I bet an interesting study would be to see if you could look back over the history of this country (US) and find the period of time where Christianity began to really get a foothold into American politics. I would state that this nation was founded on the concepts of Deism and as smiless mentioned, at least our first three presidents were Freemasons and Deists.

So when did the change occur? It must have happened within the voting citizenry at some point. It was decided that if you aren't a Christian, you wont be getting my vote so that caused a shift in how candidates for the presidency would present themselves to the public because they knew they needed that seat regardless of how they felt about the matter of religion personally.

I know that President Kennedy was almost not elected due to the fact that he was a Catholic and that threw the Christian population into an absolute panic.

Yep me to. "Slaughterhouse Five" and "Cat's Cradle" were a couple favorites. He was so modest. He never considered himself a worthwhile writer. Brilliant man he was.

I think the only reason there has been a recent historical bias towards conservative Christians and their political agenda in this country is because that has traditionally been the rationale that has afforded them their candidacy and place in office. McCain had them from the word go. They voted for senator McCain because he wasnt Obama in fact. Its not that Barack Obama is "pro-Atheist". He is simply a highly educated man and comparably liberal when you place him next to our past Republican leaders. So yes, we will see the conservative right and their political leanings come to a stand still and some of the more liberal policies steam ahead for the next 8 years. Hopefully 8 unless Obama screws something up foul and I doubt that will occur.

Have you noticed there is a Mormon guy on the latest Survivor? He's gonna have to move someplace less "Mormony" after he's done with that show I bet.

Yes I agree. I tend to believe in the concept of Polarity which insists that we ALL possess both elements of "good" and "evil" within us. So its a similar concept to the "Ying and Yang." Light and darkness. Many religions tend to force the doctrine of "duality" which is to say utter complete good exists (god) and more specifically their god. And then utter and complete evil which is labeled as "Satan." Or at least he's responsible for it in some respect. That little cloven hoofed one.

I tend to have a hard time with that and find Polarity much easier and more complete.

I think the actual "founding" of Wicca is debated to some degree and bottom line it would appear to be an earth based spirituality with its roots firmly placed in much older Pagan beliefs and therefore predating Christianity. Witchcraft is even older.

I feel that we will probably see a steady decline in the big three world religions, those being Christianity, Judaism and Islam. Statistically, you can already see this happening in the US, with Christianity's membership falling by approximately a percentage point per year. However I dont think you can arbitrarily determine a specific date and time when we no longer will have these organized religions. It will probably be a more of a "lessening of their overall influence" on the masses that occurs with time.

Yes and so was Benjamin Franklin I do believe. Of course we only have their statements to go on but that seems to be where the majority of the evidence leans. Ben Franklin was a scientist also so that would make sense. I watched a film called "Religulous" just recently and it also discusses this issue in one brief section. Its a documentary.

He was one of several Deists who were responsible for establishing this nation.

Oh no, I had this "Clockwork Orange" flashback.

I agree. I have recently been exploring Humanism as a philosophy and way of life and it makes a great deal of practical sense. It also is somewhat of a threat to organized religion. Kurt Vonnegut, the famous novelist was an Atheist and a Humanist up until the point that he died. Vonnegut was descended from a family of German freethinkers, who were skeptical of "conventional religious beliefs". He had this to say about it which has stuck with me in its powerful impact time and time again.

“I am a humanist,” he said, “which means, in part, that I have tried to behave decently without expectations of rewards or punishment after I am dead.”

Hi all. I thought some of you might be interested in this (though you probably already know). I found it here:

http://www.religioustolerance.org/easter1.htm


Easter
Its Pagan origins

Origins of the name "Easter":

The name "Easter" originated with the names of an ancient Goddess and God. The Venerable Bede, (672-735 CE.) a Christian scholar, first asserted in his book De Ratione Temporum that Easter was named after Eostre (a.k.a. Eastre). She was the Great Mother Goddess of the Saxon people in Northern Europe. Similarly, the "Teutonic dawn goddess of fertility [was] known variously as Ostare, Ostara, Ostern, Eostra, Eostre, Eostur, Eastra, Eastur, Austron and Ausos." 1 Her name was derived from the ancient word for spring: "eastre." Similar Goddesses were known by other names in ancient cultures around the Mediterranean, and were celebrated in the springtime. Some were:

Aphrodite from ancient Cyprus
Ashtoreth from ancient Israel
Astarté from ancient Greece
Demeter from Mycenae
Hathor from ancient Egypt
Ishtar from Assyria
Kali, from India
Ostara a Norse Goddess of fertility.

An alternative explanation has been suggested. The name given by the Frankish church to Jesus' resurrection festival included the Latin word "alba" which means "white." (This was a reference to the white robes that were worn during the festival.) "Alba" also has a second meaning: "sunrise." When the name of the festival was translated into German, the "sunrise" meaning was selected in error. This became "ostern" in German. Ostern has been proposed as the origin of the word "Easter".

There are two popular beliefs about the origin of the English word "Sunday." It is derived from the name of the Scandinavian sun Goddess Sunna (a.k.a. Sunne, Frau Sonne).
It is derived from "Sol," the Roman God of the Sun." Their phrase "Dies Solis" means "day of the Sun." The Christian saint Jerome commented "If it is called the day of the sun by the pagans, we willingly accept this name, for on this day the Light of the world arose, on this day the Sun of Justice shone forth."

Pagan origins of Easter:
Many, perhaps most, Pagan religions in the Mediterranean area had a major seasonal day of religious celebration at or following the Spring Equinox. Cybele, the Phrygian fertility goddess, had a fictional consort who was believed to have been born via a virgin birth. He was Attis, who was believed to have died and been resurrected each year during the period MAR-22 to MAR-25. "About 200 B.C. mystery cults began to appear in Rome just as they had earlier in Greece. Most notable was the Cybele cult centered on Vatican hill ...Associated with the Cybele cult was that of her lover, Attis (the older Tammuz, Osiris, Dionysus, or Orpheus under a new name). He was a god of ever-reviving vegetation. Born of a virgin, he died and was reborn annually. The festival began as a day of blood on Black Friday and culminated after three days in a day of rejoicing over the resurrection."

Wherever Christian worship of Jesus and Pagan worship of Attis were active in the same geographical area in ancient times, Christians "used to celebrate the death and resurrection of Jesus on the same date; and pagans and Christians used to quarrel bitterly about which of their gods was the true prototype and which the imitation."

Many religious historians believe that the death and resurrection legends were first associated with Attis, many centuries before the birth of Jesus. They were simply grafted onto stories of Jesus' life in order to make Christian theology more acceptable to Pagans. Others suggest that many of the events in Jesus' life that were recorded in the gospels were lifted from the life of Krishna, the second person of the Hindu Trinity. Ancient Christians had an alternative explanation; they claimed that Satan had created counterfeit deities in advance of the coming of Christ in order to confuse humanity. Modern-day Christians generally regard the Attis legend as being a Pagan myth of little value. They regard Jesus' death and resurrection account as being true, and unrelated to the earlier tradition.

Wiccans and other modern-day Neopagans continue to celebrate the Spring Equinox as one of their 8 yearly Sabbats (holy days of celebration). Near the Mediterranean, this is a time of sprouting of the summer's crop; farther north, it is the time for seeding. Their rituals at the Spring Equinox are related primarily to the fertility of the crops and to the balance of the day and night times. Where Wiccans can safely celebrate the Sabbat out of doors without threat of religious persecution, they often incorporate a bonfire into their rituals, jumping over the dying embers is believed to assure fertility of people and crops.

tentacle (I remember at science camp I had meant to say tentacle and I said testicle... )

succumbing

trajectory

veering

Not me. Im not psychic to that extent. I have gotten that weird feeling like Im being followed or watched but I dont think thats quite the same thing. Or maybe it is? Thats almost like a 6th sense kind of feeling. Perhaps almost a self preservation instinct to help protect you from harm. Ya know like the "something just aint right" feeling?

Getting back on the topic of dreams and dreaming, do you ever have noises or things from the waking world creep into your dreams? Like say you are in REM stage but your clock radio goes off and the music enters the dream in some sort of context? I had that happen about two days ago. Its very strange. Since the song kind of reminded me of a person from the past, there they were in the dream. It was most pleasant but then my cat jumped on my head and that was the end of it.

tunnel

nagging