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Topic: Is "Success" of US Surge in Iraq About to Unravel?
Dragoness's photo
Tue 03/25/08 07:39 AM
Edited by Dragoness on Tue 03/25/08 07:39 AM
Is "Success" of US Surge in Iraq About to Unravel?
By Leila Fadel and Nancy A. Youssef
McClatchy Newspapers

Monday 24 March 2008





Baghdad - A cease-fire critical to the improved security situation in Iraq appeared to unravel Monday when a militia loyal to radical Shiite Muslim cleric Muqtada al Sadr began shutting down neighborhoods in west Baghdad and issuing demands of the central government.

Simultaneously, in the strategic southern port city of Basra, where Sadr's Mahdi militia is in control, the Iraqi government launched a crackdown in the face of warnings by Sadr's followers that they'll fight government forces if any Sadrists are detained. By 1 a.m. Arab satellite news channels reported clashes between the Mahdi Army and police in Basra.

The freeze on offensive activity by Sadr's Mahdi Army has been a major factor behind the recent drop in violence in Iraq, and there were fears that the confrontation that's erupted in Baghdad and Basra could end the lull in attacks, assassinations, kidnappings and bombings.

As the U.S. military recorded its 4,000th death in Iraq, U.S. officials in Baghdad warned again Monday that drawing down troops too quickly could collapse Iraq's fragile security situation.

Pentagon officials said that military leaders are watching for any signs of backsliding as they consider whether to keep drawing down troops below pre-surge levels.

President Bush spoke about the death toll, saying, "One day, people will look back at this moment in history and say, 'Thank God there were courageous people willing to serve, because they laid the foundations for peace for generations to come.'"

Even as he spoke, the situation on the ground was rapidly worsening.

On Sunday, a barrage of at least 17 rockets hit the heavily fortified Green Zone and surrounding neighborhoods, where both the U.S. and Iraqi government headquarters are housed, according to police. Most of them were launched from the outskirts of Sadr City and Bayaa, both Mahdi Army-controlled neighborhoods.

On Monday, the Sadrists all but shut down the neighborhoods they control on the west bank of Baghdad. Gunmen went to stores and ordered them to close as militiamen stood in the streets. Mosques used their loudspeakers to urge people to come forward and join the protest.

Fliers were distributed with the Sadrists' three demands of the Iraqi government: to release detainees, stop targeting Sadrist members and apologize to the families and the tribal sheiks of the men.

The Iraqi security forces issued a statement promising to deal with those who terrorized shopkeepers and students.

"It's an open sit-in until the government responds to our demands. If the government doesn't respond, we will have our own procedures," said Hamdallah al Rikabi, the head of the Sadr offices in Karkh, in western Baghdad.

In the southern port city of Basra, where Shiite groups are battling for power, the Mahdi Army is the most feared force. The British military pulled out of the city late last year, leaving the city in the militia's hands.

The Iraqi government announced a three-day security plan, beginning 5 p.m. Tuesday, to seal Basra off from other governorates and countries, shut down schools and all institutes of education and ban vehicles from entering the province. Prime Minister Nouri al Maliki, as well as the ministers of defense and interior, were in Basra on Monday.

Since Sadr froze his militia on Aug. 29 and renewed the freeze in February, militia members and Sadrists have railed against the government for targeting and detaining their members. In Basra, Sadr's office rejected the security plan and warned that it'll react if attacked or if Iraqi forces detain more Sadrists.

As Shiite violence rises, U.S. troop deaths also appear to be rising in places such as Baghdad, where the American military is thinning out its presence as part of its drawdown of five brigades. Attacks against civilians in the capital are rising, according to statistics compiled by McClatchy. Next week, the U.S. will finish pulling out the second of five surge brigades. As part of the drawdown, the military has moved battalions out of Baghdad toward more violent areas such as the northern city of Mosul and Iraq's northeastern Diyala province.

As the troop presence has shifted, so has the violence. For the first time since January, a majority of U.S. troops were killed in Baghdad, not in outlying northern provinces. Indeed, the U.S. military reached the death of its 4,000th soldier in Iraq on Sunday, when four U.S. soldiers were killed in southern Baghdad.

So far, this month, 27 soldiers have been killed in Iraq. Of those, 16, or 59 percent, died in Baghdad. In January, 25 percent of U.S. deaths happened in Baghdad, or 10 of 40.

Civilian casualties in Baghdad are also on the rise, according to a McClatchy count. After a record low through November, when at least 76 people were killed and 306 were injured, the deaths began to rise. In December, it crept up to 88 people killed, in January 100 and in February 172. As of March 24, at least 149 people were killed and 448 were injured.

--------

Youssef reported from Washington. McClatchy special correspondents Laith Hammoudi reported from Baghdad and Ali al Basri reported from Basra.




no photo
Tue 03/25/08 08:01 AM
this is soon going to be the reality i am, living. I hope america is listening closley for my fellow soldiers and my fate are in the hands of the voters.

Dragoness's photo
Tue 03/25/08 08:05 AM

this is soon going to be the reality i am, living. I hope america is listening closley for my fellow soldiers and my fate are in the hands of the voters.


Some of us are listeningflowerforyou

no photo
Tue 03/25/08 10:52 AM
ssshhh!!! Bush isn't the only one listeninglaugh

the terroist are stepping up their attacks from what they are hearing. Save a soldier/Shut UP

Please don't respond by cutting and pasting 3 million lines citing studies which find fault with such.

Just give your opinion yes or no and a simple reason why or why not.

Fanta46's photo
Tue 03/25/08 12:12 PM

ssshhh!!! Bush isn't the only one listeninglaugh

the terroist are stepping up their attacks from what they are hearing. Save a soldier/Shut UP

Please don't respond by cutting and pasting 3 million lines citing studies which find fault with such.

Just give your opinion yes or no and a simple reason why or why not.
laugh laugh laugh laugh laugh

Fanta46's photo
Tue 03/25/08 12:15 PM
Thats the first time Ive heard Bush's failures placed on the shoulders of a common poster!!!laugh laugh

Definitely original!!

Its all your fault Dragoness!!!smokin
I never knew you welded such power and influence!!laugh laugh laugh laugh laugh laugh

Drivinmenutz's photo
Tue 03/25/08 01:12 PM
hey....i think he was telling about the population in general. Certain talks do encourage fighting... Like, any talk about troops leaving, or people getting angry about deaths of civilians, etc. Feeds their morality. But, as long as information isn't preached there is nothing wrong with posting an article or two. But i do encourage a neutral perspective.

no photo
Tue 03/25/08 01:17 PM
Edited by crickstergo on Tue 03/25/08 01:26 PM
On the contrary, I know that negative news releases and opinion polls embolden the enemy. News isn't news unless it's negative.
Negative news is controversial so you get sensationalism!!!
Because of that, the news is often times overstated. The only official poll is our elections. All other polls have no exactness - all a person has to do is answer either with thought or without thought. And there you have the error. But when a person goes to vote it's official - with thought and identification which leads to seriousness.

Sorry you missed the joke - it had nothing to do with Bush's so called failures and all to do with our enemies in Iraq being emboldened by negative news and opinions that they are listening to.

no photo
Tue 03/25/08 01:23 PM

Please don't respond by cutting and pasting 3 million lines citing studies which find fault with such.

Just give your opinion yes or no and a simple reason why or why not.


Dragon forming an original opinion and doing other than cut/paste drivel has proven beyond her capabilities. Almost leads me to think that she actually may delude herself that by doing the massive cut/paste that she somehow become an 'intellectual' and all-knowing on the subjects.
Too bad she hasn't a clue as to the people, native and foreign, who occupy the sandy area she laments about.

Seems her life is devoted to being a mindless robot who can only regurgitate someone else chewed up seconds.

no photo
Tue 03/25/08 01:24 PM
Drivin - my response was to Fanta. WOW. I have a big big problem with news on troop leaving when that is reported.

Fanta46's photo
Tue 03/25/08 01:58 PM
Edited by Fanta46 on Tue 03/25/08 02:01 PM
Let us keep it in the sphere of reality gentlemen.drinker

The surge worked,

because one of the most powerful armed groups in Iraq,
which offers both protection and social welfare services to impoverished Shiites,
(duties that the US sponsered Iraqi gov wont.)
Even though we pay them with the green! (taxes)

Called a cease-fire at the same time,
the surge began!

The cease-fire has reduced those attacks and roadside bombings against U.S. troops.

This in its self should tell us that;
A) The surge didnt really work, and
B) The enemy in Iraq, mainly comes from Iraqi Nationals, and not from Al'Quieda, as Bush would have you believe!

(turn that around in your mind with all the propoganda!)

Personally, I think we should have Muqtada Al-Sadr on our side, It appears that he is the closest thing to a true leader in Iraq!
Plenty capable of leading his country in a direction the Iraqi's want to follow! (not us)

And we can bring our boys home!
drinker


Dragoness's photo
Tue 03/25/08 02:03 PM

ssshhh!!! Bush isn't the only one listeninglaugh

the terroist are stepping up their attacks from what they are hearing. Save a soldier/Shut UP

Please don't respond by cutting and pasting 3 million lines citing studies which find fault with such.

Just give your opinion yes or no and a simple reason why or why not.


Fearmonger brainwash working much??noway noway

Dragoness's photo
Tue 03/25/08 02:04 PM

Thats the first time Ive heard Bush's failures placed on the shoulders of a common poster!!!laugh laugh

Definitely original!!

Its all your fault Dragoness!!!smokin
I never knew you welded such power and influence!!laugh laugh laugh laugh laugh laugh



noway laugh laugh laugh laugh laugh flowerforyou

Dragoness's photo
Tue 03/25/08 02:06 PM

Let us keep it in the sphere of reality gentlemen.drinker

The surge worked,

because one of the most powerful armed groups in Iraq,
which offers both protection and social welfare services to impoverished Shiites,
(duties that the US sponsered Iraqi gov wont.)
Even though we pay them with the green! (taxes)

Called a cease-fire at the same time,
the surge began!

The cease-fire has reduced those attacks and roadside bombings against U.S. troops.

This in its self should tell us that;
A) The surge didnt really work, and
B) The enemy in Iraq, mainly comes from Iraqi Nationals, and not from Al'Quieda, as Bush would have you believe!

(turn that around in your mind with all the propoganda!)

Personally, I think we should have Muqtada Al-Sadr on our side, It appears that he is the closest thing to a true leader in Iraq!
Plenty capable of leading his country in a direction the Iraqi's want to follow! (not us)

And we can bring our boys home!
drinker





drinker drinker drinker flowerforyou

no photo
Tue 03/25/08 04:20 PM

On the contrary, I know that negative news releases and opinion polls embolden the enemy. News isn't news unless it's negative.
Negative news is controversial so you get sensationalism!!!
Because of that, the news is often times overstated. The only official poll is our elections. All other polls have no exactness - all a person has to do is answer either with thought or without thought. And there you have the error. But when a person goes to vote it's official - with thought and identification which leads to seriousness.

Sorry you missed the joke - it had nothing to do with Bush's so called failures and all to do with our enemies in Iraq being emboldened by negative news and opinions that they are listening to.


The article call Sadr a "radical" - he is just another Saddam

Fanta46's photo
Tue 03/25/08 04:26 PM
Edited by Fanta46 on Tue 03/25/08 04:26 PM


On the contrary, I know that negative news releases and opinion polls embolden the enemy. News isn't news unless it's negative.
Negative news is controversial so you get sensationalism!!!
Because of that, the news is often times overstated. The only official poll is our elections. All other polls have no exactness - all a person has to do is answer either with thought or without thought. And there you have the error. But when a person goes to vote it's official - with thought and identification which leads to seriousness.

Sorry you missed the joke - it had nothing to do with Bush's so called failures and all to do with our enemies in Iraq being emboldened by negative news and opinions that they are listening to.


The article call Sadr a "radical" - he is just another Saddam



Of course,
thats what Bush wants us to believe!!!

Maybe, hes a patriot whos path for Iraq just happens to conflict with Bush's?

Fanta46's photo
Tue 03/25/08 04:31 PM
sadir
has an army willing to follow him, and if it werent for the US helcopter cover, would probably whip the **** out of the American trained Iraqi puppet Army!

Dragoness's photo
Tue 03/25/08 04:52 PM
Well, and it goes even deeper than that.

One issue is the armies we are training are already associated with one of the feuding sects there. So basically we are training the future warriors that will fight each other after we leave. Does it matter when we leave, no, they will fight each other after we are gone.

Basically all we did was bomb the hell out of them, kill up a bunch of them and us, and train the future warriors that will fight each other whenever they get the chance.

This information comes from the people there, not me. I just listen.

Sadr is a force to be reckoned with there and he will be now and when we leave. Whether he will topple the government we put in place, who knows, whether he will be better than Saddam, who knows.

We cannot establish a democracy in a country that does not function democratically. This country functions on brute force and power.

They understand perfectly what we did to them, it has been done to them for as far back as they can remember. They will outlast us and they will go back to what they know. We cannot change that, nor can we stop them from battling themselves for power.

I have said this since the beginning and I will say it again. If we were battling terrorism then we would have battled united with all other nations and the battlefield would have been the world. Not one country. We would have intellectually and financially disemboweled the terrorist organizations and we would have hunted them down with the help of all nations.

no photo
Tue 03/25/08 06:09 PM
Edited by crickstergo on Tue 03/25/08 06:11 PM


The article call Sadr a "radical" - he is just another Saddam



Of course,
thats what Bush wants us to believe!!!

Maybe, hes a patriot whos path for Iraq just happens to conflict with Bush's?



Muqtada al-Sadr gained popularity among younger Iraqis following the toppling of the Hussein government by the 2003 invasion of Iraq, mostly owing to his status as his father's son, as he has no formal religious standing to interpret the Koran.

He has declared that the Allawi government is illegitimate, and he refuses to cooperate with them; however, his disapproval waxes and wanes depending on the success of negotiations with the interim government.

WIkipedia


Fanta46's photo
Tue 03/25/08 06:23 PM
And George Washington cut down a cherry Tree!
The British tried numerous times to arrest him for treason.
Im not saying the man is another Washington,
but then again maybe he
is the Iraqi version of him!

The puppet we put there
hides behind a wall in the greeen-Zone,
has little support, no functional army, no functional police force, and has to be protected by American GI"s!

Propoganda is a powerful tool!!

Like Dragon said,
let them choose,
or would you rather have American Patriots die for the government that we want in Iraq?

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