. I'm glad, with your help Dear 'Lady Lindyy', that we could make a brilliant demonstration of 'first degree filter', and close this 'case' so diligently!!! |
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Topic:
Is the end of time here?
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for those that sought to work for and please god, did not see to work for their own fellow man as one was as to work for god, and were lowered low low low unto the ground, not seeing the reality itself experience it created for itself, for it did not wish to admit it cared not about anything except itself most, but rather sought to convince itself it did care, but it only sought to care about other's to obtain mercy for itself, for what that seek mercy and good for itself receieve none, but what that seek mercy and good for it's own fellow man and friends and family recieve all. No offense intended here....but I can never figure out what it is your trying to say. 
sigh, thank you, I thought noone would ever say it and I thought I was maybe crazy for thinking it,,, why would one doubt what it's own brain tell itself about itself??? for the self validating brain can find any proof it wish, from the self validating pool of talking heads in the universe, freely offered up on a silver platter, for self to eat and dine on the words it wish, but such is to only seek to prove to self, how what it's own brain whisper about ITSELF, be not accurate. ok,, It just takes some adjusting to your writing style of the absence of subject verb agreements,,,,but its all good,, do what you do get through to those who can decipher and dont sweat the rest, we all get to say what we want how we want to say it, I think our friend was just politely bringing to your attention that any message you are trying to share is often lost in your 'style' of communication. But its just an observation,, do with it what you will,, naturally. Good for you 'msharmony'! Most will simply trip all over and judge 'davidben1' on 'form', as they do with most every other people, or groups of people they come in contact with, ... never even suspecting that there might be rich substance beyond form. |
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I love OBamas eloquence and intelligence. Faith and works are supposed to be a choice, even in the Bible. It cannot not be politically enforced but political values and biblical values can often coincide. We do still proclaim to be a nation under God so from a faith perspective we should honor his word if we expect his blessings,,but that is an individual decision and not a government one. It is a decision which a majority of individuals can support or refuse, which is the beauty of choice , democracy, and faith. There is not one of Gods laws which conflicts with mans laws but many of mans have conflicted with Gods. I hope for people everywhere to be blessed and in the end, our works (whether we attribute them to politics, religion, or some 'common good') will dictate our 'consequences'. WOW!!! Talk of an ideological 'tug-of-war'!!! This planet, and the human race, among other phenomenons living upon it, are not going to survive 'bible-in-errancy-christian-fundamentalist' SUPREMACY!!! We will live by 'UNIVERSAL' (not biblical in-errant exclusive) values, and yes, 'love your neighbor as you would yourself' is one of those, but so are some Hindu, Muslim, Buddhist, and non-religious universal statements and values of predilection. We did not disagree :). As a christian I live a dualistic life , I have dual citizenship if you will,,,both a christian and an american , both of God and of the world. I agree that government is not church of vice versa, but as a Christian both elements are constantly under consideration in my decisions. There is no conflict, for me, because there is no following of my faith which runs the risk of opposing the laws of government. My highest authority is God, and even his word tells me to be respectful of the government and laws of the land unless they COMPEL me to disobey his word. Fair enough 'msharmony' !!! ;) |
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Edited by
voileazur
on
Tue 03/02/10 07:28 AM
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I love OBamas eloquence and intelligence. Faith and works are supposed to be a choice, even in the Bible. It cannot not be politically enforced but political values and biblical values can often coincide. We do still proclaim to be a nation under God so from a faith perspective we should honor his word if we expect his blessings,,but that is an individual decision and not a government one. It is a decision which a majority of individuals can support or refuse, which is the beauty of choice , democracy, and faith. There is not one of Gods laws which conflicts with mans laws but many of mans have conflicted with Gods. I hope for people everywhere to be blessed and in the end, our works (whether we attribute them to politics, religion, or some 'common good') will dictate our 'consequences'. WOW!!! 'msharmony, talk of an ideological 'tug-of-war'!!! This planet, and the human race, among other phenomenons living upon it, are not going to survive 'bible-in-errancy-christian-fundamentalist' SUPREMACY!!! We will live by 'UNIVERSAL' (not biblical in-errant exclusive) values, and yes, 'love your neighbor as you would yourself' is one of those, but so are some Hindu, Muslim, Buddhist, and non-religious universal statements and values of predilection. |
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Edited by
voileazur
on
Tue 03/02/10 07:14 AM
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It never fails to amaze me how much whining and complaing I hear from the left and the liberals any time anyone attempts to take away their right to free speech.But yet you have Rush who is only speaking his mind(like it or not)and now it's a wonderful thing he nearly died simply because you can not stand his views.There is a ton of people I can not stomach to listen to no matter what they have to say but I don't rejoice when they nearly die.Just because they have political views different from yours that doesn't mean they may not have lots of common ground with you on other issues.The freedom of free speech is a wonderful thing in this country.It keeps balance and equality with people who have opposing views.I know when I listen to the radio stations I am always happy to hear one radio station who is conservative and one that is liberal.I know if they were all liberal or all conservative it would only lead to a huge mess and a lot of anger and hate. It's a free country people.You don't like what Rush has to say then don't listen to him.I can't stand Howard stern and I don't like the man but I know a lot of people do and it's really none of my business to play God and wish that he dies soon.You people that wish that Rush dies soon only show your true colors towards a society with out free speech or freedom of thought.If Rush offended you go cry to Obama you momma and tell him you want him kicked off the air so you can have your liberal only talk shows that the majority of Americans can't stomach for more than ten minutes. Calm down 'thomas3474'!!! No one here REALLY wishes ill or arm to any one else. It is naive and hypocritical to suggest otherwise i your comments. Second degree filters are essential in weighing people's words and their true intent when we afford the freedom to speak their mind. If you are such a lover and defender of 'freedom of speech' like most everyone in the western world, why would dissenting voices from what you claim to be YOUR BIASES, '... never fail to amaze you...'!?!?!?! Be consistent with your 'freedom of speech' conviction, and celebrate it every time you come across dissenting and contradicting opinions and views. I must disagree with you Mr. V...............it is a well known fact that certain "groups" of individuals do wish harm to others, and specifically to Rush Limbaugh as he poses a threat to the agenda of those who oppose Rush. And, after reading through this post, I am thoroughly convinced that when certain people wished harm on Rush Limbaugh, they certainly meant what they said. Please, do not offend us by attempting to convince us that we are naieve............NOR should we have to "FILTER" through anything and play mind readers. When individuals make a statement, it is naturally and legitimately considered that statement to be of their true belief and intent. Dear 'Lady Lindyy', You obviously have an opinion, and appear to be in full agreement with it!!! That is good! Unfortunately, reality and the 'annoying' line-up of facts show little sympathy for your position. Whether YOU, or many others, might believe in '... one's statement to be naturally and legitimately their true belief and intent...', ... in an overwhelming majority of instances, action doesn't follow, thereby contradicting the 'first degree' nature of the statement!!! If we were to prosecute everyone on their statements alone 'Dear Lady Lindyy', we wouldn't be living in a 'free' North America. Rush Limbaugh, along with his supporters, AND DETRACTORS, live and thrive inside a 'freedom of speech' paradigm !!! I'm afraid your argument is severely inaccurate. Here are some statements heard often, which shouldn't be taken literally... : "... I could just wring the neck of those little monsters..." "... Why did I ever have children..." "... I wish I could just be on a desert island, away from it all..." "... We should all send them back where they come from..." The list goes on... Hate to break it to you 'Lady Lindyy', but if you didn't exercise your own 'first degree' filter daily, and took most statements made 'with a grain of salt', you wouldn't be posting on these forums with the rest of us. You would be working for a 'gestapo' like fascist police, denouncing and prosecuting the whole bunch of us!!! |
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Edited by
voileazur
on
Tue 03/02/10 06:27 AM
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'... we are no longer a 'christian nation', or at least '...JUST a christian nation ...' '... even if we were to expel all 'non-christian' from America, ... who's particular view of christianity would we teach: 'James Dobson's or Al Sharp's???...' (or then again, catholic, or evangelical, etc.) '... Democracy demands that the religiously motivated translate their concern into UNIVERSAL, rather than religious specific ...' '... this requires that their proposal be subject to arguments, and amenable to reason. ... this is difficult for those whom believe in the in-errancy of the bible (a word-for-word personal interpretation of the bible)...' For those whom might jump at this 'Youtube' with indignation, ... THINK FIRST!!! The christian evangelical, and the christian fundamentalist propositions have only spread hatred, divisiveness, irrational fear of others, and implosive destruction!!! A sure-bet societal 'dead-end'. Open minded, and 'good faith' Christians of the USA, along with their brothers and sisters of all other beliefs, as well as non-belief, are most certainly capable of speaking-up, transcending the barbarian and primitive nature of fundamentalists propositions, and reaching for that which UNITES, rather than that which ETERNALLY DIVIDES!! |
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Topic:
The Current Situation
Edited by
voileazur
on
Mon 03/01/10 12:02 PM
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last time I looked...he was in the Senate voting for every piece of spending legislation...inherited this mess ?...he helped create it !!...when Bush left office...the budget deficit his last year was $454 billion...and...unemployment stood at 6%...now...$1.4 trillion and 10%...Obama has been a fuggin disaster...and...ALL the polls show this...my copy and paste friend... 
The accuracy and objectivity of this post are truly remarkable!!! Sounds like the old story of the dark skinned person attempting to stop the white guy from steeling a car, just when the cops arrived on scene. Guess which of the white or dark skinned guy was taken straight to the pen??? |
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Topic:
haters....
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great post, i have had the same question. If you do not believe in our great and holy God that is your choice. But why do you non believers try to insult us that believe in God? What do you have to gain by being crude to us? Live and let live. We as christians don't gain anything by spreading God's word. It's not like we'll get virgins in heaven for teaching people of God's word, nor a palace will more gold and prizes for doing as such. We are spreading God's word and trying to convert you for exactly that, YOU. Has nothing to do with gaining anything for us. And we don't go around claiming you to be stupid, idiotic, a retard, or anything of such just because you do not believe in the great God. 'cowboy', if your game is to preach, 'spread' your 'god's word, and make the divine sale by converting 'us', ASK 'US' PERMISSION FIRST!!! This is a public space where people come to discuss religion in general, all religions, and all views. No one comes here to be preached to, have your word of your god spread onto them, or have some sort of conversion act performed unto them. If that is your thing, then respect the forum rules, and conduct yourself with integrity. Simply ask for those whom would like to have your word of your 'god' spread onto them, with the goal of conversion, and invite them to the 'christian forums' !!! Conversely, if you insist on participating in the 'general religious chat' threads, stop 'spreading', 'preaching', and pushing conversion acts, and engage sincerely in the debate at hand. Fair?!? |
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Topic:
haters....
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how many take offense at Christians today? Just curious... there seems to be a lot of haters for those that believe in Jesus... and alot of disrespect... I am not about to get into why this or that with some you because I realize now that some of you do not have the faith that is needed to believe in the Holy God amd His Son. I am not ashamed to be a Christian. The NT does says if you lift up Jesus all men will be drawn unto you. With the title of your thread, and the opening question of your OP, it would appear that you come with a pre-existing view and judgment, and that little anyone might say, could change your mind, your view or your judgment. I hope I am wrong. But nonetheless, IMO, people react to a tone of condescension and pontificating, an attitude which, while it may very well be unconscious and unintentional on your part, comes across in spades through your post. 'singmesweet' pointed to the 'preaching' tone earlier, which is very much on the same line. I think the gratuitous 'christian bashing' accusations are unfounded and self-serving. It is a tad too easy, and it stops those making the accusation, from being responsible for their own 'blind spots' when they engage in discussions with 'pre-loaded' conclusions about others. |
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It never fails to amaze me how much whining and complaing I hear from the left and the liberals any time anyone attempts to take away their right to free speech.But yet you have Rush who is only speaking his mind(like it or not)and now it's a wonderful thing he nearly died simply because you can not stand his views.There is a ton of people I can not stomach to listen to no matter what they have to say but I don't rejoice when they nearly die.Just because they have political views different from yours that doesn't mean they may not have lots of common ground with you on other issues.The freedom of free speech is a wonderful thing in this country.It keeps balance and equality with people who have opposing views.I know when I listen to the radio stations I am always happy to hear one radio station who is conservative and one that is liberal.I know if they were all liberal or all conservative it would only lead to a huge mess and a lot of anger and hate. It's a free country people.You don't like what Rush has to say then don't listen to him.I can't stand Howard stern and I don't like the man but I know a lot of people do and it's really none of my business to play God and wish that he dies soon.You people that wish that Rush dies soon only show your true colors towards a society with out free speech or freedom of thought.If Rush offended you go cry to Obama you momma and tell him you want him kicked off the air so you can have your liberal only talk shows that the majority of Americans can't stomach for more than ten minutes. Calm down 'thomas3474'!!! No one here REALLY wishes ill or arm to any one else. It is naive and hypocritical to suggest otherwise i your comments. Second degree filters are essential in weighing people's words and their true intent when we afford the freedom to speak their mind. If you are such a lover and defender of 'freedom of speech' like most everyone in the western world, why would dissenting voices from what you claim to be YOUR BIASES, '... never fail to amaze you...'!?!?!?! Be consistent with your 'freedom of speech' conviction, and celebrate it every time you come across dissenting and contradicting opinions and views. |
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Topic:
Why fear God?
Edited by
voileazur
on
Mon 03/01/10 06:53 AM
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I dont know what Gods final plan will be,, there are many conditions put before us leading up to Armegeddon and I dont know if, like Adam and Eve, there is some alternative ending that may occur if those conditions arent met. This is the scary part!!! '... there are many conditions put before us leading up to Armegeddon...' Believe what you may!!! But when a large enough minority starts confusing a belief in some fuzzy form of Armageddon, a belief they can't even explain clearly, and confuse it with reality, THOSE PEOPLE start influencing reality. Nothing to do with 'god'. Everything to do with man's blind primitive and ideological nature. To act like a zombie, ... suggesting that 'god's will, as stated in the book of fables, involves a 'BLOODBATH' in the zero of the sacred land, ... which itself, precedes a 'fabled - second coming', and using those fables to justify ... one's active participation in condoning the Israelo position in the Isrealo-Palestinian conflict, ... supporting the US military sponsoring of Isreal, ... the invasion and control of Arab nations for their resources, ... and suggesting that Muslims are 'evil', unless they agree with the christian fundamentalist dogma, That represents the most potentially dangerous challenge the human race has ever faced, having to deal with the 'zero sum delusion' of the christian fundamentalist crusaders. The more christian fundamentalists are going to claim that all those whom don't agree with their views are 'EVIL' and wrong, the more those made wrong are going to react. And in the case of Muslims, the fundamentalist chapter of that greoup, is going to shout equally hard that it is christians that are all wrong. How else does anyone expects them to react to such childish attacks founded on pure delusion??? Forget all those complicated 'bible fables' here. Forget armageddon. What we have here is a juvenile and primitive century old '... you're wrong! No, you're wrong!!!...' school yard brawl!!! God's plan!!! Give us a break. This is nothing other than the most basic, primitive, tribal and barbaric man-made fiasco!!! Where a minority of christian fundamentalist fanatics actually cheer for this 'LUNY' Armageddon, ... whatever their confused understanding of the concept might be. may God be with you my friend. Just want you to know, whatever this world has done to turn you away from God and or make you a rough kind of person, that i love you and wish you the best in life and God be with you my friend. ROUGH KIND OF PERSON!!! Wow 'cowboy'!!! You really have no clue!!! Get to know a person 'at least', before 'judging'. - You and 'msharmony' are promoting and encouraging your 'god's plan of a 'BLOODBATH'. - You both insinuate that this would be 'good', since it would accelerate your ascension to heaven (the chosen ones only of course). - Furthermore, 'msharmony', finding this 'god-bloodbath' plan perfectly normal and logical, starts 'seeing' corollaries in reality, she writes : '... I dont know what Gods final plan will be, there are many conditions put before us leading up to Armegeddon...'. And you call me the 'ROUGH KIND OF PERSON'!?!?! In this thread, you and 'msharmony' give the impression that you are so intoxicated with this 'future life with your god', that you've lost all respect, all hope, and all trust in the human race and in life itself here on earth. 'Love your neighbor as you would yourself!!!'. If I were to suscribe to anything christian, that would be it. And you see, without YOUR GOD, that is what I believe in. I stand for human beings rising above this primitive and barbaric nature which could only end in 'bloodbaths'. I believe without any proof for it, that decent and loving christian, jews, muslims, and atheists of all walks, will prevail over the 'ROUGH KIND' of 'ARMAGEDDON' obsessed lost christians, jews and muslims. That the enlightened ones, will peacefully reason with the obsessed ones against building more housing in Jerusalem east, which would make any talks for reconciliation and peace most unlikely. If your 'god' is waiting for anything at all, that would be what it is waiting for: 'man having found a way to truly trust, and love, and care for each other' on this earth. May the love, the serenity, and the wisdom which lives in all of us humans, on this earth, be with YOU 'cowboy'. Without those, for which we humans are 100% responsible, a 'god' of any description can't help you my friend. P.S.: 'ROUGH KIND OF PERSON'!!! My grandkids would give you a real 'rough' time over that one! You really should refrain from pontificating and hypocritical statements such as 'may god be with you' and 'I'll pray for you'. It doesn't forward your nobler intents. Besides, I am already blessed, and wish for no 'god' of yours, nor for your prayers. Neither are offered in earnest anyhow. |
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Topic:
Why fear God?
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I dont know what Gods final plan will be,, there are many conditions put before us leading up to Armegeddon and I dont know if, like Adam and Eve, there is some alternative ending that may occur if those conditions arent met. This is the scary part!!! '... there are many conditions put before us leading up to Armegeddon...' Believe what you may!!! But when a large enough minority starts confusing a belief in some fuzzy form of Armageddon, a belief they can't even explain clearly, and confuse it with reality, THOSE PEOPLE start influencing reality. Nothing to do with 'god'. Everything to do with man's blind primitive and ideological nature. To act like a zombie, ... suggesting that 'god's will, as stated in the book of fables, involves a 'BLOODBATH' in the zero of the sacred land, ... which itself, precedes a 'fabled - second coming', and using those fables to justify ... one's active participation in condoning the Israelo position in the Isrealo-Palestinian conflict, ... supporting the US military sponsoring of Isreal, ... the invasion and control of Arab nations for their resources, ... and suggesting that Muslims are 'evil', unless they agree with the christian fundamentalist dogma, That represents the most potentially dangerous challenge the human race has ever faced, having to deal with the 'zero sum delusion' of the christian fundamentalist crusaders. The more christian fundamentalists are going to claim that all those whom don't agree with their views are 'EVIL' and wrong, the more those made wrong are going to react. And in the case of Muslims, the fundamentalist chapter of that greoup, is going to shout equally hard that it is christians that are all wrong. How else does anyone expects them to react to such childish attacks founded on pure delusion??? Forget all those complicated 'bible fables' here. Forget armageddon. What we have here is a juvenile and primitive century old '... you're wrong! No, you're wrong!!!...' school yard brawl!!! God's plan!!! Give us a break. This is nothing other than the most basic, primitive, tribal and barbaric man-made fiasco!!! Where a minority of christian fundamentalist fanatics actually cheer for this 'LUNY' Armageddon, ... whatever their confused understanding of the concept might be. |
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